Uneven tire wear on trip

[Buffalo SpaceShip]

Hey Folks:

We're one-third of the way through a 3,000 mile, multi-leg trip and I'm noticing some VERY uneven wear on the front tires of the bus. The outer edges of the tires are worn. When we bought the coach in March, I noticed some pax tire wear, and the P.O. said the front tires were never replaced while he owned it. He also said that it needed front shocks. I should probably re-pack the wheel bearings, too. Now, I'm wondering if it also needs alignment, based upon the driver's tire showing the same wear pattern after only 6,000 more miles since we bought it.

So here's the potential list:
2 steer tires
front shocks
wheel bearings
alignment

My question related to sequence... what should be done first to last so's to not adversely affect the other? Shocks-bearings-tires-aligment?  My wife says I should get tires for the rest of the trip (for safety), but I'm telling her we'd just chew 'em up if we don't do the rest of it.

I can do the shocks and bearings... but would LOVE to wait until we return to have the time to do 'em. And wait until I get some cash to do the tires and alignment... since we're not going anywhere else until next Spring. But I sure don't want a steer tire failure in the next 2,000 miles! 

For budgeting, shocks are ~$60 each, tires are about $300-$400 each. How much for alignment, and what type of shop should I look for??

OK, so if I avoid all of this work right now, don't be surprised if you see a frantic post in the next 2-14 days on the Board for a "Busnut needs help" either in IA, MO, OK, TX, NM, or CO. 

Thanks!
Brian B.

[DrivingMissLazy]

Brian, I took my Eagle to a front end shop for alignment and they would not do anything until the other problems were fixed. In fact they told me it was impossible to align properly until a couple of other problems were fixed. I really do not remember what the problems were though.

They gave me a list of what needed done at no charge. Really a waste of money to have the front end aligned until you know it is only mis-alignment.
Richard

[jjrbus]

I'll second Sir Richard on this. Front end alignment last. If tires are so bad that they have to be replaced, better to bite the bullet and have the other work done, befor replaceing tires.
$300/400 each just to ruin does not make any sense. At least it does not make any sense to me.

[tekebird]

what tire preasyre are you running?

GM's have been prone to shoulder wear when inflated to high.

Also what is the designed use of the tire model you have on yours.

MY 04 had tires that were the proper sizze but were designed for local delivery......and showed alot of odd shoulder wear.

New Michilins and 20k later they look like new, inflated to the PSI for the axel weight which is far below the max inflation

[pete81eaglefanasty]

  Have you had the wheels balanced, If so when you go to put the wheel  back on, just put four nuts on, top and bottom, left, right center. see if the wheel turns by itself, free fall, if so remove and turn drum a couple of studs, and try again, until the wheels stay still. it well be a close balance to the drum. you can turn the drum and see if it stops at the same spot if it does it's out of balance.


         Pete & Jean
          Fantasy

[TomC]

Number one- jack up the front wheels off the ground to see if there is any up and down play.  If so, this could be caused by wheel bearings that are loose and/or worn king pins-of which both would have to be tightened and rebuilt before a front end alignment. The second most important measurement is toe in or out.  If both tires are wearing on the outside, it sounds to me that you have too much toe in.  If most of your travelling is on highways-above 40mph-then toe is critical.  You should have somewhere between 1/16"-1/8" of toe in. Anymore and you see what happens.  Third is the camber of the tires (the up and down straightness of the tires).  Usually you run the right tire at O with the left tire 1/2-1 degrees positive for road crown.  Fourth is caster-if you have good steering wheel return and no wheel shimmy, chances are the caster is alright.
Right now, have your front end measured for toe and adjusted-even with the front end possibly worn.  Then flip the tires so the worn spot is in the inside now and finish the trip.  Good Luck, TomC

[Buffalo SpaceShip]

Good advice, all. The alignment shop in Cedar Rapids couldn't get me in today. The tire shop fixed a faulty valve that allowed a slow leak on our first leg, and turned that tire around.

We leave for St. Louis tonight, so I'll see if I can find a shop there for the alignment. I planned a tight trip with airport pick-ups/ drop-offs and b-day parties, not to mention a college football game we made on Saturday. I didn't budget any "bus issue" time in the trip... but I sure don't wanna be on the side of the road!

BTW, I'm running well over the tire chart pressures for my 26,000 pounds... 100psi in front and 90psi in rears. The P.O. ran much lower pressures (80/70, IIRC), but I'm now getting almost 8.5mpg vs. his 7-7.5mpg. I hope the extra PSI isn't contributing to the wear, but the tire shop said (like TomC did), that it's probably toe-in issues. The fronts are Michellins, highway-rated steers (made in mid-1999, I found out today).

I'll keep 'ya posted. Thanks again,
Brian B.

