Something is draining my battery

buswarrior · November 01, 2018, 06:22:34 AM

If that battery was bad from the store...

If the Vanner battery equalizer is properly deployed...

The Vanner will valiantly try to equalize... as it should...

All this foolishness over a bad battery...

What other wires are attached to the batteries?

If you leave a hose connected, there's going to be a leak...

At this point, a reset of the mind is required, and start over.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

edit - my Vanner stays directly connected inside the cut-off switch all winter, with no ill effects.
Disconnect it, wires off in correct order, temporarily, to get this battery set to behave, once behaving, add it back in and be sure it is not the culprit.

thomasinnv · November 01, 2018, 07:55:55 AM

If you suspect the battery is at fault, swap the batteries around and see if the problem follows the battery. I realize that you already replaced it, but something to consider if it happens again.

I replaced my 8D start batteries back in May, and in July one went dead (shorted cell). So it is very possible for a mb ew battery to fail. Has happened to me a few times over the years. The 8D seems to fail more frequently in my experience. Doesn't make much sense to me but whatever.

Jcparmley · November 01, 2018, 10:14:23 AM

Here are some pics. That might help.

Quote from: richard5933 on November 01, 2018, 03:47:21 AM
If nothing in the drivers electrical panel showed current when the battery switch was off, the next step would be to confirm the same at the electrical panel in the rear of the bus. I'm not sure where it is on your bus, but don't MCI buses have a panel in the rear near the engine somewhere?

You can also just check on the master switch itself. With both batteries connected and the master switch off, there should be no current at all on the load side of the switch. You said that you confirmed the switch is working properly, so then I'd check to see if something is connected incorrectly and is tapping into the battery side of the switch.

Sounds like you're still running the Vanner to get 12v from the 24v battery bank. This is where my attention would go. If it's failed or not hooked up correctly you could get the same results as not having an equalizer at all - one battery fully charged and one dead.

What it sounds like to me is that even with the master disconnect in the 'off' position, you've got something drawing power from the center tap - either directly or through the Vanner.

Can you post either photos of how this battery bank is connected or a drawing showing the wiring?

Jcparmley · November 01, 2018, 10:15:26 AM

Here are a couple more pics.

Jcparmley · November 01, 2018, 10:18:42 AM

I will check the rear electrical panel and if I find nothing drawing power I will disconnect the Vanner and install the new battery. I will make sure all the voltage is correct on both batteries when connected and wait a couple days. Then if all is good I will add the Vanner into the mix and see if the batteries go down. Does that sound like the correct plans?

Quote from: buswarrior on November 01, 2018, 06:22:34 AM
If that battery was bad from the store...

If the Vanner battery equalizer is properly deployed...

The Vanner will valiantly try to equalize... as it should...

All this foolishness over a bad battery...

What other wires are attached to the batteries?

If you leave a hose connected, there's going to be a leak...

At this point, a reset of the mind is required, and start over.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

edit - my Vanner stays directly connected inside the cut-off switch all winter, with no ill effects.
Disconnect it, wires off in correct order, temporarily, to get this battery set to behave, once behaving, add it back in and be sure it is not the culprit.

richard5933 · November 01, 2018, 10:59:35 AM

Quote from: Jcparmley on November 01, 2018, 10:18:42 AM
I will check the rear electrical panel and if I find nothing drawing power I will disconnect the Vanner and install the new battery. I will make sure all the voltage is correct on both batteries when connected and wait a couple days. Then if all is good I will add the Vanner into the mix and see if the batteries go down. Does that sound like the correct plans?

Sounds like it would help to determine if the problem is in the bus's 24v system or something feeding from the Vanner.

Quote from: Jcparmley on November 01, 2018, 10:14:23 AM
Here are some pics. That might help.

Not seeing any photos.

Dave5Cs · November 01, 2018, 11:18:56 AM

Its your Vanner. I found if I leave the vanner all hooked up while the bus is sitting awhile it will reduce the charge over time in one start battery if bus is not plugged in. If I disconnect the ground while it is parked no problems. Just a thought that I found works. The Vanner take a small amount of charge to run. HTH

HenryTX · November 01, 2018, 12:09:41 PM

I had the same issue with my 1981 MCI MC9 when I purchased it over a year ago.
I bought it from a friend who sold it to me with the "parasitic drain", and we always just disconnected the batteries when not running the engine.

Ultimately, to solve the problem, I took a volt meter to the main junction box on the exterior driver's side.
With the batteries connected but the Main Power Switch in off position, I checked each connection to see where power might be pulled from.
In the end, it turned out power was being drained from the batteries through several wires that previous owners had just left disconnected inside the cabin walls.
By disconnecting the unused wires from their solenoids in the junction, I eliminated the drain on the batteries.

