Engine Conversion Article -- Want comments and questions

rv_safetyman · October 24, 2009, 10:57:28 AM

Those of you who are BCM magazine subscribers (or who get it via email) may have noted that my engine conversion article is finally done and the first installment appears in the October issue. In that issue it says that it will be published in two parts, but that has now been changed to three parts.

In the article I ask for CONSTRUCTIVE

comments and questions. I, clearly, am not the possessor of all information related to the subject. Nor could I put all my thoughts in writing. Nor do I want to stifle opposing opinions

When Sonnie Gray and I did the seminars at a couple of Jack's parties, we presented it as half seminar and half round-table. The round-table produced some very good input. I am hoping we can do the same thing with the article. Consider that the seminar is being presented, but the round table will follow based on your comments and questions. Not as good as a face to face round-table, but I think we can make it work.

It is a bit premature to ask for your input right now, as I may cover your questions in the last two installments. However, I would like you to be thinking about your input.

After I get your input, I will write a follow-up article that will include the CONSTRUCTIVE comments and my attempt to answer specific questions. I have already had some questions about "what engine should I put in my bus?". That is outside the scope of the article, but it might be a good question to post on this board.

Send your comments/questions to: jim at rvsafetysystems dot com

Jim

rv_safetyman · November 15, 2009, 07:51:48 PM

OK Folks. Most of you have your November issue of BCM and have had a chance to read installment 2 of my engine conversion article. Tonight I just proof read the final installment that will appear in the December issue.

So far, I have been UNDERWHELMED by comments/questions/suggestions!

Surely I must have made statements in the first two installments that caused you to question my intelligence

.

I really want to write a follow up article that is based on good input from you great folks. So far, about the only comment is about my N14 error

Contact me at jim at rvsafetysystems dot com with your constructive

input.

Jim

DMoedave · November 15, 2009, 07:58:13 PM

I havent got my Nov. issue yet!!!! i have to go back and reread Septs.

rv_safetyman · November 15, 2009, 08:38:18 PM

DMoedave, the first installment was in the Oct. issue. I just got my Nov. issue on Friday, so hang in there.

One of the subjects that I would like to "beef up" in the follow up article is the selection of a "GOOD" used engine. As most of you know, this is a real sensitive (read $$$$$) issue with me.

I know there is no guarantee, but what steps would you take to give you better odds?

I just got an email that noted that I did not cover suggestions about engine options for various buses. I have not found a way to deal with that, as it touches on the old Ford/Chevy/Dodge type argument. I would be glad to tackle the subject if you folks will give me your opinions. Maybe we could tabulate reader suggestions for the most popular buses and discuss pros/cons of each engine option. If we think of doing that, it would require a ton of input from the readers. Would certainly be a lively subject

Jim

Bestekustoms · November 15, 2009, 10:08:05 PM

Stuff A HEMI In There

I Cant Wait To Get Signed Up For The Magazine JIM. Im Looking Forward To The Bus Mag More,Than Getting My New Issue Of Rodders Journal.!! Yea..Im Sick.

COOL, I Cant Wait To See What Your Engine Conversion Is All About.

JOHN

Don Fairchild · November 17, 2009, 04:15:01 PM

Jim,

I have read the first two installments and can't Wait for the next one.
Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and research with us.

Don

DaveG · November 17, 2009, 04:40:49 PM

Read first one (Cummins N14...did we cover that?) and waiting on the second one!

Pretty tough to find a "good used" engine, one that is guaranteed! Even buying a good running used truck, dyno and oil sample...you could still have a major failure.

luvrbus · November 17, 2009, 05:07:27 PM

Jim giving you guys good info in his articles to add to it a little there is not much modifications need for the later model buses as most of those were setup for different engines.
Eagles in 1994 came with the option of 3 different DD along with Cat and Cummins not much to change but the engine cradle Prevost had a option of the 60s, or 8v92 with a cradle change.

good luck

rv_safetyman · November 17, 2009, 05:31:56 PM

N14 error:

From text: "There are two size categories of four-stroke engines that are candidates for our larger buses. The large four-stroke engines (e.g., Detroit Series 60/Cummins ISX/CAT N14) will require significant modifications....."

