Newbie MC9 Purchase? Advice?

[MrD]

I'm new here and contemplating the bus nut route.   

This is what I've come across:

1983 MCI MC9
6V71 Turbo / Allison 5-speed (not sure which model)

A guy locally has it, and has run into some financial trouble.  He bought it to do a conversion, but it's been sitting.  All seats and luggage removed.  Bathroom still functional but the stainless walls have been removed.  A couple cracked windows, but I'll be removing some anyway.   

Starts right up.  No smoke.  Air pressure good.  Brakes / clutch all good.

Says 247,000 miles.  All gauges work including fuel gauge.  After market tach.

Tires all good, including the spare, plus he has a couple extras.

REALLY wants to sell it.  Cost $2,500 (or less, if I push him)  He needs the money.

Stainless all looks good, with exception of one baggage door that must have gotten bumped.  Small crease in it.   Rubber hinge on the battery compartment broke ( I know I can fix that with a piano hinge).   Has two roof hatches, that would be good to make into A/C.  Has OTR A/C but he says the, I'm guessing compressor? right behind the driver makes some noise when it runs, but it does cool things down evntually.

Jake brake, but isn't working now.  I'm assuming it's probably repairable.   He thought it might be electrical - worked one day, and just cut out.  Same with the cruise. It's there but I think he said it wasn't working.

Now my reservations:  The bus came out of Michigan, was used by a hockey team so I worry about the winter/salt stuff.   In the baggage compartments, in the lower front corners (I guess near the posts ?) there is some rust through, so you can see the ground from in there. If that makes any sense.  Repairable?  The other thing is that on the rear section of the letter board on one side, which I believe is aluminum, has oxidized some and there is a piece missing, maybe half the size of a dollar bill.  A couple holes also in the letter board - maybe where something was mounted?

It needs a good bath.  Some paint peeling in the back over the engine bay doors.   Not much visible rust that I could really see.   

So my question is, for $2,500, can I go wrong? Or am I just asking for problems? What about the rust issues?    I'd rather have an automatic, but for this price, can I make it work, and then at some point if I need to, do a conversion?   

Any suggestions /thoughts/ advice?

[Tenor]

Any chance you could post some pictures of the holes you are seeing?  That definitely makes me nervous.  How long does it hold air?  That can tell you a lot about condition.  Also, look at the radius rods where they meet the body.  Check to see if the bushings are really sticking out from behind the round plate.  1/4 inch showing is about normal.  Expect some cracks in them.  More than that indicates problems.  Are you in Michigan, or did the bus leave the state?  Let us know where you are, and perhaps someone could help you look at it.  Good luck!

Glenn

[bevans6]

For me, the issue was the bus had to be sound.  It had to be 95% perfect.  It doesn't sound like yours is.  the problem is that if you are even asking about the $2500, you may be shocked when a bill for double that to get the brakes fixed comes in.  the cost of the conversion is kind of anticipated, the cost of making the bus run gets overlooked.

From what you  have said, I'd be really careful about this bus.  My way of looking at it, $2500 is close enough to free to write that off.  It's what comes next that is the grinder...

Brian

[MrD]

I'm in upstate NY, near Binghamton.

Attached are two pictures, one of the bus itself, and one of the area I was looking at in the letterboard and trim.  I should have taken some more pictures today when I was there. 

I'm just not sure what I should expect for a 1983, what I can fix and what I can't.

[Dreamscape]

If it's on the outside, guess what could be lurking behind the skin! If you can repair it yourself, go for it. Otherwise I'd be careful when opening your wallet. It might cost you many thousands and many long hours to fix it. You'll never know until you peel it off and expose it.

Paul

[Dallas]

If it really is a 6V71T, I think you won't be happy with the power. Probably what it is is a 6V92. Look at the pulley on the passenger side cam that's mounted on the end of the engine you can see when you open the rear doors. It will probably say "6V92", if it says 6V71, someone stuck it in there.

The transmission, if it is an Allison, is an automatic. Could be a 5 speed, but I'll bet since you mentioned wanting one that it's a Spicer manual transmission.

The rust looks like it's come down from the upper side, usually from the Radiator inlets or above that, from the clearance light housings. Look up inside the Squirrel cage blower housing and see what kind of rust is on the structure up there.
I've seen 102C3's that had almost none left from the clearance lights on down. The only thing supporting the back end of the bus was the skin.

[NewbeeMC9]

See if you can get a mechanic to check it out.

The baggage bay floor is supposed to be stainless steel, if it is corroded through you may have bigger troubles

takes some more picks too,

check the air beams too


if your plan B is to use it for parts for another bus you maybe ok if the powertrain is good. and you don't mind swapping it.