[RJ]

Brian -

If you've got a 10' tape measure on board, you can easily check the toe-in/out yourself, with the help of your boys.  And you don't even have to crawl under the bus!

First, make sure that the wheels are pointed straight ahead.  Put one end of the tape in the outermost groove on the front side of the tire, as high up as you can w/o interfering w/ the chassis.  Take a reading of the distance to the same groove on the opposite tire, and make a note of it.

Now repeat the process on the back side of the tire, and compare your measurements.  If the back is greater than the front, you've got toe-in.  If the front's greater than the back, it's toe-out.

Simple, and the boys will enjoy helping dad, too!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Paso One]

Hey Folks:

We're one-third of the way through a 3,000 mile, multi-leg trip and I'm noticing some VERY uneven wear on the front tires of the bus. The outer edges of the tires are worn.
Thanks!
Brian B.

Hi Brian In a previous life I worked a alignment machine.  I need further clarification on where the tire wear is, for example is the left front tire outer edge worn and the right front tire outside edge worn ? or is both tires worn on the outer edge (same tire both outside edges)

If the outside edges on both sides are wore only on the outside edges then that is positive camber which could be worn Kingpins or camber adjustment.

Worn shocks are more than likly to cause cupping of the tire as oposed to even wear on the out side edge.

Toe in and toe out wear is differant than you are discribing. Usually scuffing is seen and not equal on both tires.

Negative camber causes the inside edges to wear   /   \

Positive camber causes outside edges to wear    \    /

Save the shocks for the at home job.

flip the tires on the rim if tires are cheaper at home.

If it's kingpins I'll send you a hammer :0

[Buffalo SpaceShip]

I like DIY projects, Russ. I'll have to try that trick.

Paul, they're mostly worn only outside edges (those pointing out to the road) of each tire, and the inside edges(those pointing under the bus) have some tread... though not as much as the center of the tire. When the tech had the front driver's tire off today to fix it, it looks very cupped. The cupping wasn't as noticable with the tire on the bus. Also some weather checking, related to its age.

The P.O. spent a bunch of $ on the back end when he had the DD out for the out-of-frame rebuild... bushings, shocks, tires, etc. Admittedly, he didn't do anything to the front... so now it's up to me.

Timeline: I bought the bus, noticing wear on outer edge of pax steer tire. We went 3,000 miles or so on the lower-inflated tires. Then started running the higher psi last trip. And had the slow leak on the 800 miles of this trip (was down to 60psi when I filled them up to 100psi when we stopped... were down to 80psi when we got here). Noticed the excessive wear on the driver's tire after that leg.

I wish I'd have thought to have the other steer tire turned around when I was at the tire shop today. St. Louie is just a few hundred miles (and we leave in an hour), so I'll probably be fine to get at least there. I'll check the wear on the "unturned" tire and see if I can make it all the way to Dallas on it. I'll be in Big D for several days, so that would be more ideal to get some progress made on the issues at hand.

Again, thanks all. You're Da Greatest!
bb

[edroelle]

You mentioned slight cupping.  This may or may not be the same type of problem.

I had an uneven wear problem a couple of years ago, and posted here.  My Goodyear G159 tires were cupped on the outer edges the worst.  Inner was cupped a little.

The suspension was tight, air pressures good, bearings adjusted, alignment 1/16" in.

I looked at alot of busses and found alot of cupped tires.  Goodyear G159s  were some of the worst.  Michelins with the wear grooves (not their right name) on the inside and outside of tires, were the best.  The wear grooves are about 3/16" from the edges of the tire and are designed to prevent this uneven cupping wear.  Few tires have this feature.

I discussed this with the Goodyear reps at an FMCA convention.  Either they were ignorant to this problem or were playing dumb.  (They did do a great job at acting stupid.)

Ed Roelle
Flint, MI

[pete81eaglefanasty]

I remember that last year when i had two new tires installed at goodyear tire center. The service manager mention to me that any tire that is g-1 series tire are made for trailier tires and that g-357 are made for tractors and buses.


         Pete & Jean
           Fantasy

[Skykingrob]

Hi Brian
I assume you will be going down I-44 from St Louis to Dallas. If so, I have used an alignment shop in Joplin MO often. They do trucks, buses and motorhomes. They do all the alignments for Newell Coaches straight out of the factory so they know there stuff. I had taken a Newell to them to be checked. They said it needed repairs before the alignment. Turns out it needed bearings and king pins. They checked the tire condition before doing the alignment and told me I could take the coach somewhere else or they could do it all which is what I had them do. Repairs were $450 plus $110 alignment. I can give details if you need them.

Rob
91 Prevost XL
Missouri

[TomC]

Pete and Jean- that tire manager was partially correct.  Goodyear 1 series is for regional use and 3 series are for highway use.  2 series are construction on/off highway tires.  Good Luck, TomC