Here we go... How much skill am I going to need?

[oldmansax]

Marc,

The basic answer to your original question is:

MORE THAN YOU HAVE NOW.

That's not a put down at all. Most folks I have talked to both on this board and others will run up on something they don't know how to fix/repair/replace/find and/or destroy if they follow this hobby long enough. There are a number of people here who are very talented & knowledgeable but I bet none of them would say "I know everything there is to know about buses & bus conversions".

I, on the other hand, started out thinking just that. I soon proved myself wrong.

Perhaps some other questions might be, are you mechanically inclined? Do you like to take things apart & put them back together again? Are you patient? Able to follow instructions, diagrams, and plans? Humble enough to ask questions?

And the most important one:

ARE YOU CAREFUL?!!

Lots of stuff on equipment this size can seriously injure or kill you.

All that being said, buy yourself a bus & go to work. It's a wonderful hobby!

I once was thinking about buying a Jaguar with a V12 and several other very sophisticated systems. When I questioned the salesman about the reliability and maintenance on the car, he made a profound statement I have never forgotten. He said, "Lemme tell you something, son. This car is just just like a woman. When she's right, there ain't nothing like her........ and when she ain't right, there ain't nothing like her!"

I think this applies to buses too.

Buy yourself a bus & join the fun!

TOM

[NJT5047]

You need a local expert to evaluate your find.  If you're near central North Carolina, Bill (Trailblazer) is nearby in Siler City and could advise...he's an ex-Carolina Trailways guy and knows from Bo on those sorts of GM things.
Otherwise, I'm in Charlotte.  But I don't know Bo about GM coaches...bummer.  I could advise if you'll look at an MC9...?   
One thing's clear...whatever the seller is asking is totally unrelated to what the market will bear.  You aren't in a hurry...?   Wear him down.  Keep looking at it.  Bring some local 'experts' over to look at the bus and keep the 'long-face' going.  See what happens.   He may give it to you eventually.  The value is only going lower every day Obama's Cap'n'Trade deal moves forward.   Winter's coming in...opportunity to sell bus this year is waning.   
How long has the coach been on the market?  I have not read all of your posts, but does it run?  Batteries up?  Tires?  Clutch?  How much corrosion?   Is it driveable, licensed and insured? Most any busnut can advise about of these questions.  Post where you are located (actually, where the bus is located) and see who's nearby.   
Those old GMs were well built and a few still have a good bit of life in them...if you don't mind working on heavy equipment.   And, you have a place to work, and some mechanical skills.  Or, friends that have truck chassis skills.   
There's a bus rally next weekend in Cleveland, SC.  There will be several GM coaches attending and a lot of bus knowledgeable folk ready to help advance you project.   Trailblazer will be there too. 
There's an '80s vintage MC9 in Monroe, NC that a guy bought some several years ago and has not done anything with it.  Probably pretty cheap now.  I know it'll move.  He had to move due to the bus.   The bus drove 2 years ago.  I can easily get in touch with him if you're interested. 
BTW, having a functional RV for a donor will greatly reduce your 'nickle and dime' stuff.  You'll still spend some bucks on your conversion, but at least you know how it works an minor repairs will be easy to sort out.
As long as you can afford to operate the coach safely, the conversion can go along at whatever pace finances allow. 
I'll post a link to Kyle's Non-Rally.  Jack Conrad will be over on Tuesday,  Trailblazer and me will be over on Wednesday.  Even if you make it a Saturday trip, it'll be worth your time.   
If you plan to come an camp, any sort of self contained camper is cool.  But, the campground has no public bath facilities so the ONLY requirement to camp is to have a completely self contained camper.   
Cleveland, SC is about an hour West of I-26 just off SC Hwy 11.

JR

[NJT5047]

Marc...Here's where you can be imparted with all of the skills you'll need to convert your bus...I'm not sure that this is the best way to find the link...but if this doesn't work, search for "Kyle's Palmetto Cove Non-Rally"...
This is the weekend of October 10th.  About 2 hours plus a little from Charlotte.   
If anyone knows a better way to link this, feel free to fix it...Dallas?  Nick?

