Burrrrr

[Airbag]

Well we decided to take a short trip to Picacho Peak state park campground and spend a couple nights. Boy the longer she sits the more that goes wrong. We had nothing major except the heater did not work and I was not smart enough to bring an electric for a back up. Won't make that mistake again. You guys in the east are probably laughing at our chilly 50 degree nights.

I could not get the heater to stay lit for more than a few seconds. It is a propane unit under cabinet type with four outlets and of the non pilot type. I know I got the shock. The igniter is working but maybe not the thermocouple? I will probably end up removing the whole unit for after looking in the inlet and exhaust I found the inlet plugged with a paper wasp nest and the exhaust pipe is badly rusted making it untrustworthy. I did remove the wasp nest and it did not help. The fridge is on top of it separated by a thick aluminum shelf say 1/8" thick. The fridge has to come out to get access to it.
Are these units worth cleaning out and fixing? Looks like a comparable unit is around $800.00.

I have paperwork on everything in the bus except the heater of course so I don't know the type or model number. I can't even see a thermocouple. I think it may be a Hydroflame because that is what the exhaust pipe outlet say's on the side of the bus.

Looking down the inlet on the outside of the bus I can see some white stuff that looks like ceramic wool, could that be a filter? I get the feeling the whole shibang might be plugged or dirty or both. 

[Lin]

Can only guess at this.  If you had a wasp nest, there could have been others.  I was told that there are also spiders that love the smell of propane and build nests in RV appliances often.  How is your supply voltage?  I know that my heater does not work if the voltage is down.

If you can not clean/fix it in place, then I guess you get to have the fun of removing it, but before doing that, you might want to go to some RV service guy and see what he says.  Maybe there is something quite simple that you do not know about.  At $800 it would seem worth trying to do something with.  If you end up needing another unit, there are probably other options that may be cheaper anyway.

We camped at Picacho Peak some years ago.  It's a great area.  Do they still have the ostrich farm down the rode?

[Airbag]

Can only guess at this.  If you had a wasp nest, there could have been others.  I was told that there are also spiders that love the smell of propane and build nests in RV appliances often.  How is your supply voltage?  I know that my heater does not work if the voltage is down.

If you can not clean/fix it in place, then I guess you get to have the fun of removing it, but before doing that, you might want to go to some RV service guy and see what he says.  Maybe there is something quite simple that you do not know about.  At $800 it would seem worth trying to do something with.  If you end up needing another unit, there are probably other options that may be cheaper anyway.

We camped at Picacho Peak some years ago.  It's a great area.  Do they still have the ostrich farm down the rode?

Yep the Ostrich farm is still there, the wife say's they have deer, donkeys and other critters to pet and feed. It is a fun place.

I have a healthy respect for propane and that exhaust pipe has clinched the deal as far as removing the unit. I think I will install a stainless pipe in its place. The heater used to work great but sometimes things like this happen for a reason. It got me off my butt and inspecting what I should have some time ago.

The voltage should be good for I have two new shore bats that I keep charged (and the blower goes good) but the poor access does not allow a volt meter to be placed on it. Sure seems like a very important machine to bury under walls and things.

[JohnEd]

Airbag,

I have one of those vintage Hydroflames and it is a powerful and reliable heater.  It has a few safety features that should not be compromised.  I don't remember it all but there is a firebox over temp and there is a output air over temp.  These are little buttons just like in your home furnace.  

Then there is the thermocouple that sits near/in the flame.  It is bypassed during the lighting cycle for a few seconds and when it gets switched into the circuit it should be hot to allow the gas to flow.  If it is in the flame and the flame lights it is either good and your problem is elsewhere or it is defective.  The schematics were on line when Last I checked.  There are model groups and you have to be careful to study the info and make the correct choice.  Despite model number group clusters, mine was very different from the others in that same book.

You can screw up the connection and this thing will still work....amazingly.  Mine was MISSCONNECTED for a year and still worked fine as far as I could tell.  Well I learned that it wasn't OK and I was exposed.  The symptom I had was:  when the thermostat closed I got gas and flame immediately.  Then when the thermo switched off the blower quit immediately.  I wasn't alarmed at that and saw nothing wrong.  WRONG!  There should be a delay before the fan STARTS and another piece of time passes till the gas comes on.  Then, when the thermo opens the thing should run for a time to expel the gas/heat chamber.  Make sure that you have the correct operating sequence.  Verify my info with Da Book, please, for God's sake.  It should never ever NEVER try to restart by itself.  If it fails on start the blower will run forever or till things warm up for another reason....season change?

There is a "sail switch" in the firebox airflow.  If you aren't getting enuf air thru the furnace it will shut itself off shortly after lighting.  There should be absolutely "NO WHITE STUFF" down inside the pipe.  There is no in line filter.  Find out what that is and get it out of there.

