Article on Hydrogen

[roger dolan]

    Article on hydrogen in last BCM mag about converting hydrogen from water, looks interesting. Any body know about this company. Looks to good to be true.
                                    Roger 4106         

[gus]

Roger,

It is too good to be true - a total scam.

I emailed Dennis complaining about it. BCM shouldn't be printing stuff like this.

[Jerry32]

I watchted a video of a 94 Dodge PU with a unit mounted on the front was showing 30 MPG on the indicator on the overhead. It was stated that the truck was getting 18 MPG before the install. There are many that are experimenting with all forms of devices and some seem to hold prospect of success. Jerry

[cody]

Don't get me started lol. All I'm going to say is that hydrogen is a very real thing for vehicles, I haven't seen the article so I don't know what that one is aboutm and I WILL NOT be responding any further to this, kyle.

[Jeremy]

It is somewhere between a 'very real thing' and a 'total scam' - but probably much nearer the latter than the former.

You can certainly produce hydrogen from water using electricity, but not in anything like sufficient quantites to make any difference to the economy of an engine. This to me is self evident in all the examples / kits / demonstrations on the net - in every case the hydrogen line is simply fed into the air inlet of the engine. There is never any equipment fitted to 'meter' the hydogen or anything to prevent a blow-back. If any useful amount of hydrogen was being fed into the air inlet it would either screw the engine's mixture control up so it wouldn't run properly, or sooner or later the hydrogen would catch fire in the air inlet.

I do have a gas powered car by the way, but the gas is propane not hydrogen

Jeremy

[Tony LEE]

"showing 30 MPG on the indicator on the overhead. It was stated that the truck was getting 18 MPG before the install."
One advertiser here claimed that installing LPG boost on a diesel engine increased the mpg from 20 to 30mpg - an amazing improvement - until it came out that this was 30miles travelled per gallon OF DIESEL USED in the gas boosted engine. Forgot to mention that it also needed a gallon of LPG to add to the gallon of diesel to get the extra 10 miles..

[Sojourner]

Roger....it good that you ask about Hydrogen. However, many of the Hydrogen conversion ads are borderline design system. The main important secret over all of them that are available is NOT the electric source of high frequency and off/on cycling to produce high production with very little current. In other words, all most all of the marketers are the high current version with low output.
 
Stanley Meyer have made the amazing working vehicle using low current HF, that can go from LA, CA to New York on 22 gallon of clean water using the "on-demand" system. Yes...it run only on water and air!

The main differences of Hydrogen system are the "storage system" and the "on-demand system"

Our petroleum companies are buying up the "on-demand" system from inventors to deter progression to take control of the fuel market system of the world. In other words, the "on-demand" system only need clean water or snow or ice at your disposal. Stanley Meyer is one of the few who refused the buy out and was poisoned.

A quote from 1870s
"I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable." – Jules Verne, The Mysterious Island (1874)

JULES VERNE WAS RIGHT May 31, 2006


A History of Hydrogen Energy and click on the first link


Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc.


Stanley Meyer: Water Car Inventor Killed... Full Story


Grove City Record, Thursday October 25, 1984


Hydrogen/Oxygen for welding & heating


The bottom-line is that your car battery is producing Hydrogen gases during the charging mode, however, in much lower quantity.
and it is sulfuric gases as well.

One of many Yahoo Group of Hydrogen/Oxygen Experimenters

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

BTW...if you ever able to find the way to run a vehicle on water for fuel only...be prepare for unknown guests to visit to control you. That the main reason for the hush...hushes. In other words, it no income to them (oil cartel). OPEC

[kyle4501]

Unbelievable article! "Thousands of systems have been successfully installed", yet there is no data. No before data on a test loop to establish a base line, no after data on the same test loop to show the improvements.

We tell EVERY potential newbie to NOT believe the seller of a bus without papers & physical evidence to support the claims.
Why should this be any different?


University researchers (who can show you test results & the conditions of the test) say more study is required.

People selling 'kits' provide fantastic "testimonials" from users & "test results" but don't provide any details of the test conditions.

Which is the more credible source?


BTW, I can identify (to anyone truly interested) a vehicle that has a 30+ gal water tank, produces all the hydrogen it needs while using NO gasoline at all & is a very dependable means of travel. Many reading this board have seen it. All this is true, but, is it enough information to make an informed decision?


If something relies heavily on conspiracy theories for support, that should tell you something . . . .
Also, if the defenders have to resort to emotional hype versus facts based on documented testing . . . .



I am NOT claiming this article to be a scam, I am ASKING for actual test conditions & results. Until that data is provided, I will assume if it looks, smells, & walks like a duck . . . .

The simple truth is that there have been many scams out there that won't work for the end user & a wise man will question any & all things that resemble a past scam.

[Hartley]

I haven't read that article as such.

I have experimented with the design of a booster which if I ever get the right
materials and housings made will be installed on my 7.3 liter Turbo Diesel.

However... Here' the rub on part of it. NO 2-stroke diesels have been tested to
my knowledge so using such as system on a bus with a Detroit may not ever be
a reality. This leaves most of us out of the picture.

Part of the other problems are that all of this is being done by either HACKS or
independent people which may or may not have scientific backgrounds and most who
have little or no cash to invest in real testing on calibrated systems. Results
vary from wild exclamations of sucess or absolute failure which depends on which way the wind happens to be blowing at the time.

The next big problem is electronically controlled engines, smog controls and computer sensors that validate and coordinate air to fuel mixtures in order to maintain smog and EPA requirements. These engines or computer control systems must either be re-programmed or fooled into changing A/F ratios in order to utilize the "alternate" fuel booster source. So far the "fool" part is not working all that well and anyone that tries to reprogram the fuel-computer and smog systems could be in for serious problems even if they could technically do it.

