The old GMs are getting really cheap. What are the risks ?

[Dave Silva]

25 years ago my older brother showed me his 1958 4104 and  I was hooked.    I still had a family to raise and back then a good conversion fetched north of $40K

In the years since, we've done tents, popups, hybrid camper, and now are pretty content with a Sprinter van.  We've taken our teen boys around the country twice. 

But now i'm seeing some very complete conversions for under $20K  And the sellers seems desperate.

thinking about going full time  for a couple years when the last kid leaves the nest and the 4106 is still calling me.

The BNO forum where i read every word for 20 years seems to be on life support.   

Young people seem to be attracted to Skoolies.   I'm wondering what is left of that community?

What sort on mechanical failures might be very hard to address on the road?

What's with all the Allison conversions?   At one time the consensus was that it was impractical and wrecked fuel economy but now is see lots of 4104 and 4016  with automatic transmissions.

Thanks

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[dtcerrato]

We've owned our 4104 for 46 years now. Owning a commercial bus isn't for the faint of heart. If one can perform their own mechanical work and handyman skills for the conversion portion - I'd say they are prerequisites for owning a bus conversion unless one has really deep pockets. Our take anyway. As far as Allison's & more HP. That's never been an issue with us. We're okay with literally smelling the roses as we pass and are gear heads so we're pleased to keep the 53 oem.running into the future. We'll be coming up on our 5th FL - AK round trip this summer if our maker spares. 

[luvrbus]

Price of the schoolies with modern 4 stroke engines and running gear, the easy of maintenance and a never ending supply chain for the school buses cheap parts and almost any shop will work on the Cummins engines and Allison WT . Plus they like living off the grid and not confined to pavement and Rv parks is what attracts new owners to school buses, Styling the schoolie have none ,but I seen some converted from dumpsters that put the highways buses to shame with the craftsman's work and features inside and people like the safety record on school buses. The inner city coaches and school buses both have their place in the bus world with owners. I like the 4106  and 4104 but never had a desire to own one or any V drive

[Dave Silva]

If one can perform their own mechanical work and handyman skills for the conversion portion -

Yeah, that's part of the appeal, a simple machine i can service myself.  But I'd also like the ability to write big fat check to a truck shop if something  goes wrong far from home.

I can do interior work but i don't love it so i'd look for something that doesn't need much.

[Dave Silva]

Price of the schoolies with modern 4 stroke engines and running gear, the easy of maintenance and a never ending supply chain for the school buses cheap parts and almost any shop will work on the Cummins engines and Allison WT . Plus they like living off the grid and not confined to pavement

Yeah, i like that about the sprinter- it's 2wd but still does OK off the pavement.

But I'm thinking. 4x4 toad will do the trick .

[Nova Eona]

I picked up my 4104 back in 2019 and have spent far more time working on it than taking it out, but that's part of the fun.  I'd say the biggest risk is that in many ways you're on your own - most shops won't touch them, so you'll have to find a local shop willing to tackle anything you don't want to take on yourself.  This is magnified on the road, but easily abated by just keeping enough cash in reserve to afford an expensive tow back home.  Many parts are still available, but sometimes you have to fabricate stuff.

Secondary risk is that I think a lot of these were first converted back in the 80s and 90s, so those RV components are on their very last legs; if it hasn't been updated, you can expect to have to replace/redo/refresh a lot of that yourself.

Finally, I'm not gonna lie, the tall 1st in these things is a bear.  Slopes and parking are a constant headache, and while I've gotten it out of some dicey situations without assistance, there's always the looming dread of getting stuck somewhere.  At the same time, there is something very satisfying about rowing those gears manually in your 60+ year old machine, and it is true that the autos eat up your fuel efficiency a bit.

At the end of the day, if you want a project you can take out for a weekend here or there, go for it!  If you want something that you can just take out for a spin and not devote much time to it between trips, get something newer that you can pay someone else to do more of the work on.

[chessie4905]

So are old MCIs, Eagles, and Prevosts. Younger generations have little interest in ANY bus conversion. Witness the rapid shrinkage of FMCA. They started including rv's and travel trailers to stop the bleeding. 5 to 7 miles per gallon is a killer anymore. A bus conversion is too expensive to own and operate anymore except for well heeled and very mechanically inclined.
Even here, Bno, and Facebook have fewer followers any more. Ask Gary. He knows.

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

So are old MCIs, Eagles, and Prevosts. Younger generations have little interest in ANY bus conversion. Witness the rapid shrinkage of FMCA. They started including rv's and travel trailers to stop the bleeding. 5 to 7 miles per gallon is a killer anymore. A bus conversion is too expensive to own and operate anymore except for well heeled and very mechanically inclined.
Even here, Bno, and Facebook have fewer followers any more. Ask Gary. He knows.

Fewer people are buying these over-the-road buses than there used to be.  It used to be that if you wanted a 35 - 40' motorhome, the only way to get one was to buy a bus and convert it yourself.  Then, manufacturers started building larger motorhomes. 

Also, when I was in high school in the early 70's, many of us took shop classes and learned how to rebuild engines and run machinery.  Those days are long gone and replaced with kids who only know how to use a keyboard.  So it is becoming increasingly difficult to find youngsters who can work on anything mechanical.  That being said, if they do have the inclination to convert a bus, it is generally a school bus with many fewer miles on it and can get serviced in many more places than a 50+-year-old Eagle bus like mine. Fortunately, I can do most of the maintenance and work on my bus, so I don't have to pay someone to do the work, which would make owning a bus not affordable for me. 

Many younger people can only afford a less expensive school bus and put every cent into converting it, then beg for money when they break down. But they are in a bus conversion for sometimes much less money than an over-the-road coach that will run millions of miles and more comfortably than a rough-riding school bus with no storage bays under it for tanks and storage. So, they spend more time hanging everything under the bus, which frequently becomes a disaster after hitting the first bump.  Truth be told, less than half of the people who start converting a bus ever finish it, and the numbers are even less for school bus owners.

The second thing that killed over-the-road buses is most do not have slides, so middle-aged and older folks prefer having more room whilst parked, especially if they plan to stay in their coach for long periods, thereby reducing the market value of used buses without slides.  So, being able to buy a manufactured motorhome 40' long was a significant first hit in the bus conversion business. Adding slides was the second big hit, along with the younger generation's inability to work on these old buses or even have an interest in getting their hands dirty.

Growing up on a farm, I never worried about getting my hands dirty. Or my entire body if I turned the tractor too sharp when spreading manure on a windy day. 

[Ed Hackenbruch]

It only takes a time or two of turning the tractor too sharp with the wind blowing, before you learn to pay attention to how strong the wind is and which direction it is coming from.....btdt.