Radius rod bushings

[jjrbus]

 I replaced my front bushings with no problem, just lots of pain pills! I did the bottom rear on the drivers side and am now working on the upper rear, drivers side. I removed the 4 nuts that hold the rod on and removed the plates. The upper end of the rods attach in the middle of the bus to a shaft that is held in place by 2 bolts. I was told to loosen the two nuts and drive the shaft to the opposite side to remove the radius rod. I loosened the 2 nuts, put a pipe on the shaft and hit it with a sledge, nothing, nada, no movement, like hitting an anvil. Has anybody done this, any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.  This is a 1979 MCI5C 6V71 with an automatic and drop box.

[LUKE at US COACH]

Hi jjrbus and Folks:

We see that all of the time in our shop.

First, I must ask:  Do you have your coach body supported, as well as your rear axle???

If not, you must support your coach body, as when you remove those top rods, your coach body may shift and if only the axle is supported by Jacks,the coach could could off of them and You are under it!!!!

Now, with the understanding that the Axle and Coach are fully supported on a Hard Surface,  You will need a broad chisel to drive, from the top of the axle downward to, open up both sets of Fingers that hold the pin in place. Then with your sledge hammer and driving tool, the pin will move from side to side. When reassembling, and after cleaning all surfaces, apply a thin film of White Grease, and it will be much easier to remove next time.

Many times, in our shop, we find that the pin is the original and because of where it , it is exposed to weather, has rotted and pitted to the point of needing replacement.

I hope this HELPS!!!! and if you have any questions in your mind as to how to proceed as a result of my post, please don't hesitate to call me tomorrow, Eastern Time toll free at:  1-888-262-2434.

Happy & SAFE!!! Bussin' to ALL.
LUKE at US COACH

[jjrbus]

 Thanks Luke! Nice to know you are still monitoring the board. I'm at my father in laws in Arcadia. Maybe I'll wait for you to come down for the rally, to finish the job!!

[Len Silva]

Luke,

I haven't done the job yet, but my 4104 Maintenance Manual (written more than 50 years ago) says to use no lubricant, not even water on the bushings.  Comment please.

Thanks,

Len

[JackConrad]

Len,
   Luke may have been talking about using the grease on the pin to re-install it in the boss on the differential housing. The 2 piece polyurethane bushings from IBP that Jim is using come with a small container of silicone lubricant that is to be applied to the bushings. I do not know what, if anything, is used on the OEM style rubber bushings.  Jack

[Brian Diehl]

JRBus,
On my 96A3 I had to REMOVE the bolts holding the pin in place in order for it to move.  The design of the pin is such that the bolts slide into a slot on the top side of the pin such that they hold the pin in place.  Without removing the bolts I never would have been able to get the pin out.  Worked for me.
-Brian

[jjrbus]

Thanks Brian, I know on the MCI7 there is one bolt that has to be removed (fits in a notch) But the bolts appear to be higher than the shaft on the 5C ( I could be wrong) So I will try removing the bolts next.  Len my manual says the same thing, " no lubricants" but Luke is refering to the shaft. I do not know if the polyureathane bushings are available for your 4104 but they do require grease. Some things have changed in 50 years.

[Tom Y]

Jjrbus, Like Luke and Brian said I had to remove the bolts on my 5C and spread it a little to slide out the pin.  Tom Y

[LUKE at US COACH]

Hi Folks:

When I mentioned lubrication, as previously stated by others, I was referring to the Pin Surface!!!

If installing the original rubber bushings, no lubrication is recommended.

With the New Polyurethane bushings, lubrication is provided by the parts manufacturer.

Now, let let me just pass along for all, my experience with the Polys.

When they first came out, I was still operating buses.  We put a set on an MC-9 that ran 300 miles per day, six days per week.  It did not take long to reach 90,000 miles at which point the original rubber bushings no longer met Federal DOT specs, due to wear.  And, I might add that the radius rods were in good condition.

We did not get any more miles out of the Polys than we did with the original rubber bushings. 

We stock them,and  we will install them in our shop, or ship them to a parts customer, if that is what a customer wants.  But I must caution that they will not compensate for "Worn Out" eyes in your radius rods.  And yes folks, the steel rods do wear out in the area of the rubber bushings!!!  Most rods, including those  for the older GM's are still available, although pricey.

Just some food for thought, for all reading.

Happy & SAFE!! Busssin' to ALL, and Happy Thanksgiving to ALL.  Lord knows, we all have so much to be thankful for, living in this Home of the Free and Land of the Brave!!!

LUKE at US COACH

[jjrbus]

 Hey Luke,  There is nothing in the manual about the rods wearing out. It only says to check for craks by magnafluxing. How do we inspect for wear???

[LUKE at US COACH]

Hi Jjrbus and Folks:

When the original coach manuals were written, I am sure that the manufacturers and their writers had no idea that in 2006, someone would have a converted 1953 4104 on the road that today  is 53 years old, or a 1964 MCi 5A that is 42 years, or a 1980 H8H649A GMC that is 26 years old, or a 1973 MC-7 that is 36 years old, and I could go on.

The problems we see in our shop on a daily basis, and which you folks out there are experiencing, were not anticipated by the manufacturer or their technical writiers, as buses were not built to last for ever, although some may!!!!

After working in the bus industry for 44 years, that is what keeps me interested, namely solving new problems on a daily basis!!!

Now to your question, and please understand that it is not always easy to solve problems via this machine.

We know what a new radius rod looks like, so it is easy for us to know a worn rod when we see it.

When we remove some radius rods, on the inside of the rod, there is a stepping down of the steel, from the high point in the center of the eye, transitioned to the outside, because the rubber has worn down the steel.

But the best way for you folks out there to check is to place the new rubber bushings in the "EYE".  It will not be tight because it must be centered when installed back on the coach, and will be compressed by the outer retaining plate.  When installed in the rod, there should be a small amount of play between the bushing and the rod.  If it "Flops" around like a 1/4 inch bolt in a 1/2 hole, then you may have problems.

With the Poly bushings.  Install 1/2 bushing in the rod and look through the rod from the other side and see how the outer surface of the bushing mates with the rod, with the understanding that they too will compress.  Also look at the outer surface of the bushing to see how far it falls into the rod, with the understanding that the two bushings will be compressed by the out plates.

I said at the beginning that this might not be easy to explain here. And you may know as much after reading this, as you did before it was posted, but I hope it gives those reading some clue as where to start.

I Hope this HELPS!!!

HAPPY and SAFE THANKSGIVING TO ALL!!!  And, PLEASE!! remember our Boys & Girls who are serving this Beautiful Country tonight, away from their families, so that we may be SAFE!!! and FREE!!


LUKE at US COACH

[kyle4501]

Hey Luke,
I heard a rumor thar the bushings were not available for the 4501's. Is That true?

Is the rubber available? Is poly?

I don't need them right now, but I will before I put these girls back on the road. (~a year or so)

Thanks for your help!
kyle4501

[LUKE at US COACH]

HI Kyle & Folks:

I have the rubber bushings in stock.

On the rear there were two types of steel clad (with rubber innards for the 4501's which, as far as I know are not available.  Some of the rears had a center through drilled hole and the others had a tapered inner member.  I  had a bunch of them and sold all of them after many years. I believe the original manufacturer was GOULD. Perhaps the tooling still exists to manufacture them.

I Hope this HELPS!!!

LUKE at US COACH