Now.. Who would stand to lose on revenue if such a system did work as advertised and was affordable to operate.... OIL Companies, Car Companies, EPA, Cities, Counties and States.. basically everyone that supports fuel taxes, Smog taxes and so on.

Where is the third carburator that was built in 1953 that could make a 66 caddy V-8 get 70 mpg?  ... It's still in limbo and was once at Smokey Yunich's garage.

# 1 Was stolen by the oil cartels and the Inventor was never heard from again...
# 2 Was taken by a Government agent to never be seen or heard of again...

The bottom line is the HHO and HO thing is not over and probably will never quite
attain recognition because it goes against big business and taxation....

OK, I will shut up now... I probably won't or don't want to answer for flames
that I am sure that I will get over this....

Dave...

[johns4104]

I agree with the above.
That article is only an idea.
No cost of unit, installation cost, life of unit, impact on the life of engine etc. etc.
What about results? what does this save in terms of fuel, hey how about performance.

I think someone was just trying to fill some pages that's all

John

[jr6715]

I was in A test on A hydrogen test on 379 pete with A 500 60 s detroit we got about 2/10 mile per gal. on 30,000 miles

[Lin]

I know nothing about the subject (that goes for a lot of subjects).  A friend of mine works with a company that does a complex mix of waste disposal, water reclamation, and energy production.  He says the owner also has a water/hydrogen booster system that he was selling very small scale.  I asked him if it would help my 8V71.  He said that it would give it a bit more power but, order for it to help with mileage, the vehicle needs an oxygen sensor-- hence no.  The guy seems very reputable and honest and has recently received major funding on other things, so this is being left alone.  I guess I believe that there can be systems that will work, and there can be interests that would try to thwart new technologies, but the internet is offering such a tremendous free flow of information that alternatives, if they exist, can not be easily kept secret anymore.

[Eagle]

Read the following article as Ford Motor Company has been producing HYDROGEN engines for awhile.

FORD MOTOR COMPANY in partnership with the Wayne County Airport Authority and the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments, has delivered two Ford E-450 hydrogen-fueled buses for use at Detroit Metropolitan Airport (DTW). As travelers are shuttled between terminals on the eco-friendly buses, CO2 emissions are reduced by 99.7 percent. These sorts of initiatives also reduce dependence on oil.

Powered by a 6.8-liter V-10 internal combustion engine that runs exclusively on hydrogen fuel, the highly efficient Ford E-450 shuttle buses have near zero emissions of regulated pollutants and greenhouse gases, and are also all-weather capable.

The Detroit Metropolitan Airport initiative is not the first time Ford has supplied the eco-friendly shuttle buses. Ford has also delivered the ultra-clean buses to Greater Orlando Airport Authority (GOAA), Orlando Convention Central District, SeaWorld Orlando, University of Missouri Raleigh, city of Las Vegas, the San Mateo (Ca.) County Transportation Authority, and 10 buses to Canada for use in Prince Edward Island, Ottawa and Vancouver.

The shuttle buses are just one part of Ford's broader effort aimed at developing multiple technologies for sustainable mobility. As Ford continues its research into hydrogen power as an alternative fuel, the E-450 will provide valuable real-world experience.

[Hartley]

Lin,

An oxygen sensor... I don't think so. Either he didn't know what an 8V71 is or simply was blowing you off because he didn't want to think or try to explain it.

In fact the one thing all HHO systems really need especially for a diesel is an EHT gauge.
Many exampled installations (youtube???) show them running with an unmodified diesel engines on such things as Duramax (chevy) and Cummins (dodge) engines, The additional EHT sensor and gauge were added and remote switches to turn on or off the HHO generators.
One had a Scangauge which showed impressive mileage boost on a Duramax on the highway.
(according to fuel flow measurements from the computer control (ECU) being shown using a scangauge.)

There are lots of hack jobs out there selling "FLUFF" for big money. The general rule is, If it's made of glass - Run Away !!! There are a a number of Yahoo group(s) following and sharing the knowlege and designs. Including all the details and diagrams. electronics and everything else. You have to figure out what is garbage and what works for your ability and application.

Like I said, I haven't hear of anyone trying it on a Detroit 2-stroke (YET).. But in that case if it did work it would take 20 to 60 liters per minute flow rate just to have any impact. The other big worry would be that extra addition of enriched gas going through the blower and parts of the engine under pressure. Might just melt down or explode??

4-stokes are a different story so far.....

Good Luck..

[kyle4501]

There is no doubt that hydrogen can be used as fuel.

The questions are about how the hydrogen is generated or stored.

Storage & refueling is one thing as it requires a very different handling procedure than gasoline. And a different infrastructure to support it.

On board generation will be the easiest on the person driving the car, but regulating the generation is not as simple as some would like you to think, you must be able to generate enough for peak demand AND be able to reliably stop generation when it isn't needed, otherwise the potential 'fuel spills' could ruin your day.


Current gasoline engines use a 'fuel map' programmed in the computer to meter the volume of gas supplied to the engine for the given operating conditions. If you simply add additional fuel without any changes to the 'fuel map', you will get random results, some good, some bad.

How can the simple add on kits provide the fantastic results claimed if the car's computer doesn't know it is there?
If it was so easy, don't you think the car manufacturers would have done that to increase their fleet mileage average instead of the expense of the hybrids?

My "negativity" is not toward hydrogen as fuel. It is toward the free lunch scams that defy the laws of nature.