help with coleman basement units

[PCC]

May I butt into this conversation for some cool advice?

To provide A/C to a complete coach, am I hearing you all saying that 4 ton may not be enough?

I have enough power (50Kw, diesel) to run more, so before I decide which units to purchase, and I want them to go underneath, talk to me about how much A/C I will need.

I want to set up an engine driven A/C system for the driver, when travelling alone, or everyone sitting up front. Then I was going to add two basement systems (front & rear) for the balance of the coach.

I am using hot water heat exchanger to heat domestic water (while driving) and for the heating system.

The factory A/C unit is toast (whole wheat), but I do have the components of that system. Should I consider reworking that system for while I am on the road?

This is not my forst conversion, but it is my most important, as it will be used to travel all over the country by people who will want it to be perfect.

Thank you for your advice.

[belfert]

I have enough power (50Kw, diesel) to run more, so before I decide which units to purchase, and I want them to go underneath, talk to

I'm curious why you have a 50KW generator?  What do you use that much power for?

[John316]

I have enough power (50Kw, diesel) to run more, so before I decide which units to purchase, and I want them to go underneath, talk to

I'm curious why you have a 50KW generator?  What do you use that much power for?

Sound system ? 

God bless,

John

[John316]

Ruthi,

We have five 15K roof top, ac's. That is a total of 75K cooling...

I don't think that you would regret having the extra one, other then the space issue. Not to mention, if one goes out, then you have a back up. We could have gone with fewer roof airs, but we figured, why not? There is a reason entertainers have so many. The reason is, redundancy. One goes out, not a problem. Two goes out, no biggie....

BTW, we only carry 80 gallons of fresh, right now. We are going to have another tank made, that will hold 100. We have a total of 300 gallons gray and black (175 gray, 125 black). It has worked very well, so far.

I am not sure if you all have plumbed for this, but you might want to plumb, two water pumps. That way, if one goes out, you have a backup...

Also, what are you doing for a water heater?

FWIW

God bless,

John

[ruthi]

I think we will be alright in the water depart, as it a lot more than we had in the old bus. We are going to have the small 10 gallon hot water. We thought about doing the hot water on demand system to save room. But, we had one of those put in the house, and it took 3 replacements of parts and a new one to get it working right. Now, it works awesome, but we dont want to go through the hassle of that again. We have never had an issue with running out of hot water. I guess we are going to go ahead and install both of the air units. Dont want to regret not getting enough air. We originally wanted to have a spare air, and a spare gen set, so, I guess this will work out. We modified the front of the bus and bumper, so that a gen can go under the front where the spare use to go. To get to it, it slides out forward. This past yr, we had too many problems, so we are trying to cover those basis. Electricity and air are very important. We are only going to have 3 of the original windows in the whole bus, so, no windows to open. We had RV windows put in the gmc, and we hate the leaks and noise that creates. We run the gen. round the clock anyways. We ran ducting in the ceiling for the first air conditioner, so, looks like we will have to run some in the floor for the second. We are trying to keep as much bay space as possible as we need the space for the tools we carry for work. We have a large tool wagon, ladders, paste machine, etc. Sure going to miss the bay space in the gmc.

[ruthi]

BTW John, we have only had one water pump to go out, and that was yrs ago. I can sure deal with that a lot easier than being without air or elec.

[PCC]

To answer the question about the 50Kw diesel generator, add to that John's comment about a sound system (!!), this vehicle is being built to travel as a venue/stage for live concerts and missionary work, so we will need to be able to power a large sound system, lights, and a few more toys that I plan to add to this vehicle for its mission. It is being done as a gift to a number of youth groups who have a desire to get outside the four walls of the building where the people they want to see spend almost all their time.

So this vehicle is being built with the financial assistance of people who see the goal for its conversion (pun intended), but there is another, more direct reason for the size of this generator - it was a steal at under $10,000, and it does fit into the bay directly behind the fuel tank, making the connections fairly simply, other than the exhaust, which I have to run half the length of the coach, and disconnectable, so that I can pull the unit ouot for servicing, and to run it away from the coach, should that ever be needed.

