New additions to the ah Company/Family!

[Zeroclearance]

John, my family Thank you for your post.    We lost our family friend last year, she was almost 10.  (spleen cancer)..   We have waited a year for a litter and have a new female Shepherd.    Our local vet want her in before 5 months..   You have made some very good points.    Will your vet still do the operation?   Do you have his info.  A trip to Oregon from Washington in the near future can be arranged.

[Nissan_DownUnder]

Hi All

As a dog breeder for over 35 years, this is a topic I have some familiarity with.

The latest research shows that both male & female dogs sterilized early have more health problems and shorter lives than entire dogs or ones sterilized later.  Unfortunately I am at work, so I do not have the appropriate links available.

Vets prefer to sterilize early for several reasons.  1) Get you in straight away, the longer  you wait, the more likely the client will forget or move to another vets district.  2) Bitches come into their first season anywhere from 6 months to 18 months depending on the breed & the individual.  If they sterilize early it avoids the chance of an early pregnancy.  3) Younger dogs heal quicker.

We do not have the procedure recommended by John available in NZ.  If we did I would strongly recommend it.  As it is, we recommend bitches be spayed 2 months after their 1st heat or later if practical.

Sterilising male dogs is a different issue.  I don't think it has any effect on the number of unwanted pups born.  In some breeds it can reduce aggression, but in most the effect on temperament is not clear.  Most of our owners keep their dogs entire.

Cheers
    Peter

[JohnEd]

Peter,

Thanks so much for your post.  Your take on the motivation of vets for being in a hurry is spot on according to my suspicions.

An aspect of the early spay that has always disappointed me is the info I was given about the growth of the Bitch.  I have been told that the bitch's source of testosterone is the ovaries.  Further that the testosterone is needed for proper growth and they grow till they are 2 years old.  That was the other reason for not doing the spay till they matured, if at all.

I am confused that the operation I suggested is not "available" in NZ.  Is it illegal?  My vet and a professor say that the surgery is listed in the professional text covering canine surgeries.

Not to give you a big head but my personal experience has been that "breeders" are one savvy group when it comes to canine health info.  Fully half of the vets had never heard of the surgery and none of the office staff had even a clue.  And it used to be the method of choice in the USA according to the Professor.

Thanks again,

John

[Nissan_DownUnder]

Hi John

The only reason the procedure is not available here is attitude of the vets here.  We have few vets & they all have more work than they need.  Therefore, they generally only do the standard operations. 

Most of our litters now, we get by using imported frozen semen, it is the only way we can get sufficient genetic diversity & still maintain quality dogs.  The vet we use for this is a 6 hour drive away.  He would be easily capable of the procedure you describe.  However, we don't spay our bitches until they are older & our puppy buyers generally only go to their local vet.

Interestingly, Old English Sheepdogs generally live to about 10 years old.  On average our lines live to about 12 to 13 years. Recently several of our bitches have lived to over 18 years.  They were both bitches who we had initially shown, then had a litter or two and then spayed at about 10 years old.

I think all genuine breeders are very concerned about the health & welfare of the pups they sell.  I certainly find that breeders particularly from the US & Canada are extremely well informed about the health aspects of their breed.  Generally we have far more opportunity than vets to see animals over their entire lives.  Vets frequently only see animals when they are sick and often only for one or two visits.

PS BK, I think labs are an excellent choice.  If you don't have the time to groom a proper dog (OES) then a Lab is a good substitute.   


Cheers
    Peter