Spicer - Easy for an experienced stick shift user?

[HB of CJ]

I for one am really happy and satisfied that each new generation in this great country has it easier and better than the older one.  Yeah, yeah, we have all heard the stories about how the snow gets deeper and the walk to school gets longer.  All up hill tooss....both ways.

Well, it's true.  Kinda.  Young people simply cannot, for the most part, even be expected to drive any type of automotive contraption nowadays that has a MANUAL transmission.  Oh, how quaint.....a stick shift.  "Duh...kind sir, I can't drive that pickup truck....it has a manual tranny."

How many times have we heard that before?  Some of our cool Bus Conversions are of an era that crash boxes were the rule rather than the exception.  I for one think that is great and kinda the point of all this.  Some/most of us are from an older generation, which is also cool.

No need to expand upon this.  Jimmie (Gimmie?) 4104 and 4106 Busses had crash boxes.  So did most if not all of the nearly other GREAT models of coaches.  Part of the fun of doing the Bus Conversion thing is that we have a CHOICE of deciding upon the type of transmission, which is also cool.  HB of CJ

[zubzub]

I like the crash box, makes me pay attention.  I'm with Gus on this, definitely the hardest thing I have ever shifted and I have never owned a vehicle with a slush box.  That being said as I read the the threads about the 740 etc.. it appears that the bus auto trannies have some good engineering and maybe one day I'll have a bus with one.

[WEC4104]

Over time, I have actually grown fond of my 4104's 4 speed Spicer. In the first year or two of owning my bus, I had dreams of one day converting it to auto.  But those thoughts have changed.  I don't know why, but I now view the manual shifting as something that adds to the enjoyment of driving my bus.  There is something about stirring through the gears that holds my attention and gets me more involved in the experience.  Today, I think if someone offered to convert it to an auto for free, I would decline the offer.   Sure, there are times when I am stuck in traffic and my left leg gets a workout, but I'll trade that for the improved fuel mileage.  Now if someone offered me a 5 or 6 speed manual, or a two speed rear, those would be something I'd have to consider.. 

[Lin]

WEC,

If anyone offers to switch out your Spicer for free, just give him my email.  I would let them do it.  I have had this for about a year now and am okay with it, I think I would prefer the auto though.  My preference is not so great that I would pay much for it, hence my interest in your Tranny Godmother.

I think I would also be quite happy with a 5 or 6 speed manual with synchro.

[pickpaul]

Isn't a Tranny Godmother a dude in bad makeup dressed in a pretty frock holding a wand?

[Lin]

You mean like J. Edgar Hoover?  Anyway, that's fine with me as long as he knows how to install the tranny.

[Dreamscape]

I am becoming fonder of my crash box, just wish the gearing was different in first and reverse!

You think driving one of these manual trannies is difficult try driving from the other seat. I am working here in Northern Ireland for a couple of week and it's just plain weird.

You sit on the right side with the steering wheel, you drive on the wrong side of the road, you shift with your left hand, turn signals on the right, Thank God the gas pedal, brake and clutch are in the correct position or I'd really be in trouble! Then you come to a round about, now that's for the sadist, you almost play bumper cars to jockey for position!

Can't wait to get back home to drive our Eagle with a manual crash box and sit in the proper drivers position and where everyone drives on the correct side of the road.

I'll never whine again about shifting these beasts!!!

Paul

[usbusin]

Yep, ain't driving on the right-hand side of the road fun!?!!  Had the same experience in New Zealand last year.  How about going into a shopping center parking lot without any stripes?  Sure have to concentrate to keep left.  On the rental car we had it had a sticker in front of the drive "Keep Left"! 

Thought I'd have problems when we got home and had to drive on the "correct-side" again.  None at all.  Guess after the 13 hour flight home I forgot all about the right-hand side.

Speaking of New Zealand, those Volvo buses with the 12-speed auto with manual shifting are really neat.  They literally "haul".  And, can they corner!  We had a great driver.

[gus]

I own a bunch of antique vehicles, a few of which are big trucks with manual trans. I also own two old fire trucks with Allisons. I have to admit that the AT are better for a couple of reasons. One is that low gear is infinite and the other is backing into very tight spaces. A diesel clutch cannot be slipped and this makes tight backing a real pain. Otherwise the manuals are no problem and even fun.

I have a couple of gassers with 5/2 trans and one big diesel tractor with a 10sp which is a joy, wish I had one on the bus.

I would like an AT for the 4104 but understand that it saps too much power from a 671 so I'll live with what I have. I like the 671, always did prefer straight sixes no matter what kind. If ever I should buy a bus with a V6/8 it would be with AT only, no question about that.

[rwc]

After a year in Thailand driving American vehicles on wrong side of road I came home and felt comfortable driving on the wrong side of the road until I came around a hard left curve and met a semi . I quickly realized that he was right and I was wrong.  I got corrected before anything bad happened but WOW it was close. My ears are still burning as Blue Blazes were coming out of the cab as he went by.  Rod

[RJ]

Paul -

It's always amusing to me reading other busnut's thoughts on shifting manual transmission-equipped buses.  Obviously, some love it, and some say phooey.  And that's ok.

Just like any other skill, some folk pick it up easily, others struggle.  I had to let a lot of beginning transit drivers go during their early training because they couldn't get the feel of driving a 40-foot coach, even with an automatic transmission, around the obstacle course in the bus yard, let alone on the street.  OTOH, when he was 17, one year after getting his driver's license, I let my son try driving my stick-shift GMC 4106.  After 30 minutes, he had no trouble at all going up or down thru all four gears as we ran around town, including a little freeway work.  (He now runs practice laps around the Nuremburg race track in Germany behind the wheel of a German 5-spd BMW M5 in his spare time. . . go figure.)  Everybody's different.

Learning the mechanics of shifting a coach is not that difficult.  Learning to shift smoothly, however, such that your passengers aren't aware of the shifting action, is something else again.  Mostly practice, but again, not everyone can do it.  And again, that's ok.

It is sort of sad that the real art of driving a manual transmission is fading with time and automation. . . nowadays it's mostly "stab-n-steer" jockeys.

I, personally, love driving the stick-shift in my 4106. . .

BUT -

I will not hesitate to recommend to 99/9% of the folk interested in a bus for RV use to buy one already equipped with an automatic transmission.  For the same reasons that the commercial carriers also use automatics, it takes one more thing out of the equation so the driver, theoretically, can concentrate more on driving.  That plus it's easier to train them, there's less downtime for blown clutches, and so forth.  In addition, in RV use, it's a whole lot easier to wiggle into a campsite with the automatic, or your spot at the stadium for the weekly tailgate party - not to mention easier to sell if or when the time comes to do so.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[JackConrad]

Great post RJ.  I would like to add that your significant other is probably more like to driving you coach if it has an automatic.  This could be very important should a medical emergency occur while you are on the road.  Jack

[Dreamscape]

Great post RJ.  I would like to add that your significant other is probably more like to driving you coach if it has an automatic.  This could be very important should a medical emergency occur while you are on the road.  Jack

I agree Jack to a point, cause that's why I'm sticking with a manual, my wife won't touch it unless it has an auto, can't understand why!

I Love Her Dearly,

Paul

[Charles Seaton]

Haven't seen it mentioned yet, but there are Spicers and then, there are Spicers.  PD4104, 06's and any of the other older GMs are a lot easier to shift than Spicer-equipped fishbowls and 4108.4905s.