Checklist for pre inspection of possible purchase

[Ace]

If I remember, once upon a time someone composed a checklist for inspecting a bus prior to a purchase. Not a REAL inspection by a certified mechanic but an inspection of general stuff. Does anyone know who composed this checklist or does anyone know of such a thing? Not talking about a pre-trip checklist, but rather a pre buy checklist!

Thanks
Ace

[BusCrazyTom]

If such exists, I'd love a copy as well.

Thanx
BusCrazyTom
currently a BusNot

[Sammy]

I'm sure we can create a fine one, with all our collective experience.
Say the word and we'll get started....
Sammy 

[Ace]

Ok Dallas, I wasn't really looking for jokes about little ole ladies! And I really didn't ask for all of you guys to start naming different things to look for although it probably would work if the original list doesn't appear.

I just thought there was a list already out there that someone had composed a while back!

Ace

[Dallas]

Sorry Ace, I was trying to help.

Consider it deleted.

Dallas

PS: I wasn't joking. People will tell you anything to get you to buy.

[ChuckMC9]

Things to check when purchasing:

http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/7199.html?1096668791


Buying a bus checklist:
http://www.busconversions.com/newsboard/articles/72544.html

Bus for Sale Guide Seven Commandments for Success
http://busforsaleguide.com/commandments.htm

Ace, please change your title so that others may find the info later.

[Ace]

Thanks!

Change my title? I'm lost!

This one doesn't work! 
http://www.busconversions.com/newsboard/articles/72544.html

Dallas, no harm done! I just know how sometimes these things can get carried away with BS post! I was really looking for a checklist that was already in existence! I know with everyone here there could be a zillion ideas as to what to look for and what NOT to buy because of but at one time I thought there was a list that had you actually look for items and check them off in accordance to how excellent, good, bad, very bad, etc.

Maybe I was dreaming of one and just need to start a list!

Thanks
Ace

[ChuckMC9]

Change my title? I'm lost!

Change it to: Checklist for Buying a Bus

!!!

The title could mean anything, perhaps even a checklist for how to use the bathroom!

This one doesn't work! 
http://www.busconversions.com/newsboard/articles/72544.html

Ooops, from the old board...
And look at this magic, here it is reincarnated:

Buying a bus; checklist
Posted by bruce king (67.183.139.39) on May 11, 2005 at 04:26:53:
so you're gonna buy a bus. You are probably going to?travel to some other city to pick it up, or inspect it. Whats on your list of items to check?
I've seen having the oil analyzed -- what does that tell you? Dyno ride -- what specs are "good" for various busses. Is there a place you can check dyno specs for any random bus? How do you find a bus-oriented mechanic in a strange town? Local greyhound shop? trailways?
I'd particularly like to hear a rundown based on the coach you bought. I've got an mci-9, and after 3 years of going over it with a fine-toothed comb i've got a good idea of what i'd look at in an mci 9 -- but no idea about a 102dl3, or 4106, or whatever. Are there secret things that cost you some skull sweat to figure out?
?



Re: Buying a bus; checklist - mci 9
Posted by bruce king (67.183.139.39) on May 11, 2005 at 04:45:12:
In Reply to: Buying a bus; checklist posted by bruce king on May 11, 2005 at 04:26:53:
Chassis: Check the rear wall of the rear bay. Rust problems will show up on the corners of this wall, where salt spray tends to blow in.
Open the engine compartment and look at the condition of the blowers at the top of the compartment -- lots of surface rust or rust throughs? rust in either place means you have a bus that has or will have air beam problems -- air resevior that feeds the airbags in the front and rear and in serious cases structural rust.

Fuel tank: In the mci 9 they're made of aluminum, and mounted on an aluminum sheet or directly on the stainless frame rails. Battery acid tends to leak over the years and corrode the?bottom of the fuel tank nearest the battery, and contact with steel and water will corrode the tank as well. ?Look for: Battery acid leaks in battery area. any trace of diesel fuel below fuel tank after its been parked, or fuel seeping from the bottom of the fuel tank in the air conditioner condenser area. Use your noise and smell around in that area. Smell diesel? Might be a rust through.