Have no idea how I did that.

Should have read: "There are two size categories of four-stroke engines that are candidates for our larger buses. The large four-stroke engines (e.g., Detroit Series 60/Cummins ISX, N14/CAT C13, C15) will require significant modifications......"

At least I know some of you got that far before you fell asleep

.

Jim

Eagle Andy · November 18, 2009, 05:32:21 AM

Hey Jim , Glad to hear you worked the kinks out of you engine deal . Iam still waiting for my nov issue . I found part one to be informative and looking forward to part two . Thanks for taking the time Andy

DMoedave · December 06, 2009, 08:20:47 AM

I thought the articles so far were right on. The #'s for professional work are probaly close maybe low, as usually there is alot of other work needed or found during the repower that has to be done. As to the used engine issues, i think usually the donor engine should be torn down and rebuilt as needed. In our case we got a engine and trans from a MCI5C. The 6V71 was torn down and rebuilt 1st thing. The trans had a rebuild tag less than a year so it was sent out and dino tested with the shaft seals replace and the dino sheets provided. These 2 items were probably the cheapest part of our repower!
We just got the Nov. issue last week, cant wait for the Dec. Great article, keep up the good work. When i get a chance i will try to send you some pics of our repower from a 4-71 stick to a 6V-71 auto on our GMCI!

rv_safetyman · December 06, 2009, 08:34:44 AM

DMoedave, thanks for bringing this to the top again. I was going to wait a few days until I was sure that most folks had the Dec. issue.

After all of my trauma with major engine problems, I now have the strong recommendation that a person have the engine gone through before the do the installation. I wanted to do that, but just did not have the funds. Now, I have to pony up. I chose to go the used route again, but at least I know the history of this engine, so my odds are better than with the last engine.

Southern Oregon Diesel, when they were doing engine swaps in buses, made the decision towards the end that they would not do conversion without rebuilding the engine.

As I mention in the article, there is a huge variation of what constitutes rebuild. I would be very careful to either used an authorized dealer, or get good references on the re-builder of choice.

Since there is often a large amount of time between getting the engine and turning the key on, I would get an agreement that the warranty clock would start when the conversion was complete.

I still want to encourage folks to give me feedback so that we can have a worthwhile follow-up article. Other wise, I will have to make something up

Jim

bobofthenorth · December 06, 2009, 08:54:20 AM

Its a great topic Jim & you are doing a good job of covering it - I'm reading your articles with interest. As you know, I put a bunch of money into my 8-92 last winter. I hesitate to call it a rebuild because I'm still running with one old head and the original injector pump. Even so I'm probably 1/2 way into what a repower with a S60 would have cost and that might be an optimistic assumption about what I could have obtained a good S60 for. I'm thinking that a follow-on to your re-power articles might be something about freshening our old 2-strokes. I think TomC did an upgrade to his 8-71 and there must be others out there who have decided to put money into their 2-stroke rather than doing an engine swap. Life is about tradeoffs - if money was unlimited we could all drive 2 year old Liberties that were still under warranty. I think there would be a good story in talking about those who have taken the other road.

Dreamscape · December 06, 2009, 08:59:04 AM

Bob, You have said what I wanted to about two strokes! It would be interesting to hear about it, at least for us with our 8v71n. Maybe we could hear about how to turn it into a Hot Rod! Not that I can afford it, but it would be a good read.

I don't have anything to offer, but like to learn.

Paul

luvrbus · December 06, 2009, 09:03:07 AM

Jim, I remember one of David's swaps he charged 31,000 bucks for and in 1400 miles cost him 26,000 bucks for another outfit to replace the engine, from that day on it was buy your own engine and bring it to him.
I guess Mel's C15 Cat in his Eagle will be the very last engine swap for David and Dennis.

good luck