102 D3s Below $50 K!

[NJT5047]

Well, Sawyer's Bus has a new lot of 102D3s in stock, some are below $50K.   Bus prices are coming down!   We're talking B500s and S60s in the 94s, some L10/B500 and HT748s in 93s.
That's my dream coach...that or an LeMirage XL.  Not really that keen in polishing all the shiny on the XL.  But damn they look good!     
Prevost isn't as easy to work on as an MCI.  That means something to an owner/mechanic.   
The MCI ain't as purty....but an MCI D3 is likely one of the best buses built so far.
102DL3s still command a good bit more than the D3s....fare operators want the 55 pax capacity.  I'm cool with a D3.  I can see this! 
I reckon the lower prices D3s are the dregs...but the price is heading in the right direction. 
I still have enough energy to do one more conversion.  This time I'm gonna have a flat roof, ducted AC, and....and I'm gonna install the headliner first.  Then hire out the fine woodwork. 
Anyone want to trade some mechanical bus (or motorcycles?  ) for some fine carpentry?
I'll be ready as soon as my ship comes in...the one with the bucks!
Hell, I may drive up to Christiansburg and drive one of those cheapo Ds and see just how worn out they are.  Most seem to have 600 to 800 K miles on the chassis. 
My concern would be old wreck damage.  I can fix mechanical issues (to a point), but cannot get into major body work because of wrecks.  That sort of damage is deadly. 
My old 87 is nice and square.  That's always been satisfying.  When I bought the bus, I had no clue what I'd be looking for.  I'm sure they figured that out rather quickly.  Still, I bought a good bus. 
Hope the next one is half as good! 
How many 102D3 have been converted by busnuts on this board?   I'd be interested in whatever issues were involved. 
I'm thinking of ....maybe....building a coach of sufficient quality to live in for extended periods.  My present bus would do this, but there are a few things that I'd change. 
Non-ducted ACs would be one item. 
I've been in Nicks coach...and that's where I'm headed.  Plan to farm out some things that I did poorly in my first attempt. 
Ya'll gimmie some ideas...like...where can I find a D3 for $25K..   I won't axe any questions!  I promise. 
Terri and me have a decent conversion.  Runs great, but the homgrown interior is something I'd like to get right the next time.   My exterior looks nice.  Just ain't a D3.   
I shouldn't fault my bus.  It's been in the family a long time and has never made me walk!  It's scared me once or twice, but I've never been broken down!! 
What about the new used D3? Any opinions?  I'll take the good with the  bad~!
Oh well.  We dream!  This could be my bluegrass retirement home.  Cool huh?
Build a small home attached to a bus barn with a pit and lots of EQUIPMENT!
JR

[tekebird]

800K thats only 1000 miles a week...those things should look brand new. with that kind of mileage.  of course....I would be planning on an eng and tranny rebuild in that price

[lostagain]

I drive a 102D3 for the hockey team. About 30 000 kms a year. Series 60, 7 speed manual. Awesome power. Goes up the hills with the cars. I like a manual and wouldn't mind one for a MH. Once you get used to this one, there nothing to shifting it. With the clutch brake, you don't have to engage 1st gear till the light turns green. The old fashioned dimmer switch on the floor is annoying on a long drive at night, especially that it is on that step and you have to lift your foot to it every time. I do the maintenance on it and it is fairly simple and straight forward. The fact that it is all stainless steel is impressive! Compared to my 1957 Courier 96 conversion... Also the D3 has ample head room for me. I'm 6'1". I have fantasies about buying it from the team one day to do my last conversion...

[Kristinsgrandpa]

   JR,    I know what you mean. I always wanted a C-3 after reading Tom C's post a couple of years ago about the headroom.

I'm pretty sure the D-3's are the same height, and the 60 series or the L-10 would be fantastic.

The coach I have only has 48,500 mi. on it (6V92 TA) and will last me a lifetime but I still want a C-3 or newer.

If I had a buyer for mine I'd go for a serious look.

Ed

[NJT5047]

Yep.  They (D3s and Cs) have more headroom.  And four stroke engines.  Some have B500 and 600s.  102" wide.  Much nicer dash.  New styled radiator.  No cap changes necessary..NO LEAKS around the windshield...or do they?  Do Cs and Ds have windshield leaks?  That would be bad.   
Studied them all.  Setras are also getting down into the almost-affordable range.  I'm afraid that the parts may be a little difficult to find..and maybe pricey.  Be like Brian's Dina what with high priced brake parts.   
I'd have to keep my MC9 until the D3 was pretty well completed.  Gotta go during the summer!
Prices may continue to drop for a bit.  Fuel and insurance costs are killing small charter ops.  They are the only market for these later model buses?   Maybe a few converters and chuches.
One thing's for sure.  I'm not going to do the interior woodwork on the next conversion.
Anyone with an idea of where those D3s at Sawyer's are coming from?   
Just thinking out loud!   
JR

[TrevorH]

I had heard from a friend that Greyhound just dumped a WHOLE LOTTA 102 MCI's out onto the market.  I dont know if this is where those have come from but its a possibility.

[tekebird]

the D's at Sawyers are almost all Ex Coach USA Units.....most of which were something before coach USA.

there were two from some outfit in CA, but I can't place the liveries

[coachconverter]

One of my customers just bought one of these a week or so ago.  They received it last week and are happy so far.  He said he would definitely buy another one from them in a heartbeat.

Hope this helps.