?Engine: Detroit diesel engines slobber oil. it's normal to find oil seepage all over the engine. Fill the oil to full, and then put a flattened refrigerator box under the engine. ?Fast-idle the bus on this for 20 minutes. remove and inspect the cardboard -- a few teaspoons of oil are ok. A few tablespoons are cause for concern.

Fuel lines: The fuel lines enter the engine compartment on the ceiling -- find then and trace them. Any diesel leak is an immediate fire hazard -- make sure that the lines are properly attached to the ceiling of the compartment. THey build these with steel screws into the aluminum, and the screws come loose and drop the fuel lines onto the top of the engine, or let them hang by the copper supply lines -- bad news. Must fix immediately. ??MCI 9s will have crud in the cold air/heater ducts. If you are converting one of these, plan on cutting the plywood down the entire length of the bus in the aisle and then using air or a broom to clean out the nasty stuff thats down there. removes oder. You can't inspect for this - it's present in every bus. figure 3 to 5 pounds of human hair per decade of service.

A brake job on one of these busses can run $3k. Getting one with good breaks means you have maybe a year or two of good use before you need anything done. Have the brakes inspected before you buy.

In my opinion, an mci-9 with an 8v71 is underpowered. You want an 8v92, with 6v92 being?less desirable but better than an 8v71. My 8v71 slows to 15-20mph going up most mountain passes in my home state of WA but seemed fine when i was on the east coast or driving in kansas, say.

Check to make sure that the windshield wipers both work, and that the sprayer works. Its $200 a side to fix the damn things if they dont.
??

Re: Additions to checklist - mci 9
Posted by Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81) on May 11, 2005 at 08:35:14:
In Reply to: Re: Buying a bus; checklist - mci 9 posted by bruce king on May 11, 2005 at 04:45:12:
Look carefully at the seals around the window, the ICC and position light gaskets for cracks and aging. Even if in good condition study carefuloly the exterior aluminum a couple of inches above the bay doors. Leaks from seals and gaskets will soak the fiberglass insulation in the walls. It will hold a tremendous amount of water. The exterior skins will show corrosion "bubbles" under the paint a few inches above the bottom edge. If so, count on lots of mild steel rust under the windows.

Having done this twice, I wouldn't cut the floorboard to clean the heater ducts. I'd remove the floor boards so I could give all the underfloor area a good cleaning, especially the tops of the airbeams. [3-5 lbs of hair, skin, bandaids, etc. per side, maybe!] The odor of both is decidedly diffferent after this stuff was removed. Not so much of an "armpit" anymore.

Count on removing the radiators, fans (forklift time!) to clean, repair and replace seals, etc. I feel this is as obligatory as brakes for MCI's. Just buckle down and do it rather than repeat the learning curve we've witnessed so many times on the BB.


Look at the wheel wells very carefully for rub and debris-caused holes. I didn't and was surprised and the amount of dirt packed in, above the wheel wells and below the floor. We're talking inches deep. It holds moisture and will corrode the numerous mild steel bracketry below the floorboards.

Likewise for the pitman arm penetration into the compartment below the driver's seat.

[ChuckMC9]

• What to look for when purchasing!

What is the exact year and model #?
What is the engine model?  Was it original equipment or upgraded later?
What is the transmission model?
Have the engine and transmission been rebuilt?  By who?
Is there a warranty on the rebuild?  Is it transferrable to the buyer?
How many miles on the engine and transmission?

Do you have a history of who owned the bus and where it was operated?
Is there a verifiable maintenance record with receipts or invoices?
Is the coach currently in service (i.e., running routes or tours)?

Does the engine run without missing, leaking, or smoking?
How much oil does it use?
What kind of fuel mileage does it get?
Does it start without problems?

