My 1960 PD 4104 is stuck in 2nd gear, 4 speed spicer trans...advice anyone?

lpatton · November 02, 2011, 03:51:53 PM

We have managed to get off the road into a friends parking lot but the bus is stuck in second gear, shifter wont move from 2nd position, im thinking /hoping its a linkage problem, something slipped, bolt fell out something like that. Also im not very familier with how to gain access to check the linkage etc, front or rear. My friend said he pulled out shifted from 1st to second and the shifter just froze there, had to drive it a mile or so in 2nd to the parking lot. Dont know if it would matter but the bus has been sitting for a couple of years however we have had her running and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles and it has been shifting ok until now. We need some imput from you guys that know of these things, what to look for and where, suggestions/advice, all appreciated, thanks in advance , Larry and Steve . 1960 gm PD4104, 4 SPEED SPICER TRANS, 671 DETROIT.

luvrbus · November 02, 2011, 04:20:29 PM

Check the reverse solenoid they are bad about sticking and locking you in second if not that you may have to remove the tower to unlock it

good luck

Utahclaimjumper · November 02, 2011, 07:01:17 PM

Open the right rear panel to access the trans and linkage.>>>Dan

buswarrior · November 02, 2011, 08:27:24 PM

Don't let others drive your coach?

Seriously, something will be bound up, and finesse, not force, may be your best friend.

try leaning gently on the shift linkage at the transmission, and see if you can get it to move in any direction.
Have someone else move the shifter around so you can get an idea as to what should be happening at the back while watching. Don't get your fingers chopped off by poor communication with the one upfront.

After it is free, you'll want to think really hard about whether the shift linkage needs some repair/upgrade, as sloppy/worn out linkages are famous for binding up between gears.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

zubzub · November 03, 2011, 02:05:45 AM

need to be gentle with an old bus. Open up the rear hatches and have a look see. Make sure you chock the wheels and have one person up front gently moving the shifter, another in the engine bay, gently working out what is stuck. Hopefully something simple....
Not too gentle, a little reefing may be required, oh and grease, everywhere you see zerk.

baker4106 · November 03, 2011, 03:30:10 PM

My 4106 has a stud installed on top of the transmission with a shifting fork kept on the stud with a castlelated nut. When the nut loosened or stripped the threads it allowed the shifting fork to come off the shifting lever in the transmission leaving it stuck in gear. By loosing the nut, I reinstalled the shifting fork on the shifting lever,retightened the nut and shifted it out of gear. I then replaced the nut with a new one and it has worked good for 3 years.

FloridaCliff · November 03, 2011, 04:31:10 PM

L&S,

I had the same issue baker4106 had om my 4905.

You may have to take it off the stud to get it free or just loosen it up.

Once free you can see how it can get stuck and how it should be just free enough to move, but not too loose.

Mine was moving around like a ball joint, but once fixed shifted smooth.

I have also learned to square the shift pattern with the Spicer, not meander over like in a syncro transmission.

Best of luck...

Cliff

lpatton · November 04, 2011, 07:06:22 AM

Thanks everyone for the info, suggestions. I do think we will find linkage binding , problems but havent had a chance to begin looking yet, rainy weather, also im 250 miles from the bus but Steve lives closeby and he likely will be looking today. I bought the bus about a month ago now and met 5B Steve thru busnuts, he happened to live just miles from the bus and has helped me with everything from the beginning, we have replaced baggage door hinges, fuel filter mounts and filters, cleaned and rerouted fuel lines, checked fuel pump and a lot more, . I feel i should make him co owner of this bus, all his effort and help, still ongoing, now this shifting problem. Steve has a beautiful mci5B BUS in his driveway, he knows buses and im not concerned about him driving it anywhere he wants to. No, i wouldnt let just anyone drive my bus, i know what your saying. Hopefully we will work thru these problems and then soon drive the bus down to my place..... iNDIANALPOLIS TO LONDON KY. The old girl dont look to bad, runs strong, needs a lot of tlc, a good wash job would help a lot, it is converted but old and unkept inside, lots to do. The bus is still mostly all original, still has the complete a/c system all there but likely not working, onan generator [gas] does work.....anyways ill keep you posted, thanks again ..Larry

Handyjim · November 04, 2011, 07:38:56 AM

Make Steve a silent partner -- you supply the bus, Steve the fuel. Just a thought.

lpatton · November 04, 2011, 10:02:24 AM

Hmmm dont know if that silent partner thing would work, when it comes to buses i cant get a word in sideways ...!!! just kidding. Now how do you suppose one could pick a busnut out from a crowd............ always will have black under the fingernails, the complextion will be a few shades darker than others [diesel exhaust], his wardrobe onboard consist of an assortment of coveralls, will have that ora about him, a bit edgey like whats gonna break next, personal vehicle front half has soot and a black greasy film always.......surely theres more.....anybody.....?

gus · November 04, 2011, 08:22:11 PM

My 4104 does this when I forget to completely push the clutch all the way in or get sloppy with my shifts.

The solution is to go the rear where the two vertical levers attach to the two rods going into the trans. You will note that they are not lined up together. One will be appx straight up and is in neutral. The other one is hung up.

Have someone hold in the clutch all the way in while you pull the other lever upright and even with the other. This takes a little effort but if an old guy like me can do it anyone can!!

I've probably done this 20 times in 72,000 mi but it solves the problem.

This is all assuming nothing is broken or loose. These levers could be loose on the rods and your linkage is probably badly worn, most are.

uncle ned · November 05, 2011, 08:23:33 AM

A second to gus's remedy. Had to use it several times on my other coach.

My son found out the expensive way on his first trip out. Instead of calling me he called a wrecker had towed to a truck garage in Alabama. Picked up one week later and 400 hundred dollars later.

uncle ned

lpatton · November 05, 2011, 09:02:20 AM

Yes thanks guys, that linkage back at the trans [forks] is what were looking at now, hope we can move them a little to get it unstuck, maybe loosen the casleated nut and see if we can unstick then tighten back down and safty, but i think , i hope thats where its at. Im in KY but Steve is there at the bus, were talking on the phone working thru this. Unfortunately i had to call wrecker on this bus, a few weeks ago, bus died on a 2 lane, busy highway, just had gotten dark, there i sat, maybe panicked a little but called 911 to get someone out there to prevent a wreck, big wrecker showed up later, towed a few miles to a truckstop, 250 bucks, had to pull the rear axle and all. Dont want to go thru that again, a tough spot to be in. Thanks again, we will keep you updated.....Larry

lpatton · November 05, 2011, 10:26:41 AM

Hey you guys were spot on, Steve just tapped one of the rods back at the trans with a rubber mallet and it is free now. He has started the bus and is going to move over to a carwash across the street and spray the engine down some. The bus is at a lube service place so were going to put the bus over the pit so inspect the underneath and grease everything that we can. Steve will take the bus home with him then, just a few miles , so there we will see what else needs done, get some lights working on the rear, brake lts, signals etc. Appreciate the good info, im sure we will have more questions soon. Larry and Steve.

gus · November 07, 2011, 06:34:30 PM

Please note that the bellcrank zerk fitting is on the end of a long tube that extends to the bottom of the engine comp. However, the tube almost always clogs with hardened grease and won't allow grease to the bellcrank. Result is no grease and a worn out bellcrank which has very hard to find arms.

Solution, remove the rear engine cover and heat plates and grease the bellcrank by hand.

You don't want to ever let these arm bushings dry out because it is a major job to replace them if you can find usable ones. However, you can replace the bushings if the arms are not damaged. I replaced a couple of arm bushings and secured them in place with epoxy when other options failed.