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=12938.msg142203#msg142203

[Fredward]

Marc,
Just another opinion for you but I would pass on that 4104 unless you are absolutely in love with GM 4104 busses in which case go for it. Otherwise, i'd have to ask whats that bus been doing since 1960? Or at least since 1980 when it was probably retired? The guy selling it has been working on some conversion items but has he looked at engine? tranny? air bags? torsion bushings? kinpins? tie rod? This bus could be a time bomb from a deferred maintenance standpoint.

On the other hand, if she's received loving attention all these years, been stored inside just waiting for the right moment for conversion, then you may have found a real treasure. If this is not the case, I would walk away and find one thats mechanically sound, partially or fully converted.

I have a 1965 MC-5 that was a hound. The odometer shows 1,188,800.0 and its a digital odometer. I'm guessing shes got over 3 million miles. But mechanically its sound and it was converted between 2000 and now. I flip the switch and drive it anywhere but it took lots of time and money to get it to this point.

Again, if a 4101 is what you want, check around (even on this magazine's web site) and there are some old GM coaches available right there.

FWIW -FRed

[Just Dallas]

Removed

[redbus]

When I bought my Bus I had it all checked out at a reputable shop.All checked out good.About 8000 mi later the torque converter locked up. On a downshift it took out transmission and rearend. We were 2000 mi from home so spent 5 weeks in a transmission shop and just over $10,000 for repairs. S**t happens.But I own a Bus so that makes me the WINNER ?

[thejumpsuitman]

...spent 5 weeks in a transmission shop and just over $10,000 for repairs...

Ouch.  Hope it the breakdown wasn't in Moriarty, New Mexico in July or something.

[redbus]

No Yuma,Az in Jan. so not a bad place to be.

[Dreamscape]

It all depends on how soon you want to use your "New to Me Bus". If you have limited skills like you have mentioned, it might be best to buy one that's road ready and already built. Maybe not to your taste, but you can change that as you go along as the needs/wants suits you, and have fun doing it. Like others have already siad, S**T happens and if you want to learn how to acquire the skills go for it. But be prepared for a "Wild Ride".

This crazy hobby we all are in love with can be daunting at times, just don't expect miracles to happen unless you can make it happen.

Now that you've heard the worse that can happen, the flip side is this. "It is one of the most rewarding experiences you will ever encounter". That is if you go into this with your eyes wide open, your bank account in line and credit cards not maxed out.

HTH,

Paul

[boogster]

 
Hey Jump
My hunting partner and I bought a bus. We have no real plumbing skills or elec. skills. We have built things here and there. Yes it was and is fun learning as you go. I think you should buy it, do it yourself, your way and it will mean more to you and you'll enjoy it more. We have buddies who we are bartering with the things we don't know how to do. Like we have one guy who is doing the generator hook up and plumbing and another that is going to tile the bathroom and main floor.
Check it out!
Have a wonderful time! 1 bit of advice....but screws buy the pound. Lots of drill bits and screw tips. Get a sawsall and lots of blades. Trust me it will save you time in the long run.
Happy Bussing!
Boog

http://www.2womenwhitetaildeerhunting.com

[rwc]

If you are still looking there is an MCI 9 in Belton,Texas Converted needs tires has gen installed but probably needs to be replaced hardy 8V71 with Allison 740, Starts without smoke and sounds good. Conversion is for two people only and some things would probably need to be changed. Asking price is 27500 but withit needing tires that is probably just a starting point. I have looked at this bus and found no rust issues but it was not for me. I am tall and will need a roof raise.

[BG6]

Would it be better to pass on one like this if you have no experience with bus conversions? 

How else are you going to get it?

The guy paid about 10 grand for it and started the conversion.  For personal reasons he explained to me, he is selling it for half that.