Are there any known problems with the running gear?

Does it have a Jake's brake?

Does it have integral power steering?  Original equipment or upgraded later?
Loose or tight?

Do they do scheduled maintenance?  How often?

Drive routes?

RUST INSPECTION
===============

Check all rubber seals around marker lights, windshields, side windows.
How new is the rubber?

Check bottom of windshield divider along the dash.  Any corrosion under the
vinyl?  Any puckering?  How much (inches each direction)?

Windshield seals -- condition, shrinkage, caulking?

Below marker lights and side windows.  Rivets show puckering?  Other signs
of corrosion ("painted over welding spatter")?

When were rubber seals last replaced?

Rubber seals around windows at bottom of post between windows.

Sit in each bay, looking outward toward upraised door.  Examine beams for
rust.  Signs of repair or painting.

Look at air beams between tag and drive axles.  Any plating/brazing?
How long does it stay aired up?

Radiator supports in back bulkhead?

Are the sides straight?
Any rust on the frame?
Any rust in spare tire compartment?
Any rust in bays?
Any rust in radiator area?
Any rust in engine compartment?
Any rust in wheel wells?
Any rust creeping under side windows?
Any rust creeping under marker lights?
Any known leaks?

Do all bay doors open, close, and lock?
Are bay doors banged, dented, or dinged?
Rear engine door open?
Are tires included?  Brand, age, and tread depth?

Air pressure before starting?  At idle?

Color smoke when starting cold?  How long?

[ChuckMC9]

Bus buying Seven Commandments /I thought it was cool.

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Posted by Sam (69.107.92.64) on December 29, 2005 at 18:49:31:

We never saw these three years ago when we purchased. Boy!!!!!!!
Came across these and thought they were great.
Hope this can be of some help. Don't imagine author would mind re-print.

Seven commandments governing the purchase of any make or model bus. Break just one of these rules and you will probably be sorry for the rest of your life, possibly ruining your bus ownership experience altogether.

I - Thou shalt NEVER buy a bus that has rust on critical areas of frame or supporting body, this cannot be permanently fixed without a huge expense.

II - Thou shalt NOT buy a particular bus for which you have not determined your source for repair and replacement parts. If you can't find a supplier in a month then you probably will never find that part. Many are surprised when they see attractive $30,000+ buses sitting idle and don't realize it is normally due to replacement parts problems.

III - Thou shalt NOT purchase a project bus, one in need of substantial conversions or repairs, without a clear, accurate cost estimate, deadlines and plan for completion. "Great bus buying deals" can quickly become embarrassing "projects that never get done".

IV - Thou shalt NOT purchase a bus until you have identified exactly what problems you are trying to solve or what needs you are trying to meet with the vehicle. The needs of a church for an inexpensive shuttle bus vary greatly from those of a wealthy musician traveling 90,000 miles a year. You may have many choices in the market but only ONE will be your best solution - and the path to happiness starts with identifying exactly what you need...NOT which pretty bus the salesman can get you financed for the quickest.

V - Thou shalt NOT buy a bus without a complete professional inspection of major parts, engine, transmission, frame, electrical, and air conditioning. Warranties, service records, and history of vehicles use can be very valuable in helping determine value.

VI - Thou shalt NOT purchase a bus without an absolutely verifiable title with year of original production in place. For instance, it is legal in many states to "re-title" an older bus, say a 1980 model. First the dealer will make repairs and renovations up to DOT standards. Then they can legally re-title it. The new title will say, for instance, year made, 2004. There is nothing wrong with this as long as it is disclosed and the price reflects the value.

VII - Thou shalt NOT purchase a bus for charter use or church transportation without having a complete business plan in place, including insurance costs (which are routinely underestimated), license fees, maintenance costs, repair estimates, and breakdown contingency plans. Financing is typically the single most important issue to handle correctly after customer retention.