Not bus, but automotive!

[Lin]

http://wiat.com/2015/06/30/cars-com-says-toyota-camry-the-most-american-car/

[CrabbyMilton]

It's mostly perception whether we like it or not. FORD is my first choice for cars and light trucks yet my car was built in Canada. TOYOTA still makes us think Japanese yet the TUNDRA, AVALON and many other models are built here.

[Lin]

Yeah, and it's not only about where they are built, but where all the parts are coming from.  According to this study, there are only 7 car models that qualify to be called American at all!

[Iceni John]

It's slightly ironic that our buses (OK, except for the few decadent bourgeois European imports here!) are virtually 100% American content, and they have better engineering quality than most "American-made" cars!   Why is it that GM could make such magnificent buses and such crappy cars, even at the same time?   The fastidious attention to detail and overall integrity of design of my bus is diametrically opposite to the laughably-low quality that Detroit has foisted on the car-buying public here for many decades.   Evidently this country can, and has done so in the past, produce vehicles of world-beating standard, but most buyers now won't pay for true quality  -  they would rather get cheap junk as long as it has all the bells and whistles and electronic baubles that the advertisers have brain-washed them into thinking are necessary.  Our buses are a vestige of a time that will never return, when true quality was appreciated and understood.

John 

[Jeremy]

...And the wise customers who demanded (and were prepared to pay for) those long-life high-quality buses were typically venal, inefficient, money-wasting public authorities, while the customers buying the disposable, badly-built cars were smart and savvy individuals and well-run profit-focussed companies

Jeremy

[CrabbyMilton]

If things were indeed better in the old days, why don't the old days exist anymore? I'm not talking about morality or social ills but products and services. No doubt that the 1957 CHEVROLET was a good car. But at the same time, why isn't GM building it now? Even if they did, how many would they sell to make them profitable? Same holds true for the DC-3 airliner and FORD MODEL T.
Elevators once required operators but now you just push a button. We have lost favorite restaurants and stores. We loved them but not enough others did hence, they are now defunct. Some railroad purists are convinced that steam locomotives were better and few could argue the "nifty" factor they have. But we have had many generations of diesel locomotives that have proven to be better in terms of cost, reliability and other positives. My first car was a 1972 AMC MATADOR. Not really a bad car but obviously not the best engineered in terms of ride and comfort and other features. That car had a 5.0 V8 and put out 150 HP and got about 13MPG, burned oil and was rusted beyond belief when I got rid of it in 1986 at 106K miles on it. My current car which is no longer new but I had it for 11.5 years from new is a 2004 MERCURY GRAND MARQUIS. This car has a 4.6 L V8 and puts out 224 HP and gets 21MPG and higher sometimes. So while the so called older cars had their finer points, overall, improvements are a plenty. Look at the FORD F150 that has a 3.5L V6 that puts out 365 HP. That's more than a V8(no nice sound though) but it shows that sometimes things do improve.

[sledhead]

The problem with all the new cars will be with electronics . In 5-7 years old the price to find and repair the problems will be to high , so you will not be able to justify keeping them and this is what the car makers are striving for 

dave   

[CrabbyMilton]

Mostly true. In the old days, cars rusted into nothing though some collectors saved many. Now electronics fail at some point but seem to last 15-20 years and that's when most people traditionally speaking want to get a new car anyway. Heck, some people get tired of their cars after about 3 years. Can't blame the builders if people are fickle.

[Jeremy]

When I was a student I did a 9 month work placement at a corporate computer division of Fujitsu, who were going through a global quality training programme thingy at the time. One of the maxims they were trying to instill was 'quality is fitness for purpose' - ie, it's not about ultimate build standards, it's about how well the thing does the job for which it is intended. A hand-built Lexus LFA for instance is probably one of the highest quality (in terms of build standards) cars ever built in history, but the same company also builds the Toyota Yaris, which is cost-engineered to death and will be worn out and worthless after six or seven years. But both the LFA and the Yaris do the job for which they are intended supremely well and, in terms of lifespan-per-dollar, the Yaris will undoubtedly win every time.

But I completely agree that the world would be a better place if engineering advances were more focused on improving vehicle engines for instance, with vehicle bodies reverting to simpler, heavier-built, longer-lasting designs. There's a reason that (so they claim) over 75% of all Land Rovers ever built are still on the road.

Jeremy

[TomC]

I drive a 31yo Mercedes 300 Turbodiesel. No electronics, no rust, 24mpg with 482,000mi on it with no overhaul on either engine or transmission. It has 4 wheel disc, stops unbelievably well (constantly looking in the mirror when stopping), rides and handles like a car should.
31 years ago, most American cars (1985) were junk. Crappy, slow cars that handled worse, got miserable fuel mileage. We now have the best cars yet as far as fuel mileage, handline, safety, etc.
Even big rig Diesels, traditionally the most American made vehicles are world wide vehicles. Detroit Diesel DD engines-on the side of the block is cast "South Africa". The days of domestically made cars, trucks, buses are gone.
When you think of it, the el cheapo sticks and staples motorhomes are probably the most American made vehicles now-using Freightliner chassis with Cummins engine, Allison transmission, Meritor axles, Bendix brakes, etc. Good Luck, TomC

[Dave5Cs]

I sold my 1986 Toyota 4x4 4cyl made in Japan for 1500.00 (Donation to children's home charity worth) in 2002 with 379,000 miles. They actually are still using it to deliver food to elderly folks in the snowy hill country now through another charity.
I see them on CL now for 8,000.00?? Why because they keep on ticking and very little replacement parts. The new one I bought was a 2003 Tundra. At 10,000 miles the front brakes went. They replaced them for free. Another 10K and it happened again and they tried to charge me saying it was the way I drove. I talked to a friend that owned a Goodyear store and he told me that Toyota trucks then were made in Japan and the US. The ones made here have smaller rotors that will heat up and warp then throw pads or eat them fast and score the rotors.
I ask Toyota about that and of course they denied it.
Finaly I went to buy new rotors pads etc one day and do them myself and the guy says do you want the regular american size or the enlarged Japanese size. I laughed and he told me all about how they charged them because they didn't want to admit the american made trucks had the bad ones. He checked mt my VIN and sure enough mine was the American made truck up north. Those lasted me 50 K.
Now days even Harley parts are made in Korea, China and Germany and shipped here for assemble.

[Lin]

All of the major components of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner are made in various other countries.  They are flown here for final assembly on a specially modified 747.

[CrabbyMilton]

What a clunker that 787 is. Companies can produce all of the crapola they want but there's no law that says a grand old company like BOEING has to buy them. They ought to know better but perhaps they learned their lesson and will now have to get over that mess and build a good plane after all.

[Dave5Cs]

We fly on a Delta 757 to Jamaica last week and that was so tight you can't even walk down the aisle without brushing everyone you pass. We finally upgraded to Business to be semi comfortable although I think the seats were the same ones put in originally when Delta start business like the bottoms were made out of hardwood? Then we were 8 lbs over on our checked luggage and they wanted to charge us 100.00? I steped back and transfered some stuff to my carry one and said weight it again. loL

Dave5Cs

[CrabbyMilton]

The 757 is a good solid plane even though it's no longer built. Yes, the airlines do configure them with your comfort in mind. If you believe that, I have some oceanfront property in Nebraska to sell you. Can't blame the aircraft builder for that since the customer can configure it the way they want. Just like with buses.