Yeah, "personal reasons," like he found out it was worth about $1500, with all of the stuff thrown in..

Consider that this coach has been out of commercial service for 30 years.  The conversion may have been started four owners ago!

The ONLY coach of that era that I would buy to convert would be a 4501 -- the original Scenicruiser is the most beautiful coach shell ever designed, and is timeless.

If he GAVE it to you, free, that would be worth going forward with the conversion, but it's not worth buying as is, especially in this market (when 75% of the RV dealers AND BUILDERS who were here two years ago are gone) and this time of year (buy a coach in the Fall, sell a coach in the Spring).

If you just want an RV, there are a lot of them on the market.  If you want a project to be proud of, you can find shells (or even coaches coming out of paid service) at good prices.  I was working on a 1968 4903 when I found the 1990 MCI at a price low enough to make it worth giving up on the other project and doing this one instead!  Now I have to sell the GMC, but I may do a quickie / cheapie conversion on it first, just to get it to sell.  Otherwise, I have to sell it cheap -- or scrap it, which I really don't want to do!

[zubzub]

As far as the skills you need I agree with old man sax..."more than you have" but that's the way it's supposed to be.  Feels better when you get er done!  Also you need skill at getting more $$$ as that also will be required.  I agree with others...project buses are worth no more than the scrap price unless they are very new buses or have really nice bits (generators etc..) attached.  My feeling is a running converted bus is the best way to go, there will be plenty of work to do even on a "finished" coach.  FWIW I like the 4104 as it is a small fully mechanical coach that gets decent mileage and uses lots of off the shelf truck stuff....follow you heart, enjoy yourself....remember it doesn't make sense but make it safe.  patrick.

[Tenor]

Marc,
How much skill will it take?  If you can tell us that you are comfortable with all types of tools; are a quick learner for mechanics, wood work, plumbing, electrical and are willing to get grease in places you didn't know you have, you have enough skill.

My first bus was a piece of junk that I cut my teeth on.  I recycled my 73 Winnie, put in cabinets from someone remodeling their house, fixed plumbing, learned how to wire 110, had the old 1 cyl Onan genset.  That bus caught on fire, and I got my money out of the insurance.

The second bus I bought with much better eyes.  Not the prettiest bus, but clearly mechanically sound.  New engine, tranny, tires, skinned and capped, new RV windows and lots of accessories stuffed in the bays.  Paid 3500.

I have had many resources to ask questions to, including BCM Magazine, the Board here, BNO, bus conversion clubs and my father-in-law who is a licensed contractor/cabinet maker.  Do you have similar help?  It's invaluable!

Feel free to recycle your motorhome!  I bought a whole travel trailer for 1500 and used EVERYTHING!  Wiring, wood, mechanicals, plumbing...

Can you post some pics of this bus?  It would help us advise you.  Good luck!

Glenn

[thejumpsuitman]

Thanks again for the broad spectrum of opinions.  This is the impression I am getting...

Owning a bus is all about what it means to the individual on a very personal level.  The very idea of tinkering with an old bus is utterly ridiculous to some, especially to those who can afford a fully converted and mechanically restored coach... 

It also might seem stupid to those who hold no fondness or fascination for anything "vintage", and would rather drive a bus that has a more modern look anyway.

To others more like me, dropping big bucks all at once may never be an option, so it's about getting into a bus on an affordable level and enjoying the process of restoration and conversion whether or not it is financially logical in the long run. 

Personally, I love and actually prefer the older style, and have always enjoyed owning and using vintage classic cars as daily drivers.  I also have a house full of vintage items that I get a kick out of using in my daily life (i.e. 1903 piano, 1955 sewing machine, 1930's desk, etc.). 

But overall, my first instincts seem to be holding... I feel I should be patient and find someone who has already done the hard work and brought a bus up to speed mechanically, and take the torch from them. 

One thing seems clear from what you all have said...  There will never be a time when you will be completely through with working on the bus, and there is no such thing as trouble free.

Marc