Opinions on rust belt candidate

kinson · April 12, 2019, 05:31:51 PM

Hello all! I took a look at a few buses fairly local to me and would like some input. One is a 1993 DL3 with a 2-stroke(8v92?) and an old 4-speed auto(ht750?). There is obviously some rust and I would like to know if it is salvageable and roughly how much work/money it would require. There is 80k on the odometer, so it was either changed or is over a million. I know they often fail and need replaced in school buses, but does it happen with coaches at all? I've read poorly maintained DL3's have de-lamination issues and I believe a few pictures capture this. The underside tag and drive axles don't look as bad as I've seen from this area. Can anyone spot any compromised areas? Are there only negatives in choosing this drive-train over a S60 or is it a worthy compromise(maintenance/reliability)?

The other was a 2003 Gillig Phantom with an M11. It has a bad compressor, but I figured something could be rigged to get it home for repair. The rust issues seemed much worse on this bus, but I'll ask for input anyway.

The auction ends tomorrow morning so this is pretty last minute. The first 11 pics are of the Phantom, the rest are the DL3. Let me know if any mistakes/issues.

https://ibb.co/album/m2GnwF

Shaky video mainly for sound. The exhaust was to my left and I didn't notice any significant smoke. Maybe a white puff.
https://youtu.be/lrhP44dXG1U

eagle19952 · April 12, 2019, 06:52:56 PM

what is/are the current bids ?
rust looks minimal to non consequential to me.

kinson · April 12, 2019, 07:20:49 PM

Quote from: eagle19952 on April 12, 2019, 06:52:56 PM
what is/are the current bids ?
rust looks minimal to non consequential to me.

It's a live auction that starts in the morning. You bring up something else I wanted to ask though. How much is too much for something like this?

windtrader · April 12, 2019, 07:53:54 PM

Check this out before bidding. I saw these in person. Shop hard as there are real deals out there.
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33782.0

kinson · April 12, 2019, 08:15:27 PM

Quote from: windtrader on April 12, 2019, 07:53:54 PM
Check this out before bidding. I saw these in person. Shop hard as there are real deals out there.
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33782.0

I followed along at the time and even posted multiple times in that thread. I know the S60/B500 is more desirable, but would the reliability of the 2-stroke and 4 speed sway anyone if you got a better deal? Recently, I've seen people buy rust-belt buses for close to what southern buses go for which is ludicrous. Who knows how much interest it will have tomorrow, but I'd like to take a stab if it feels right.

DoubleEagle · April 12, 2019, 08:26:25 PM

You have to decide whether either of these buses appeal to you, and whether you want to spend a lot of money and time in converting them. It is more practical to consider one of the many coaches that are already converted, but if you are handy and mechanically inclined, and want to do your own design, then go for it. Chances are both buses will go for less than $5,000 each, unless there are redeeming qualities which you can see in person. If you can't road test them, then they are worth less. The Gillig's I have seen are very solid, but they are not necessarily a good conversion coach. The MCI might be a better bet, but there are many of them for sale. Unless you are happy with one of these, and the price is very cheap, I advise that you keep looking.

luvrbus · April 12, 2019, 09:00:15 PM

The D's with a 8v92 are not a desirable coach it has 2 radiators and fans across the rear check that area if the radiators are not in good shape those will set you back $3500.00 plus $600.00 for each fan,the rust is not that bad but check the air bag plates above they are thin and with rust the bags will go through the floor inside the bus and not a easy fix BTDT

LOL I see Walter has a new toy with a modern gear train good deal Walter enjoy your series 60 a true Eagle lover with 4 now a little OT

kinson · April 12, 2019, 09:33:59 PM

Thanks for the input guys! I tried to focus on the tag/drive axles and the tops and bottoms of the airbags. They looked better than I expected. Naive old me did not get a picture or eye on the radiators. I knew I would forget something and I probably won't get another opportunity to inspect. I realize that most here are used to an oil analysis and test drive, but these government and third-party auctions just don't allow it. It does make me feel uncomfortable without those and a professional inspection.