I don't think you'll lose on the $2500 if your willing to do your own work
if it turns out to be too much, you could sell the parts if they are as good as said.
also
http://scrapmetalpricesandauctions.com/exotic-stainless-alloys/stainless-steel-304/,  you could re coupe your money this way too



A bus is like a computer, marriage, or any thing else,

if you have a computer, you will have computer problems

just what you are willing to deal with


good luck and keep us posted

[MrD]

Thanks for everyones advice.  I think I definitely need someone to check it out for me.   There is a local bus company.  Maybe I can hire a mechanic for an hour or two to give me an opinion.   I certainly don't want to buy any more problems.

Maybe I can get some more pictures taken as well.

Thanks again.

[Tenor]

More pictures of the squirrel cage area above the engine focusing on the steel body structure, pictures of the holes in the baggage bays (those are aluminum and stainless, so if they have corroded through, RUN AWAY!), pictures of the rear suspension shot through between the rear wheels.   Also, lift the front bumper to see the spare tire compartment.  Look at the steel at the front of the bus for rust.  Pretty common here too.  If any of these places are rusted out (surface stuff is ok), RUN AWAY!  Good luck!

Glenn

[gumpy]

It looks like the second photo has rust stains down the side of the bus, all along the side...

Here's a test you can do. Walk along the side of the bus, and with a tightly clenched fist, pound on the side walls right over the vertical rows of rivets. Then stop and listen to the rust falling inside the walls. 

Take a look at the photos on my website (bus.gumpydog.com) and you will see what might be lurking inside the walls of that bus.

If there are actual holes rotted through the aluminum skin as you indicate in the first photo, I can almost guarantee that the framing inside those walls is very corroded.

Maybe it's not a show stopper. Depends on many other things, including your abilities.  Only you can make that decision, but this could end up being the most expensive $2500 you
ever spent.

[RJ]

Mr. D -

That dog's been run hard and put away wet.

Very wet!

Offer $1000, then compromise around $1500.

Now you've got a good parts bus - start stripping all the good sheet metal and running gear off it to sell to other busnuts, or keep for the better condition MC-9 that's calling your name from the southwestern US.

Don't even consider putting $$ into this one as a conversion.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[MrD]

Well, after taking in everyone's input,  reviewing what I do know about this bus, and doing some more research,  I think this just isn't the best deal.   Cheap maybe, but I think it will just be a lot of headaches.

I really want an automatic, and even if this bus was in pristine condition, I know the auto conversion will be at least $6-$8k, maybe more on top of this.   I really think it's probably got some corrosion issues, and I think I'll just wait on another deal.   Maybe, as some have suggested, it would be a good parts bus, and I might propose that to this guy, at some point.  He's desperate for cash, but I don't think he'll ever get what he wants.

I think something like this would be a much better deal:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170366784792&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Anyone near Tacoma Park, MD know anything about that bus? I'm too far away to take a look at it.   I still debating the MC-8 vs MC-9 thing in my head.  I guess I'd like to have an MC-9, just because it's newer, but I know there are other factors. 

I found a couple other buses 80's, MC-9, appear to be originally southern buses, and their prices are closer to $10k, with rebuilt engines, and in decent condition.   I'd like a better deal than that, so I guess I just wait and see.

Thanks for everyone's guidance!

[cody]

You've got plenty of time to find the right bus, I looked for over 2 years, spent many nights in motels and drove many miles, only to find the perfect bus that didn't look so good the next day.  The advice to have a bus (not truck) mechanic check it is solid gold, the cost could save you thousands and how much in grief, family discord, who knows lol.  If you prefer an automatic then make that right up at the top of the list, also a jake is a great thing to have, I'd kill for one but at some point I'll get one.  Also, some buses would require a roof raise to comfortably move around in, some already have enough height, a roof raise if needed carries cost too, along with caps, etc.  Some people prefer 35ft, others 40, some need 45ft. but 40 seems to be very common.  Check the engine cradle, air beam, if equiped lol, check behind the front bumper, wiggle in and look up to see what the area behind the headlights and up towards the wiper motors looks like for rust.  A good bus from the southwest will normally have less rust but it may have not spent all it's life there, get the vin number and post it here, many can tell you who the original buyer was off the vin number and where it ran.  You're about to make the biggest mistake of your life outside of marriage lol and we're all here to cheer you on to your demise and will even help push you off the cliff from time to time lol.  Most of us made the same mistake, some several times and the insanity is contagious lol.

[Airbag]

You already know whats above the floor will be redone, it is what's under the floor that you need to be concerned with. So have it checked out by a competent bus mechanic and go from there. The real money is under the floor. I did not go about buying my bus the right way but fortunately for me the seller was honest about most of it. I was lucky. When prices go down to fire sale levels the sellers are not likely to be very helpful. I hope it has maintenance records. Without them it's a crap shoot. I keep a maintenance log for everything even a light bulb change gets entered.