Back though to my advice request - Am I reading that 4 ton A/C may not be enough? Before I place the funds I have budgetted into a system that will prove insufficient, I really need to know.

I hope you all will give me some sound advice on this because I do not want to make a mistake.

Thank you all,

Keith

[Len Silva]

The typical factory air on a bus is about 12 tons.  Everyone says you don't need all that because of no passengers.  I found a number of about 400 btu per hour for a seated person, and times 49 passengers, that's only about 1.6 tons for the passenger load, leaving about 10 tons for everything else.

Just something to think about.

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

The typical factory air on a bus is about 12 tons.  Everyone says you don't need all that because of no passengers.  I found a number of about 400 btu per hour for a seated person, and times 49 passengers, that's only about 1.6 tons for the passenger load, leaving about 10 tons for everything else.

Just something to think about.

Hi Len,

The rest is for the heat load through the windshield and all the air leaks... Lol But it sure works better then anything alse!

[PCC]

So, Nick and Len, are you recommending that I rework the existing A/C (factory) system as my first line of cool, with the basement A/C systems for when not driving?   

That seems to me to become redundant, because if I put enough tonage into the generator powered systems, I can use about the same amount of fuel (maybe a bit more) and have the generator powered systems working even while driving. That would also increase my available driving power for hills, and other driving situations that I may encounter while travelling.

Am I missing something important with my reasoning??

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Hi PCC,

Everybody is different.. I happen to like it cold in my coach while driving. Some only need a little coolness hitting them..

Redundency is a very good thing in a bus conversion.. If your biggest worry is losing HP on hills, then do as I do and simply

switch the A/C off for the climb. You wont cool down that much with 11 tons blowing into your bus. Most of the time,

my OTR A/C runs for 5 mins and then off for 10 mins. Otherwise you'll frost the windows up. Lol..

If something should happen to your house A/C or generator, hay, you still would have OTR air. And vise-versa.

Good Luck
Nick-

[PCC]

Good points, Mr. Nick. I had not considered that situation, so now to think about reworking the factory A/C. That is a scary situation; you have just given me a project I am not sure that I am truly excited about !!!!!

Having removed the front heat/cool/fan box from under the coach, and used the space (presuming I would go for gen-powered, are there options for a simple replacement set of coils to add that is A/C only. I can arrange the air distribution, so how would you suggest I decide what I need to distribute the cooled air.

Can a horizontally-mounted set of coils be mounted vertically? If so, I know how to re-install that unit, which is 54" X 36" X 10". I can remount that unit up high inside the coach above a doorway (duck your head,please), and duct it along the ceiling, or by hiding it behind a cabinet in the divider between rooms, if I can rotate it to vertical.

I can (another option) reduct the rear unit to send air to the front area in the coach, but I am reducing the system capacity, so what else has to change, if that is a possible option?? Do I remove one of the radiators from the system to balance things?? Will the same compressor still do the job??

Now I am full of questions - my ignorance is showing, but then how does one learn without asking the questions?

Hopefully, I am not upsetting anyone by having to talk this through?

Thank you all.

Keith

[John316]

PCC,

IF the OTR air, isn't an option, I might have another option for you.

You might just want to go out, and get SIX (yes 6), roof top ac units (5 would do just great too). Get the 15K, ones, and set them up there. VIOLA, problem solved....

But again, that is only IF you can't do the OTR air.

We couldn't get ours going, after spending lots of $$$ on it, so we just have the generator, and roof airs...

FWIW

Oh, yes, you might get more publicity on this thread, if you got one of the mods to move it to a new thread...I think it is fine here, just thought you might want others to see it too...

God bless,

John

[PCC]

On top is not an option, because I am already almost 13 feet high, and I am concerned about clearance when arriving at buildings with a covered entry, so I must stay underneath.

So is there a high power A/C unit compact enough to go under the bus? I like cold, personally, so I have to do something, now that my plans have been stopped and altered by this discussion.

I will find a way to get the unit installed, if I find something that will work.

Keith

[jackhartjr]

Keith, just be glad you plans are stopped now...you can get help BEFORE wasting a lot of time!
Jack