Diesel anti-gel

[Geom]

Since it's starting to get colder, and as the fall gives way to winter, I'm curious of the best way to maintain the fuel in our bus. We've already had a couple of nights in the 30s and we're expecting to get below freezing this weekend for a day or two.
I'd heard that we need an anti-gel agent. Does anyone have a recommendation of what to use in these engines, what is safe to use and at what amounts? The tank is currently filled with a "summer" blend, I'm fairly certain; as we haven't filled up since May/June. We will be departing in a few days for a long trip, then we'll be stationary again (in freezing temps) for a while. So I have an opportunity now to get something in the tank to avoid problems.

Besides an anti-gel additive, anything else I can do to help ease the transition for the engine/fuel/oil/trans/power-steering/etc systems into winter?
Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
George

[luvrbus]

You don't need anything till the temps get down to around 10 degrees for long periods , but the most common anti gel additive is Power Service 

Back when you could buy real gasoline we just used a gal of unleaded gasoline for every 100 gals of fuel  fwiw 

[Jriddle]

Depending on how much you will be using your bus you might get by with filling with fresh fuel. The stations should be selling blended fuel soon.

John

[bevans6]

I run my diesel truck down to -20 all winter without any additives, fwiw.

Brian

[Oonrahnjay]

Depending on how much you will be using your bus you might get by with filling with fresh fuel. The stations should be selling blended fuel soon.
John

     There is a complicated matrix of location and date for blended fuel.  The farther north you are and the colder your climate, the sooner that they start with lower %-age blends and the stronger amount of "#1 Diesel" during the coldest parts of winter; of course, if they started cold weather blending early, it goes on later in the spring.  So, "the really far north" has had (probably gently) blended fuel for a while already but it hasn't started yet in the southern US.
     Since the strength of blending is less in Georgia than it is in New Hampshire, you shouldn't fill in GA on the way home from Arcadia and drive all the way.  If you hit cold temps, add some Power Service (white bottle - the silver bottle doesn't do anything for cold) and fill with "local" fuel as you move north.  Also, the white bottle PS has an additive that disperses water in your fuel system.  Many vehicles have been stopped in cold weather by frozen ice buildup in their fuel (probably filters are the most touchy about it) even if the fuel hasn't gelled.  If you use a product that disperses the water, the water molecules (or at least micro droplets of water) are pushed through the fuel system and burned with the regular fuel -- this is good because you don't want to have it in your fuel system.

     BTW, there is an informal inconsistent use of the term "#1 Diesel Fuel".  I'm pretty sure at the refinery, the product known as kerosene is sold as #1 diesel fuel -- the ordinary middle weight fuel oil, used in diesel engines and home heating oil, is called #2 Diesel.  In some places, if the ordinary #2 is blended with the #1, it may be marked "#1 Diesel Fuel" on the pumps but that is really a shortcut for "blended with #1 Diesel fuel".  On the other hand, if you go *way* North, the fuel there is probably 100% "#1 Diesel because any percentage of #2 will give you a fuel that will gel in the extreme cold temperatures.

[TomC]

Just dump a gallon or two (whatever the bottle says) of Power Service into the fuel tank, run the engine and be done with it. Power Service doesn't get rid of the water, it mulsifies it to the point that it can be passed to the filter and not crystalize (turn into ice). I've been in -20F degree weather and was able to start my 8V-92TA with ether. Good luck, TomC

[Geom]

Thanks all, I appreciate the info.

I went ahead and picked up a big bottle of Power Service.
It does sound like it's not something I have to worry about until it gets really cold.

So here's my dilemma,
The bottle says NOT to use it unless the temps drop (stay) below 30.
While it's currently above that, and likely to stay that way for a while still, Midwest weather can be quite unpredictable. When we move in a couple of days, this'll be the last time before we move again for a while. Then it will quite likely be under 30 consistently. So I wanted to get this stuff through the system and sloshed around the tanks during the drive.

So my question is this, does it harm anything using it now?
Should I use half strength (since it says to use double strength if it gets really cold)?
Is there a concentration issue pouring it into an already full(ish) tank (vs adding when refueling)?

Thanks again.

[Jriddle]

Run the power service and don't worry. I have had no problems running it after the winter months. You just don't need the extra cost when the temps go up.

IMO
John

[TomC]

Power service can be run by a Diesel at 100% without harm. Diluted, you have no worries. Good luck, TomC

[wg4t50]

Just a note, have had "Summer" fuel Gell at 18f, big surprise, so my thoughts are; If you last fueled with the summer mix and then head into winter weather, might like an additive.  Just my experience.
Dave M

[bevans6]

Just as an aside, if you have a modern diesel vehicle that uses a high pressure fuel pump (most do these days, HUEI and MUI are long gone) then I've been advised to never use any additive that has alcohol in it's mix.  Even my Ford 6.0 PSD with HUEI has that advisory.  The idea is that the alcohol emulsifies the water and carries it through the water traps into the injection system, and can have catastrophic results.  That's why I never put any additive in my truck.    Apparently it costs north of $15K to put a new injection system on a Ford 6.7 PSD, and if it's caused by water in the fuel it's not covered by warranty.

Brian

[Oonrahnjay]

Just as an aside, if you have a modern diesel vehicle that uses a high pressure fuel pump (most do these days, HUEI and MUI are long gone) then I've been advised to never use any additive that has alcohol in it's mix.  Even my Ford 6.0 PSD with HUEI has that advisory.  The idea is that the alcohol emulsifies the water and carries it through the water traps into the injection system, and can have catastrophic results.  That's why I never put any additive in my truck.    Apparently it costs north of $15K to put a new injection system on a Ford 6.7 PSD, and if it's caused by water in the fuel it's not covered by warranty.
Brian 

      Price quoted for similar on an '07 - later VW Jetta TDI with high pressure common rail is $12K, also not covered by warranty.

[luvrbus]

I don't know what is in the makeup of the Power Service is but it will freeze my pickup had a fuel heater on the filters and going across WY in 1985 the fuel started to gel. I had bought a qt of Power Service in Tx just in case I needed it so I stopped to pour in the bottle as it was in the bed of the pickup and it was froze solid, duh then I read the bottle "keep from freezing"

[eagle19952]

jet A solves that problem as well does 0w30 for it's intended purpose...

[Oonrahnjay]

I don't know what is in the makeup of the Power Service is but it will freeze my pickup had a fuel heater on the filters and going across WY in 1985 the fuel started to gel. I had bought a qt of Power Service in Tx just in case I needed it so I stopped to pour in the bottle as it was in the bed of the pickup and it was froze solid, duh then I read the bottle "keep from freezing"

    Yepp, salt freezes at 1470º (or thereabout), water freezes at 32º (or thereabout), but them together and the salty water freezes at about 0º (Fº for all measurements).  PS will freeze by itself, put it in diesel fuel, it lowers gel/freezing point of both.