DDEC to computer (not scanner), what is needed?

[Busted]

Want to hook the DDEC to a computer for codes, reprogramming, etc. Not talking about the scanner route. I've gotten plenty of opinions, old wives tales, I think's, all varying. Want to hear from someone who actually knows how to do this thru experience. Everything I have is DDEC II, via 8 92.
Thanks!!!

[Hartley]

NOT gonna Happen... Proprietary binary codes used.

[Sammy]

You need an interface,cables,etc.
You need DDDL software - Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link.
That's how I do it. You will only be able to program some parameters - engine protection, VSS,etc.
Sammy 

[Busted]

Thanks for the reply.
Cable is obvious, seen different ones. Heard about software, but which one & where to obtain it? DD guys I know (at DD facilites) say "Man, just get the software". Of course, DD acts stupid about it. The software is as obvious as the cable. As far as the interface, I have seen a few made by DD. I know that some software uses an interface, & some do not. Been told that the newest versions of software (last 5 years or so) need no interface. Been in plenty of shops that use standard laptop & cable & hook direct & reprogram all day. I know this stuff is out there, but where, what, & how to get? That is the question.

Sammy...
What DDDL software? What interface & cable? Where obtained? I see proprietary DD stuff for sale here & there, but don't know what I need, or what will work.

Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[Sammy]

Busted, check out Nexiq website - you need one of these and the DDDL software - http://www.nexiq.com/Catalog/product_detail.asp?GID=6&Brand=Vehicle+Interface+Products&display=MORE&part_no=126032&item_id=92
See them on Ebay once and a while. My buddy bought one for $550 - didn't work.
I'm sure you've heard these stories too.

DDDL is only available from a DD dealer.I've seen older versions for sale here and there.I used a 1997 version 3 and a 2000 year version 6 and both required the interface. If you consider buying a used version of DDDL, check out DD website for registration procedure for it - very important.Make sure it has all proper documentation.

It's a great diagnostic tool if you're running a fleet, it's an expensive investment for just one coach.
Was told it's about $2000 for the DDDL software only.

I recommend a ProLink scan tool and a DDEC2/3 cartridge. It's all you'll need to take care of your coach.
Sammy 

[Sean]

Detroit does not actually make or sell this.  The DDL, cable, and software is made and sold by a company called MPSI.  Bear in mind that the interface is different for DDEC-II than for later models.  MPSI, BTW, is the same outfit that makes the Pro-Link.  You can find DDL's and Pro-Links, along with the required DDEC-II cartridges and cables, readily on eBay.  (They are *very* expensive if you buy them new.)

There isn't anything you can read or change with a PC and a DDL that you can't also read or change with a Pro-Link (with the proper cartridge).  What the PC will allow you to do is keep a longer history of information, and see it in graphical form (so, for example, you can see a horsepower graph over time).

Incidentally, third-party devices such as the VMS units from SilverLeaf (who also make a PC version) tap into this same information, but can only read from and not write to the DDEC.

When you say "programming", if you mean things like, for example, maximum engine horsepower, the answer is no can do.  To change the "program" for any DDEC engine, it needs to first be entered into the mainframe at DDC headquarters.  They then download the program to one of their authorized distributors, such as W. W. Williams, or Stewart and Stevenson, and then the distributor can load the new program into your ECM.  This is how Detroit ensures that, for example, if you pay for a 250HP engine, and you want to upgrade to a 400HP engine, they get the additional money from you for the extra horsepower.  That may seem unfair to you, but it's the way the business operates.  If it's a 300HP engine, the original buyer only *paid* for 300HP, not the max possible (for an on-road DDEC-II 8v92TA) of 475.

The program on the mainframe back at DDC is a tightly guarded trade secret -- even the distributors can't access it directly.  That being said, there is a black market in reprogramming ECM's in the truck industry (just listen on the CB around places like Kingman).  However, I doubt any of these places (who have, no doubt, reverse-engineered the programming paradigm) could reprogram an ECM as old as a DDEC-II.  The technology for reverse-engineering the process came along long after DDEC-II had passed from the mainstream trucking business.

What you *can* change with the DDL (or a Pro-Link) are things like enable/disable Jakes, speed sensor pulses-per-minute, cruise control parameters (including min and max cruise speeds, and whether using cruise enables extra HP), max engine and/or road speed, and those sorts of things.

FWIW.

-Sean
(Who has a DDEC-II ECM and extensive/expensive experience with it)
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[Sean]

Whoops...

Sammy's post came in while I was typing, and he's right.  It's Nexiq now -- used to be MPSI.  I forgot about the change -- who can keep up?

If you go on eBay, search under both terms, because many sellers have older units and list them under the old name.  (I've also seen Pro-Link's listed under Detroit Diesel, Ford, GM, etc. -- it's a multi-purpose tool.)

-Sean

[NJT 5573]

If you just want horsepower and RPM, you can upgrade to DDEC 3 and Pittsburg Diesel will fix you up with the rest. I researched the records on the Greyhound fleet at my local DD dealer and they upgraded most buses from DDEC 2 to DDEC 3. I can only guess that maybe DDEC 3 gets better fuel milage. I don't know what else would drive them to change. Does anyone know?

[rv_safetyman]

I had not checked on the status of the Pittsburgh Diesel add on computer for a while.  They have a new website:  http://pittsburghpower.com/

The DDEC kit for III and IV is $2395.  Add to that the cost of the new ECU and the wiring harness adapter for II to III and that is a ton of money.  They only discuss the performance enhancement of the Cummins engine, but I would guess that similar numbers are possible with DDEC.

It is kind of neat to have the ability to dial in your power.  If you start off with a fairly low HP rating, that would make it possible to dial-back the power to the base rating and get better mileage and then dial up the power for the "hills".

Neat idea, but pretty pricey.  It used to be that DD would increase your power for $1 per HP.  At least that was the story most folks talked about.  However, it is very hard to get them to increase HP now for a variety of reasons (I would guess EPA had a strong voice in that decision).

I lucked out and someone had my ECU dialed up to 475 HP.  That is plenty for me.  I still slow down a bit on the really big hills (well over 40K with the toad), but nothing like the old 6V92

Back to the original subject, I think you would be better off with the Pro-Link.  It is very portable and is typically used by many HD diesel shops. 

Jim

[captain ron]

My buddies son builds the Pro link and I was supposed to get him info on what I needed to get me one at a STEEEEEP discount I'll have to get on that again.