The heat exchanger inside will rust out eventually.  That will release CO into the interior.  Fortunately, mine leaked so badly that it smarted your eyes and stunk of gas fumes.  Otherwise, I would have been killed cause I knew squat at the time.  You never know what you don't know.  Hydraflame sells the heat  exchanger and mine was such a bad fit I needed it welded on to get it in.  I sent them a letter after the fact and they fell all over themselves being sorry and trying to send me a free one....which I declined.  Good people trying hard.

Excellent furnace.  Mine is 48,000 BTU as I recall.  Model and part number are inside the door.  For ease of use, power, fast response, reliability and fuel convenience I would say they are worth $800.  I wouldn't ever pay that though.  Find out what is wrong and shop for used parts....except that big fire box heat exchanger....I would go "new" with that.

You should also feel a lot of very hot air coming out when the fan runs and flame is lit.  My hot water heater was disabled by spider nest/web.  Sent flames spewing 2 feet up the side of the coach.  Exciting!

With even rudimentary knowledge of DC circuits and armed with a multimeter you should be able to repair one of these things safely.  I urge you to press on.  Questions are smart behavior.

HTH,

John

[Airbag]

John
Thanks for the reply and The heater is behaving just like you said. The blower keeps running waiting for spring . I will get that stuff out of the inlet. The inlet is just next to the exhaust just to the left correct? I have taken a picture. It will look respectable when I am done. Looks nasty right now. Model and P/N has long since been removed inside the door I'm afraid. I am hoping it is written somewhere else on the unit. I have the same opinion of the unit being a great machine, it heats the bus in short order and runs about every 50 minutes or so.

[Tenor]

I had a 1973 coleman.  It gave me some problems with flame coming out the front and melted a plastic fitting to protect the iginitor wiring going into the fire box.  I finally figured out that all of the small holes in the cast iron burner were blocked with rust!  I'd take the time to pull the unit out and clean things, especially the intake.  You should not need to mess with the lp system.  Good luck!

Glenn

[Airbag]

Well guys I have been in the bus getting at it. I finally got to the point where I am looking at the unit. The fridge had to come out and getting the shelves that it resided under out was a nightmare. Fasteners hidden under boards that were attached with fasteners hidden under boards. had to remove the handles on the stove and cabinets and still wiped out the paneling. This was not buried but in tombed in a mass of silicone every board had a 1/2" fillet of the crap. WHY? This heater like the fridge was installed as if was never going to need any maintenance. I have not worked that hard in a while. That Norcold weighs as much as small Volkswagen.

Tomorrow I will remove the heater from the bus, I hope. It is bolted down and just can't wait to see what ridiculous set up I will find here. I am sure they have it bolted to the axle somehow.

Oh and still no brand name to be found. Whaaaat?

[Tom Y]

Airbag, How is your coach battery? If the voltage is low and fan speed is not fast enough it will shut down.  Goodluck.  Tom Y

[oldmansax]

Airbag,

You have my utmost sympathy!  I had the same problem a few months back. The heater quit in the middle on the night. Unfortunately, it was 12F that night. The PO had installed the heater, installed the water heater on top of that, & built all the cabinets & counter around the whole shebang. After trying to save the counter & cabinetry for a half a day, I resorted to the power saw & just cut the whole mess out. It turned out the furnace just needed cleaning.

GOOD LUCK!

TOM

[NJT5047]

A new Hydroflame RV heater can be bought for about around $400 bucks.  Just gotta look for them.    The dimensions may be an issue with the unit mounted beneath the fridge. 
I bought a new Hydroflame 31K btu, 7 years ago for $350.  I oughta sell mine.  I've got heat pumps and have used the Hydroflame once in 7 years.  Removing it would be too much trouble...notwithstanding the big hole left in the side of the bus.
You may wish to check with some of the recyling RV companies. 
Considering the damage that they can do, and the generally low cost, and the fact that heated metal rusts so quickly, I'd replace that sucker with a new one...or a very lightly used heater. 
Just a quick look at the 'eplace' found this Atwood heater...:    250364788148  The dimensions are listed for a reference point.   If memory serves, the exhaust/inlet doesn't come with these things....might want to check on that. 
There won't be any heaters that are a direct replacement for your heater...?  Shouldn't be too much trouble to install another...once the fridge is out of the way. 
BTW, the fridge compartment is sealed to avoid air exchange between the combustion of the fridge and the living area of the RV.   All fridges are in sealed compartments...supposed to be anyway.
Is it possible to modify the front of the heater cabinet so that the panel could be removed?  That's usually the return air intake and if removeable, it would allow most RV styled heaters to be removed thru the front of the compartment.  Pulling the fridge is going to 'manipulate' stuff that would be better left alone. 

JR

[skihor]

If you need/want a new unit try Ed @ Laurelhurst Heating & Air conditioning in Portland, Oregon. They have reconditioned/scratch & dent units for around 1/2 price.
503-236-2679 I got a 20K Suburban w/ thermostat & outside escutcheon for $225 shipped. It was brand new condition and has worked flawlessly.