Jim Blackwood · April 13, 2019, 06:49:18 AM

Having recently bought a DL3 for $5250 I'd say shine it on. I think you can do better.
Now that's not to say that deals like that are just laying around to be picked up, I had to work for it. But it wasn't my only option. If you can justify a purchase cost of $10K inclusive of peripherals like transport, inspection and fees you can get a very nice bus. The key is to not get in a hurry. Any time you do it cost time, money or both.

I suggest you look at the D series. I ended up with a '96 which is really a good choice. It has the 60, the B500, and the Eberspaecher (webasto) aux heater with 80K btu of heat. It has kneel, rear raise, and some have tag axle lift I've heard. 13+K btu OTR A/C. Many come with aluminum wheels. It's a rather tremendous starting point.

Jim

windtrader · April 13, 2019, 09:43:18 AM

Kinson,

Some of the buses from the auction were just pulled from service. If you look at the photos, one of them is a pre-trip inspection checklist dated Dec 2018. That means at least from a safety perspective, all major bus systems were fully functional. The county would never put passengers in a bus on a public road with any known issues.

Some may say that buses are run to the point where it's been determined that sufficient repairs are on the horizon, so they get put out to pasture. In this case, these are part of some government program to get EV buses on the road, so these are leaving the fleet.

If your budget does not afford looking at buses that are lovingly maintained and documented like many here, it seems a no brainer to view a bus like these examples as excellent candidates if you are converting DIY.

The worst case is you find an issue, put it on eBay, and double your money.

Ditto the Series 60/BT500 powertrain combo that universally get high fives.

DoubleEagle · April 13, 2019, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: luvrbus on April 12, 2019, 09:00:15 PM

LOL I see Walter has a new toy with a modern gear train good deal Walter enjoy your series 60 a true Eagle lover with 4 now a little OT

Cliff, you are still very observant! Yes, I just got the 45' Model 15 with the 470 hp Series 60 w/Jakes. The bull gear bearings have been checked (condition of sale), and they are within specs at 666,000 miles. It was an entertainer from new, and was built up by Leber Coach in Bushnell, Florida. It needs to be painted, and the tires need to be renewed, but I drove it 700 miles to get it home. It's unusual as it has two generators (they wanted backup). One is a 17.5 Kw PowerTech, and the other is a 15 Kw Wrico. Both have Kubota diesels. Underneath a pile of parts, I discovered that it has a Webasto DBW-2020 23.3 Kw. There are three roof-top A/C's, and four CruiseAir basement units, and a Magnum inverter (of unknown size). It looks like it truly spent most of it's life down South, because I don't see much rust compared to others. I don't want to say how much I paid for it to avoid embarrassing the previous owner, but I offered less than half what they were asking. This is a good sample of what can happen if you are willing to look far and wide, and consider many.
I was happy with my Model 10, but my wife did not like to see my son-in-law duck his head every time he was in the Eagle with 6' 2" ceiling. The only catch is, I'm not hearing fine 2-cycle music, but I guess a good recording from good speakers will solve that.

kinson · April 13, 2019, 10:14:05 AM

Thanks again to all and thank you Jim and Don. My primary plan is to find a city maintained DL3 because, as WT says, they would be the best bet in terms of care they have received. I still keep my eyes open for a diamond in the rough however. I have passed on these. I could not attend in person, and apparently there is a 3 day waiting period for registration to bid online. Even if I was able to, I was still undecided. Now I'll wait to see how much they went for... Nice one Walt

chessie4905 · April 13, 2019, 11:18:10 AM

Keep in mine the kind of roads that city had. City busses can have much looser bodies, strut bushings, king pins, tie rod ends, windows, etc, from all the potholes, curbs, rough roads.also, noisey rear ends and transmissions aren't as much an issue when used on short trips. Go to a major city like one in New Jersey or such. Couple of years ago, rode about 6 or 7 MCI's of the same model while visiting. Some of them ran like swiss watches, at least three sounded like the rears or bearings were bad, some had transmissions that whined or growled.
Point is, drive whatever you plan on buying, besides checking for rust.