Need pet owning members help/advice!

[Busted Knuckle]

OK as some of you have read on my other recent thread I recently adopted 2 very sweet 5 wk old Lab puppies!

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=12139.0

BK -

Hopefully, when they get a little older, they'll visit the vet, otherwise you're gonna have a bunch of intersections!!

Yes RJ they will be going to the VET and be society friendly pets!

Well they are brother & sister and I want to be a responsible pet owner and have them both fixed.
A while back I read somewhere(I think it was here on this board) that there are 2 different types of procedures for this for the females, and that one is better than the other. But I also remember that it said most VETS these days do the simple, which is not the best choice for the pet.
Does anyone know what I'm refering too?  
I want to have my new daughter fixed properly where she can live a long happy enjoyable life playing with her brother!
  BK 

[bubbaqgal]

Bryce, I worked for a vet but we only did one procedure on the females.  I am not certain what the other one would be. I suggest you call a couple of vets and ask them what their procedure is.  I do recommend that you have her done as soon as possible.  For females it is better to have them spayed before they ever go into heat because that will reduce the risk of breast cancer.  That would mean having her done when she is around 5 months. 

[Van]

Had our little Queen done at 5 months also.Find a good vet ,don't forget the shots and keep records,you ol pack leader you.
Oh,almost forgot ,start teaching them young,not to bite into the beer can when retrieving it from the fridge LOL,don't ask me how I know
It is hard to tell a Pit Bull not to bite down hard,switched to bottles and haven't had any problems since 

[JohnEd]

BK,

I am the guy with the alternative and I ever so strongly recommend it over a spay.  If they keep their ovaries they live a lot longer and ,as my vet said, they drop dead of a heart attack as an old dog while in full stride....as God intended.

I strongly disagree with the suggestion that you spay prior to the first heat at 12 months.  The ovaries are the source of testosterone for the female.  You remove them and she develops in her critical early life with out testosterone.  That yields smaller size, smaller bones and almost no muscle definition or tone.  I really need to find out how to post pics cause I have never visited the dog park that I haven't gotten a compliment on the extremely good condition of my kids. That's three days a week. One guy that commented I asked if he thought that Merlin looked "buff"?  He said "naw, that little guy is "chisled".  And he is!  Castrating a little guy at 4 to 6 months cheats him out of most of what makes him a Dude in the first place.

Most cancer in bitches is either uterine or mammary.  Without a uterus she can't get that cancer but with the ovaries she is still subject to developing ovarian cancer.  This is why we take out daughters in to have hysterectomies when they turn 14.....got that?  And God forbid anything like that is needed, but if it is, we get them hormone replacement therapy.  Just like we do for our precious bitches that are spayed.....right?  No, for them we just call them "fixed" and forget it.  There is no guarantee that they will get mamarian cancer....just like there is no guarantee that our sons won't get testicular cancer if we don't have them castrated.

Vets, like Md's, give a lot of advice that is self serving to them and that gives them the benefit of the doubt.  Trust but verify.  I was ridiculed by vets in my quest for a surgeon by both clinic staff and vets alike.  Called an irresponsible owner for not gutting them.  The vet I found said my pets would be more vital and healthy....just as they are in Europe.  GD Frenchmen are always screwing things up for the majority.

Good luck to you and your "kids" on this BK.

John

[bubbaqgal]

Wow, I just learned something.  I never knew that dogs didn't go into heat until 12 months.  Guess someone forgot to tell my dogs that also.  I bow to the superior knowledge of Johned.  I guess my 7 years in a vets office taught me nothing and since he has extensive veterinary experience he obviously is the expert here.

[busshawg]

I don't pretent to know much about dogs, although we have always had shepard/ lab crosses. We had to put our dear 4 legged member of the family down last year. She was the best dam dog we ever had and will probbaly ever will have. She had cancer in her uteris. Obviously she had never been fixed and she never had any little ones. Our vet said this wouldn't have happen if she had been "fixed". She wasn't a young dog but we were told we could have had another couple of years with her if we had got her fixed. We do trust our vet however are open to gain knowledge. As it stands if we get another female we will follow through with the procedure, maybe out of ingnorance but we are doing the best we can. It's bad enough becoming our pet's doctors, but as our lack of health care continues up here we have become our own Dr as well. Another very late diagonsis (after continually going to the DR for help)for a friend of mine who was in his late 40's results in a funeral this saturday.

[JohnEd]

Grant,

I am sorry for your loss.  Truly I am.  I miss all of my pets that have passed....every blessed one.  I think of them often and those thoughts are joyous remembrances of good time passed.  And like Bo Jangles, I still grieve and I dance.

A friend said to me one day "I'll bet if Bizy Bitch ever dies you will never have another dog as long as you live".  I asked him why he would say such a thing.  He said it was because she was so smart and that we were joined at the hip and closer than any master dog team he had ever seen or heard of and "you two are telepathic".  A lot of that was true, but not all.  I asked him if I dropped dead if he thought I should want The Biz to find a warm and loving home where she could live out the rest of her life?  He agreed with enthusiasm.  I then asked if he thought that as much as Bizy obviously loved me that she would want less for me than I for her and that she would want me to live the rest of my life alone and in mourning?  Before he could answer I shared with him that I would be out looking for a "new" companion a very short while after Biz passed and that I thought she would want me to do so as she only wanted the best for me and that I be happy.  Please consider your departed loved ones wishes for you and grow to understand that you owe no one or thing your unhappiness or a life in want.  The greatest tribute you can show your departed pet is to do it over and demonstrate that it wasn't a fluke that relationship you had with them.

I now own two dogs that will undoubtedly live longer than me or my wife.  They are treasures and we have provided for their adoption and something extra.  I suppose some might think us selfish in raising pets this late in our lives....we don't.

The Bitch that came to know and love so intensely had a personality and energy that was greatly influenced by her hormones.  Women are different after menopause and it should follow that a canine would have a similar reaction to these life changes.  Our sons contract testicular cancer and perish but that is no justification to have them castrated when the are 14.  Same for our daughters.  Their "normal" life is sufficient reward to justify the risk whether they have kids or not.  And we all know that a eunuch looks and behaves differently than a man that is equipped...right?  And I am not talking about sex.  Had you had your girl spayed she would not have been the girl you came to love.  Maybe you would have loved her more, I can't say but I doubt it.  Having had such a splendid life with the girl you had being intact i wonder where the incentive comes from to have your next Kid altered.  Your vet was correct in that uterine cancer would not have killed her if she had been spayed.  The logic in that is pedestrian and not worthy of a vet that considers himself intelligent or sensitive.  If you do a uterine hyst. she will still be subject to cancer of the mammaries as the ovarian hormones contribute to that.  Still having a spay performed will not guarantee that she will not get mammarian cancer it just reduces the probability.  Taking this to an extreme, we should have mastectomies performed on our little girls as an adjunct surgery to the spay just to be on the safe side.  God wired these little guys and gave them to us.  I think in our dominion role we have complicated choices to make.  I wish you all manner of joy and love with your new girl and I hope you open you heart and home to her soon.  Please share you adventure with us all.

My most sincere wishes for your joyful future,

John