Don & Sheila

[JohnEd]

The Suburban is a good unit.  I found it loud.  The real plus is that it is accessed from OUTSIDE the coach.  Then again it needs a really large hole to install it.

No matter what furnace you install you MUST get enuf ducts connected and those ducts cannot have 20 feet of dryer hose used as ducting.  The hot air output on mine is so hot it makes your fingers tingle and hurt.  I have carefully installed round ducts to minimize the resistance of the ducts.  The internal hot air overtemp will protect you but low air flow will cause it to cycle too much.

Low voltage will cause it to trip off the line BECAUSE there is not sufficient air flow to actuate the internal sail switch.

The furnace needs to be secure in its mounting.  Sliding around will give you exhaust leaks at the wall penetration and flex the gas line over many years till it cracks.  After removing the front square access cover you should see screws in the floor of the furnace.  These secure it to the floor.  A serious bump will let the rear portion of the furnace rise and fall.  I installed a 1X2 across the top rear of the furnace and screwed that to the wall.  The furnace is installed tight up against the wall.

That pic is of the exhaust and intake for the COMBUSTION chamber.  The neat thing is that the intake air is preheated by running it next to the exhaust.  Adds to efficiency and stabilizes the flame over a wider range of temps.  neat little furnace!

There is an instruction about adjusting the flame size.  All about color and height.  Blue is good and a lot of orange is bad....for efficiency.  They make replacement orifices so you can tune the thing.  I found the orifices were rare as hens teeth so I adjusted my coach gas pressure to get the furnace spot on and then adjusted the orifices for the refer and HW heater.  The stove I just drilled out as I have a knob on each burner....cab jet drills, now.  Do you know how to set the gas pressure for the coach?  Make the gauge out of plastic tubing and mark off the board for inches of gas pressure.  Somebody help with the design of this thing....simple to make but I lost it.

John

[Airbag]

I have determined that my heater is a Hydro flame of the 80's vintage which means it has been chugging along off and on for 20+ years. I downloaded parts and service manuals off this site here:

http://bryantrv.com/index.html

What a life saver taking the time to do that. Nick I'm sure you concure for all the help you provide here, and thanks by the way. My heater looks to have a stainless fire box so there might be a chance for revival. If not I will look at new. One thing is for sure access has got to be improved. I think I can make it slide out the front if a long enough gas hose is used and wires are extended. I can make a removable panel to gain access to venting pipes at the rear maybe use a foam gasket and not ridiculous cone ( silicone ). Thanks for the heads up on the fridge area sealing Nick. Maybe I was being too hard on the chap. If I can improve access then I won't mind getting some more mileage out of this unit. Cash is tight these days.

[Airbag]

Airbag, How is your coach battery? If the voltage is low and fan speed is not fast enough it will shut down.  Goodluck.  Tom Y

Tom I will check that tomorrow, it should be ok for the batteries are brand new and I keep a constant current charger on them and we were hooked to 50amps A/C at the time so the power converter should have been putting out 15A 12V DC. But who knows stranger things have happened.

[Airbag]

The Suburban is a good unit.  I found it loud.  The real plus is that it is accessed from OUTSIDE the coach.  Then again it needs a really large hole to install it.

No matter what furnace you install you MUST get enuf ducts connected and those ducts cannot have 20 feet of dryer hose used as ducting.  The hot air output on mine is so hot it makes your fingers tingle and hurt.  I have carefully installed round ducts to minimize the resistance of the ducts.  The internal hot air overtemp will protect you but low air flow will cause it to cycle too much.

Low voltage will cause it to trip off the line BECAUSE there is not sufficient air flow to actuate the internal sail switch.

The furnace needs to be secure in its mounting.  Sliding around will give you exhaust leaks at the wall penetration and flex the gas line over many years till it cracks.  After removing the front square access cover you should see screws in the floor of the furnace.  These secure it to the floor.  A serious bump will let the rear portion of the furnace rise and fall.  I installed a 1X2 across the top rear of the furnace and screwed that to the wall.  The furnace is installed tight up against the wall.

That pic is of the exhaust and intake for the COMBUSTION chamber.  The neat thing is that the intake air is preheated by running it next to the exhaust.  Adds to efficiency and stabilizes the flame over a wider range of temps.  neat little furnace!

There is an instruction about adjusting the flame size.  All about color and height.  Blue is good and a lot of orange is bad....for efficiency.  They make replacement orifices so you can tune the thing.  I found the orifices were rare as hens teeth so I adjusted my coach gas pressure to get the furnace spot on and then adjusted the orifices for the refer and HW heater.  The stove I just drilled out as I have a knob on each burner....cab jet drills, now.  Do you know how to set the gas pressure for the coach?  Make the gauge out of plastic tubing and mark off the board for inches of gas pressure.  Somebody help with the design of this thing....simple to make but I lost it.

John

John I agree with the duct work and I think it is at a minimum now most of the long runs are round metal duct. The flame color when It did run was orange either indicating a funky orfice or a lot of debris in the firebox? I will pay attention to this if I run this one again. Thanks.