Todd

[NJT5047]

One of my customers just bought one of these a week or so ago.  They received it last week and are happy so far.  He said he would definitely buy another one from them in a heartbeat.

Hope this helps.Todd

I'd be interested to hear if the windshields leak on the D models. 
May I ask what area your customer is located in?   I'd like to see one up close...I'm 180 miles from Sawyer's.   
I bought my first 9 from Sawyer's.  Happy with that.  Just looking for my retirement home now! 
I'm gonna keep the 9 until the D is ready....could be a couple years??
I'd like to find a nice, under 50K d.  Not a DL.   40' is enough. 
Those buses that Sawyer's has with the ocean wave paint are the left coast units.  They've got L10 Cummins engines and some have B500s, and some have HT740.  I don't understand that exactly.
Anyway, keep the board posted on how the D performs and whether he has any major issues, or surprises. 
Now that I think about it, I belive Mike Kadletz has some of the same Ds painted up in blue and white with the waves on them.  Wonder where they came from.   I believe the S60 would be a much more powerful motor over an L10.   L10s are good engines. Just don't have the power and torque of a huge 12+ 60 Series. 
I don't wish any bad business on anyone, but I'm looking.  There's threats of a recession...I'll be really attuned to that market now.   
Fuel and insurance must be taking a toll on the small operaters.
I'm interested in the good and the bad on those 93 thru 96 used 40' 102Ds. 
Any tidbit of information will be appreciated.  What is Coach US?  Looks like dealer system Charter service?
Best, JR

[tekebird]

Coach USA was a brainchild of a lawyer who likes to build and tear apart businesses for profit.....he went around offering bus companies good money for their companies bought a whole bunch nationwide with the thought that he could move buses around regionally as needed for different heavy use times....

good idea...but that doesn;t work well when your Driver from New England is making 20 something an hour and the one from Alabama is making 10......driver's talk.

anyway....some Brithish outfit bought COACH USA, then sold some of the comapnies back to the original owners etc etc....you could write a book.

Needlass to say....no mater where the bus was owned Comapny Registration) that does not mean it operated there.

During the peak of Coach USA operation I would say they had a Maint program about as strict as Greyhound does.....and thats not saying much

they are good prices...


Coach Converter.....what mileage was on the one your client bought?  Was it a Coach USA or the other company

[buswarrior]

Yup, what he said...

Back in those years, we had 4 buses from San Diego up in Toronto, swapped between Coach USA/Coach Canada at the peak of that swapping around.

Those San Diego A3's were a sport's car driving charm, peppy 8V92, 5 speed shifters were crisp and the clutches were as light as a car. Fleet colour was brown.

Whoever the parent company in San Diego was, they sure kept them in tip-top shape!

In a few short weeks, they were gone all too quickly to points unknown.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[coachconverter]

Hey everyone, I believe my customer said it was a Coach USA bus.  Some of those are from Colonial Coach too, I believe the light blue and white ones.  I had a couple of their C3s and they were decent.

I'll ask him how it's panning out, but keep in mind that when he buys one he puts about 3 weeks into replacing just about every wear item he can find, including interiors and every single bulb.  He's meticulous about maintenance since he only runs older coaches.

Todd

[NJT 5573]

JR, check out Los Vegas Bus Sales, they have several 94s with the 60/6 speed Allison combo for $45,000.

[steveggt]

Hi JR,

I've driven a few D3's, but not too many.  I've driven a lot of DL3's, though.  My employer has four different batches of DL3's (1996, 1997, 1999, and 2003).  All are Series 60 with B500R.  We're in Calif, and all these buses were purchased brand new.  Corrosion hasn't been a significant issue.  However, a few other companies in the area have purchased used D3's and DL3's from eastern and mid-west operators, and there's a considerable difference in the condition of the bulkhead/structure/riser area between the engine compartment and tag axle as well as the area between the drive axle and rear-most baggage bin. 

I believe it all comes down to the quality of the maintenance program.  Although our buses are all west-coast coaches, some (mostly the oldest 1996's) have a few leaks around the windshield, but it's not too bad...just a quick bead of Sikaflex and thats'-that! 

Back to the rear structure area, I've noticed that some of the interior floors (mostly the oldest 1996's...again) have begun to show some cracks in the flooring material just over the riser between the drive axle and rear-most baggage bin.

Good luck! - Steve

[NJT5047]

That's interesting.   One would assume that the units being sold for less than $50K are the worse of the worst.   I had not heard about the rear corrosion problems on D models. These are things I want to know.  All coaches have shortcomings..and knowing where to look for these 'issues' can save a ton of grief down the road!
We've been over the DL vs D.  I'm thinking that the extra 5' may be more than most places where we use the bus would be taxing.  Good many campsites where our 40 uses all of the site.  Bumper's right up to the road.  5 more feet would definitely have us parking in that special city in Egypt.   
Been over the cost difference too.  Most DLs bring much highers prices.   The Ds are coming into the market and will continue to to so.  They are not as nice looking as the later Es, Js, and H3 models.  That's where most fare ops are going.   I still have not ruled out a nice, low milage, non-slide, pro converted Prevost XL.   They are not selling and the prices would have to be considered a steal...on some.   One issue, and it's a big one, is that most of the 'reasonable' priced XLs have 8V92s...rather a 4 stroke.  But.... for the right price!   
Have to check out the left coast units...as NJT5573 said.  'Course, you never know where the coaches have been operated? 
JR