I don't understand why it only drained one of your batteries, though.

Also, another obvious (but not so obvious) issue could be the "step light and chimes" switch.
Don't know if yours has one of these. But of course if you need it switched "on" to start your bus, then I guess you had probably also remembered to turn it off

buswarrior · November 01, 2018, 12:51:56 PM

Well there's the problem...

Where does that rats nest of wiring go?

No point shutting off the master switch with all that CRAP connected on there.

How many of those circuits are unprotected/not fused? Where do they all go?

You have 12 volt centre tap and 24 volt coming out of there.

If you get all that trash out of the battery box, put the 24 volt all together on a buss, and then create a 12 volt buss, with shut off between the centre tap and that, you have half a chance to get the draw to zero.

Be careful to label everything, as to where you take it off, way too easy to hook something up wrong.

The goal is a simple battery box, all the clutter needs to be elsewhere, so that it doesn't get disturbed or screwed up when working on the batteries, and also away from the battery gases and corrosion..

So, in there, big main battery cables, Vanner Equalizer, and then feeds to two main disconnects, 12 and 24. Everything else moved to newly created buss bars out of the way.

And protected from setting the coach on fire by a short circuit.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

Jcparmley · November 01, 2018, 01:20:39 PM

Pics are in post 17 and 18.

Quote from: richard5933 on November 01, 2018, 10:59:35 AM
Sounds like it would help to determine if the problem is in the bus's 24v system or something feeding from the Vanner.

Not seeing any photos.

Jcparmley · November 01, 2018, 01:27:18 PM

I haven't wired anything in the bus yet so everything in the battery bay is as it was when I bought the bus. So I'm assuming that the white wire and the small black are not normally there, is that correct? I am trying to determine what is "crap" and what is required.

Quote from: buswarrior on November 01, 2018, 12:51:56 PM
Well there's the problem...

Where does that rats nest of wiring go?

No point shutting off the master switch with all that CRAP connected on there.

How many of those circuits are unprotected/not fused? Where do they all go?

You have 12 volt centre tap and 24 volt coming out of there.

If you get all that trash out of the battery box, put the 24 volt all together on a buss, and then create a 12 volt buss, with shut off between the centre tap and that, you have half a chance to get the draw to zero.

Be careful to label everything, as to where you take it off, way too easy to hook something up wrong.

The goal is a simple battery box, all the clutter needs to be elsewhere, so that it doesn't get disturbed or screwed up when working on the batteries, and also away from the battery gases and corrosion..

So, in there, big main battery cables, Vanner Equalizer, and then feeds to two main disconnects, 12 and 24. Everything else moved to newly created buss bars out of the way.

And protected from setting the coach on fire by a short circuit.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

Jim Blackwood · November 01, 2018, 01:45:30 PM

Just to raise another point (and maybe start trouble, IDK) if the battery voltage was zero, how could they ever have determined that the polarity was reversed? Doesn't that presuppose that you have a 12v positive voltage on the negative terminal? And doen't a zero voltage summarily indicate no voltage of any polarity on either terminal? I don't think any sort of a residual voltage would count here, a lead/acid battery either produces about 2v per cell or it produces nothing. It can loose all it's current capacity and still give you that 2v, it just can't handle any load. So if he comes back with any kind of crap about there being anything less than 12v of reversed voltage it's nothing more than attempt to shift the responsibility for the bad battery off on the customer, you. Like getting you to accept a replacement battery without the warranty. Sounds to me like you got a bad battery, and now you have a bad battery dealer.

Jim

Jcparmley · November 01, 2018, 06:03:28 PM

That's exactly what I told them. They gave me the new battery but said that the warrantee dosen't begin new, so I only have a few months left on both batteries. I thought that was a very week policy. Perhaps I should call the corporate. The company is Batteries + Bulbs.

windtrader · November 02, 2018, 08:04:42 PM

Trial and error is shooting in the dark IMHO. Use a clamping meter that measures current draw. You will find the source in no time. Also, get the batteries tested. Good/bad - done.

chessie4905 · November 02, 2018, 08:29:33 PM

When a battery fails with ,say, a 3 year warranty, after so many free replacement months, the rest of the time could be prorated like tires. You pay some money for the new replacement battery. In any case, if it is free replacement and no prorating for so many months use, they don't extend your warranty. It is the original warranty time even with a new battery.
Btw, here: https://www.batterystuff.com/blog/battery-myth-can-a-battery-reverse-polarity.html