Locating generator belt, how? Starting circuit diagram.

[Adarian]

Well, I am home, that is a good thing.
The alternator belt broke today.
Any body know where I can find one? It is a Gates K120559.
Along with that the tensioner pulley also is bad. Bearings are shot, what is a good place to find one?
Cummins L10 engine.

The main story, bus won't start. When turning the master switch from engine stop to day run, I hear a click from the solenoid.
Normally the warning lights come on( no gen, low oil, low air, low water) along with the buzzer if the air is low.
Now I still hear the click from the solenoid when turning the master switch from stop to run but the warning lights do not come on. When I push the engine start button, nothing happens.
A relay, I think has gone bad. Which one I don't now. I do not have manual as I just purchased the bus.
Everything electrical on the bus works except for the warnings lights and buzzer.
If I jump power from a hot lead to the power side of the air starter button, all warning lights and the buzzer work. I can even start the bus by pushing the air starter button and it will run. As soon as I remove the jumper wire the bus shuts off. I need to know which relay feeds power to that system?
Any help in locating a diagram would be truly appreciated.


1988 Flxible metro, Cummins L10 and Voith D863 transmission.

[zubzub]

does flxble still exist? If so contact them re wiring diagram and anything else they have on your bus.  Otherwise there is a flxble site online, they mostly do older buses but they may know stuff for sourcing.  There are so many systems on modern buses (yours is modern) you are going to need more tech manuals or tons of patience.  the other place to look in the muni yard that took care of these buses when they were in service....2 things there, maybe old manuals, maybe old geezer (not so old really) who used to fix them.
FWIW your fried a bat pretty hard on the way home, it may be dead or close to and leaning on the other one, not opening a relay etc...it's hard to TS relays when the source power is low.  IMHE low batts makes all sorts of trouble that disappear when a good charge is present...loose connections don't carry current etc...and with no alt belt/tensioner you may have driven all/some of the way home just on batts.  BTW the Einsteins who rigged your bus as pure 24v may have messed up your alternator, don't know this for a fact but would be a concern of mine.
  When all is said and done you made it home so your doing great, how about some pics when you get a chance.  Also there are some old geezers (not so old really) who have been around awhile.  If you post pics of circuits, relays etc...they know the bits and tell you all about how they work or post links etc...pretty invaluable
Oh yeah the belt, start with a local truck parts place, bring the old one in and get a match re length and profile.  The tensioner probably ordered there too.

[Adarian]

No, Flxible went out of business back in the 90's.
All batteries are showing 12.5 to 12.6  volts.
When it ran it showed the batts being charge.
The no started was after, I made it home from an 800 mile adventure.
Parked the bus. Went back the next morning and picked it up to move it to a storage facility.
It started and I drove it about 2 miles and parked it as the no gen light was on.
While parked I was going through it and seeing what made need to be fixed.
I let it run for about 10 minutes to build up air while I worked on the doors.
I then shut if off for about one hour.
I go to start it and no warning lights come on. I go and check the engine and that is when I found the alternator belt had broke and the tensioner pulley worn out.
I am getting power to everything that should get power except for that circuit or circuits that control, fuel solenoid, air starter button, and the lo oil, lo water and lo air.
Headlights work, interior lights work, hazards, turn signals, doors open and close, driver's fan work, I can hear the solenoid click when turning on master switch from engine stop to day run position. I checked the rear control switches and they are set to the start from front.
The bus won't start from the rear controls either.

I will try and start it this morning and see what happens.
Previous post on my adventure home.
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=13242.0

[Adarian]

Also, the bus will start if I jump a positive wire to the positive side of the engine start button.
As soon as the positive wire is removed the bus will shut off.

[Adarian]

Okay, latest update.
Went to start bus up this morning.
From the front switch nothing happens.
I go to the back and try the rear controls. It starts up.
I shut it down, put it back on front start and I go and try to start it from the front again. Same thing nothing happens, no warning lights no nothing.
I go back to the rear controls and try and start it, this time I hear the warning buzzer for the low air. But it wont start.
I wait a few minutes and try it again and this time it starts.

It has to be a bad relay someplace.
But it starts and runs from the rear controls now.
Going to move it to storage.

[Hartley]

What you need is a manual set.

The Model 870 Grumman is probably the one. The Fxl Metros were pretty much
all the same setup.

Try Here...

http://www.coachinfo.com/Manuals/Coach/Flxible/Grumman.html

Dave

[Sean]

Well, I am home, that is a good thing.
Along with that the tensioner pulley also is bad. Bearings are shot, what is a good place to find one?

My tensioner/idler pulley bearings died a horrible death on the road:

http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com/2009/06/losing-our-bearings.html
(click on the photos to enlarge -- the bearing destruction is quite impressive)

When I took it apart, I found (much to my relief, given how weird everything else on this bus is) that the bearings were fairly common items, and a shop across town had two in stock:

http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com/2009/06/bearing-good-tidings.html

Getting the old ones out, as described in that post, was beyond my means, tool-wise, and so I had the shop do it for me.

You might take your pulley assembly apart and get to the bearings; they most likely will have a number stamped on them someplace.  The bearing industry uses a standardized numbering system; once you have the number, pretty much anyone should be able to get you bearings.  Probably a lot cheaper than finding a whole pulley assembly.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

[NJT 5573]

My local belt supplier is Gerrish Bearing in Seattle.   

If you call them, they will credit card ship directly to you from the Gates factory, new stock, next day air, any belt you need, anywhere in the country. Break it today, get it tomorrow. 206.762.7070. No tax to out of state buyers.

The bearing should be available at any bearing shop. If not there is always a top dollar bearing available at Cummins.

Before you go to far with the diagnostics, charge your batterys.

[wrench]

Also, the bus will start if I jump a positive wire to the positive side of the engine start button.
As soon as the positive wire is removed the bus will shut off.

          The POS cable is loose on the terminal or corroded inside one of the 2 terminal at the source(batt if it's where you hook you jumper), or at the POS side of the start button.
             wrench

[Adarian]

The power came from the master switch, the center terminal.
I use a four inch piece of wire. Touched it to the engine start button and all the warning lights and buzzer came on. No gen light also comes on.
The engine start buttons has two wires(one red 35c and one black 35x) on one terminal and one wire on the other terminal( blue).
I then push the engine start button and it starts. Once wire is removed bus stops running.
I would have to assume the single blue wire leads to the air starter solenoid.

The engine will start using the rear controls of the bus.

I need to find out were the red wire and the black wire are getting power from.
Or if one is feeding the other. Will check that later today.

[Adarian]

Two issue to deal with.
Found out the front starter solenoid is bad.
The main post has 24v, the little terminal has 24v after turning master switch on.
The other small terminal has a good ground.
If I jump the solenoid from the little 24v terminal to the large post, I get all the warning lights to come on.
Bus will still not crank.

From the rear, I flip the switches to rear start. All the warning lights come on.
Bus will not crank.
The starter solenoid in the rear has power to the main terminal 24v, but not to the small terminal.

3 relays, neutral safety, starter lockout and control relay appear not to have any power coming in.

Once I get a wiring diagram I can isolate the why.
But I can start the bus if I jumped the rear starter solenoid.

Progress has been made.

Also learned that the rear start switch will shut the doors when flipped from off to rear.