Series 50 in a 4106?

travlinman · October 14, 2010, 04:26:14 PM

Thought I would ask here first. I am wondering if it is possible to put a series 50 in my 4106? The bus currently has an 871 / 730. Here is what would be great to know:

- Has it been done?

- If so, who is the expert on this?

- Sources for the engine / install ?

- Costs?

Thanks

TM

mlh1936 · October 14, 2010, 07:47:59 PM

Last I heard John Silver at Central FL Bus Repair in Lakeland had a few available.

Hard Headed Ken · October 14, 2010, 08:14:05 PM

I have installed a 6V92 / V730 in a 4104 and currently I'm attempting to install a Series 50 / V730 in a Silversides (plus a Series 60 swap in my 1988 Prevost). I'm reasonable sure you'll have to use a differential housing from a 96" wide RTS. Your current differential housing has the differential offset to the passenger side about as far as possible. The reversing gear housing sets the transmission several inches more reward (guessing 4 to 6 inches). That requires the differential to be more toward the center of the housing because of the angle. If your diff ratio is not 4.125 you're really going to need it for this swap. If your ratio is 4.125 you might be able to use a housing from a 4104. It's really hard to nail down a cost. You can find RTS's with the Series 50 in a wide price range 5 to 10 thousand for the complete bus. It's going to take a lot of labor. A rough guess would be $25,000. There is so many things that have to hand build or modified, engine cradle, exhaust system, intake, air filter, drive shaft, wiring harnesses, radiator, radiator mounts, intercooler, intercooler mounts and plumbing. Almost forgot the floor will probably have to be raised over the valve cover area. (So maybe $30,000). The V drive adds a lot of complication plus the need for an intercooler and electronic controls. I hope this helps. I don't want to discourage you I just want you to know it's not a simple swap. Two of the things you need maybe hard to find, the 96" wide RTS and a 4.125 ratio gear set for a RTS or GMC differential.

Ken

Boomer · October 14, 2010, 09:12:42 PM

Bernie at Bernhard Bus put a 50S in a Silverside and did a beautiful job. See at www.bernhardbus.com Not for the faint of heart or light of pocketbook.

Lee · October 15, 2010, 10:48:27 AM

What about engine rotation? 4106 is left hand, I know there is 730 or 731R and just maybe if you can get everything from an RTS, all will be well!
Lee

TomC · October 15, 2010, 12:59:11 PM

Series 50 in a V drive uses a reverser gear (V731R) before the transmission. Personally-If you have the time and money, great conversion. Just make sure you replace the two balance shafts under the oil pump-this is the single biggest problem with the S50. Then use soft engine mounts, and you'll have a 10-12mpg bus. Good Luck, TomC

travlinman · October 16, 2010, 01:47:37 PM

Thanks for all the great replies, now I have somewhere to start and a few more questions!

Is there anyone on the west coast that has done one of these?

Ken, are you doing these conversions yourself or having them done?

Tom, what is your source for the fuel economy?

Thanks again guys,

TM

TomC · October 16, 2010, 02:28:58 PM

Greyhound replaced many 6V-92TA with the Series 50 in the MCI-9's and got close to 10mpg. So with your lighter situation 10-12 should be easy to obtain. Good Luck, TomC

robertglines1 · October 16, 2010, 02:39:07 PM

can a t-drive from a transit be used?to long?

Hard Headed Ken · October 16, 2010, 03:42:30 PM

TM I'm doing these engine swaps myself. I did the 6V92 V730 in my 4104 many years ago. I think Tomc's guess on the fuel mileage is about right. I looked at the Silversides that Bernhard did and spent a lot of time talking with the owner. He says his averaged 10 MPG. He had the 8/33 ring and pinon set.

Robert even though the B500 is a very short transmission (I think about 2 inches shorter than the Autoshift / Ultrashift we're using) I don't think there is enough room for a T-drive in a 4106 without extending the engine compartment. Mike, the original of BCM put a T-Drive 6V92 / 740 in a 4106 (maybe a 4104 I forget) and he had to extended the back of the bus. I know the Series 50 / B500 would save a few inches, but probably not enough.

Ken

Hard Headed Ken · October 16, 2010, 07:09:14 PM

I almost forgot about differentials with drop boxes like Eagles use. That might allow enough room for a Series / B500 T-Drive setup for a 4106. The drop boxes that Eagles use are offset to the left leaving very little room for a radiator and charge air cooler. Jim at RV Safety Systems has had a challenge relocating his charge air cooler and moving enough air through it on his Series 60 swap.

Ken

uncle ned · October 19, 2010, 01:08:55 PM

I have seen the series 50 in the big mci. how about the 35 ft ones. The engine department looks smaller,the top lower.

this is one with a 6v71 non turbo.

How would you run the fans if you have to cut the top to clear the 50.

uncle ned

DMoedave · October 19, 2010, 06:43:46 PM

The drop box does help with the room. That is what was done with our 48 coach with good results. I have no idea how a modern engine or trans would adapt to a drop box. A stock 06 can do pretty good with fuel milage if you can just slow down. trade off with that auto.