Replacing metal tubing on a Eagle

Charles in SC · July 29, 2008, 06:02:39 PM

I have always wondered why nobody internally oils the new tubes to prevent new rust. I know some one doing an Eagle and his new tubes are already bleeding rust. What I would do is drill a small hole (one I could rivet shut) and spray fog some rust stop type oil inside each tube after welding. This is common practice on steel tube airplanes. When the tube is welded all of the forming oils are burned off of it.

Chariotdriver · July 29, 2008, 06:04:21 PM

Looks like lots of great info here!
Thanks,
I bought about 750.00 of mild steel today, yikes!
The plan is/was ( let me know if there is a problem with this) to put a level across the "long round shafts" that run forward from the rear axle to make sure the bus is level Port to Starboard.
The we could shoot some lasers at a line of rivets to make sure it is level front to back. Is this okay?
I guess this leveling is to make sure that when it is brought back down the new tubing is not put in a twist.
We bought some 2" square tubing to run 4 lengths front to back and have them tie into the same tubing across from side to side. We were going to jack up the metal pieces at the front and the back and tack it in temporarily then place the 4 pieces running front to back and weld them into the front and back pieces.
Pull it all down and weld the tops and then prime it also.
We also bought some 4" flat to "go over" the flats that are between the luggage bay areas.

This is the biggest part to accomplish as the other pieces are not that bad.
There is some previous repairs on the tag axle on the drivers side where someone welded in some gussets to prevent some cracking. The plan was for us to take some 3/16 plate and place it over the entire piece and weld it to try to keep the metal from cracking again.
Also some other simple fixes.
My brother and also another guy are some very experienced welders doing work on large boats that catch those crabs you see on Discovery Channel.
We're also using a stick welder as the Mig looks like a no no.
Any pointers before we plug in the welding machine.

Chariotdriver · July 29, 2008, 06:46:58 PM

Quote from: luvrbus on July 29, 2008, 05:59:40 AM
Phil they use a special tool to remove the rivets with out damaging the siding that you can buy from aircraft tool suppliers eBay has them also,use corten steel tubing to replace with , get the bus level and remove some of the weight from the wheels,bay door gaskets can be bought from Norris at Jefferson the aluminium strips are pop riveted on and most of the time clean up nice, you can buy any type rivet from Byler I use the shaved head when working on mine but again you need a shaver . be careful and remember that the bottom out side rails carry most of the load on a Eagle good luck.

I did call Byler today to buy some rivets, but did not know the length to ask for.
Is there a standard length for the skin?

kysteve · July 29, 2008, 07:06:13 PM

Phil,

Pull back on the raines a bit. The round tubes you speak of? I am not certain here what you speak of, my guess is you mean the torsalistic tubes or the link that connects the boggie spring to the drive spring. At any rate there is no way to be sure that they are parallel to the floor of the bus. Throw the level in the garage as it aint going to do you any good anyway. The bus wont care if its level or not. The main thing to be concerned with is that there is absolutly no twist in the bus. I need a little more info on what you are working on there. Is this a converted bus, seated, or just a shell?

..........Kentucky Steve........

Chariotdriver · July 29, 2008, 07:14:00 PM

Quote from: kysteve on July 29, 2008, 07:06:13 PM
Phil,

Pull back on the raines a bit. The round tubes you speak of? I am not certain here what you speak of, my guess is you mean the torsalistic tubes or the link that connects the boggie spring to the drive spring. At any rate there is no way to be sure that they are parallel to the floor of the bus. Throw the level in the garage as it aint going to do you any good anyway. The bus wont care if its level or not. The main thing to be concerned with is that there is absolutly no twist in the bus. I need a little more info on what you are working on there. Is this a converted bus, seated, or just a shell?

..........Kentucky Steve........

Converted bus, day coach.
I was trying to make a post correcting that statement as I caught it too late.
I now realize that the lower axles etc have nothing to do with the floor of the coach being level.
Could I take some shots with a transit to get the numbers on the lower baggage bay floor at the 4 opposite corners to make sure it is level?
Any other ideas as to where to compare numbers besides this area?

kysteve · July 29, 2008, 07:26:32 PM

Sorry Phil, I am still winding down from working on our Eagle tonight. Yes use your level. I suggest a four foot level or better. Level the bottom of the first cross member (front bulkhead) and Level across the engine cradle at the rear of the bus. Once these two are level (that is drivers side to passenger side) then you will be sure to have the "twist" out of your frame. You do not have to level the bus front to rear. Once you have the Twist outta the bus, then, throw the level in the garage

and measure to get parallel points off of the floor or bulkheads.

kyle4501 · July 29, 2008, 07:38:43 PM

The main purpose of getting it level before you start is that is is easier to put the new parts in the right place to start with. The closer everything is to plumb, level, & square, the easier later tasks will be.

Sort of like building a house, if the foundation isn't right, it is that much harder to get the floors & walls right. & if the walls & floors aren't right . . . .

I agree with Steve about the measuring, But if you level it front to rear in addition to sideways, you will be able to use the level as an additional check before the parts are fully welded. Sometimes I get dyslexic with the tape measure numbers & the extra check helps.

Mig welding is just as good as any, OR just as bad as any. It all depends on the quality of the work & technique. I use my mig for most everything & haven't had any problems with weld failures.

If you slow down a little & don't burn thru, you ain't welding hot enough!

The problem is moisture will get sucked inside the tubing eventually . . . . Will it be in 2 years, or 50? ? ? I'd consider spray foaming inside the tubes to keep the air out . . . .

kysteve · July 29, 2008, 07:55:23 PM

Kyle,

I forget sometimes that everyone isn't doing a frame repair project that last a couple of years...lol.... I have not worried about leveling front to rear as I am working on asphalt pavement and didn't want to rely on the bus not settling on its ageing wooden blocks. I have also been spoiled by not having any skin or baffling on the bus and can rely on a good eye across two members to double check myself. I forget how hard it would be to measure up to the floor to check the bottom of the baggage bay joist through two layers of floor skin and all the other "stuff" in the way.

......Kentucky Steve............

Chariotdriver · July 29, 2008, 08:30:57 PM

Quote from: kysteve on July 29, 2008, 07:26:32 PM
Sorry Phil, I am still winding down from working on our Eagle tonight. Yes use your level. I suggest a four foot level or better. Level the bottom of the first cross member (front bulkhead) and Level across the engine cradle at the rear of the bus. Once these two are level (that is drivers side to passenger side) then you will be sure to have the "twist" out of your frame. You do not have to level the bus front to rear. Once you have the Twist outta the bus, then, throw the level in the garage and measure to get parallel points off of the floor or bulkheads.

So If I level the front lower bulkhead, where all 4 long tubes are welded into, then level the Engine cradle, the baggage compartment flooring will follow and be level also as measured from the four furtherest points in the baggage floor?
Makes sense to me, hope I understood this correctly.
Thanks,
Phil

rv_safetyman · July 29, 2008, 08:50:36 PM

I would suspect that really good welders could use a stick machine. I am pretty fair, and would not attempt to use stick, since the tubing is fairly thin wall.

Please don't read into my comments that MIG is bad. It is VERY GOOD in the hands of someone who KNOWS what they are doing.

However, MIG beads can look good, but not be worth of hoot. The real trick is to get the "bacon sizzling" sound, have very clean metal, and know how to look for penetration (a good MIG book will give you some good visual guides).

Jim