Front end safety

[PADoug]

Rather than highjack the other thread on tailgating, I just decided to ask a question here. Does anyone know where I can find accident stats on school or conventional front end buses?

I know most of you look down on schoolies. I have seen much flak, understandable considering the "Hippie" buses out there which I find, to put it mildly..retarded. But my needs would be better suited by smaller or more more maneuverable OTR or commuter buses.

The front end crash pictures got me thinking. "WHAT safety?? For WHO?" Not me the driver, who would be the primary occupant (no family, maybe one passanger). In those pictures, I doubt that I would wind up any differently than a driver in a cheap SS.

In another month, I should have my debts paid off (unlike the idiot banks/CC companies who took me at 25% interest..and then begged...nevermind another thread OT), and can seriously consider looking for a bus. I have considered rear engine schoolies. The folks on here who have them have done an admirable job. But I want safety AND maneuverability/ease of parking. Storage is not as important to me for something I would be spending no more than a week while on site.

So, do front engined schoolies/commuters provide a level of safety I'm looking for; and does anyone have any pictures showing decent looking (from the outside at least) conversions acceptable to RV parks as well as general usage.

This has got me thinking maybe I should just go with a cheap-throw away trailer that I can replace for about the same maintenance costs of a bus. My car, at least has a shell that can protect me in a rollover and reasonable protection in a front-end crash, whether I am the cause or not.

Doug

Note: Edited a grammatical error in the last sentence, not the content.

[JackConrad]

Doug,
    Pretty much any rear engine bus will put you right on the left front corner, in front on the front axle. This is not the "safe" place to be in an accident. A front engine bus will give you a larger "frontal crush zone" before getting to you. Trade-offs with a front engine bus are more heat/noise in the front and less available space inside for the conversion.  All bus lengths are measured bumper to bumper, so a front engine bus length includes the hood and engine compartment. School buses are definitely more "off-road friendly" but usually are geared for a slower top speed=less mileage. 
    Only you can decide which factors have a higher priority in you situation.  I am just trying to point out some of the facts to, hopefully, help you make a better educated decision.  Jack

[Tenor]

Doug,
You mentioned "rear engine schoolies" and I think that would be the best of both worlds.  Crown made some really sharp looking versions and I hope that crowd will chime in.  Another might be an old flexible (1940's -50's) since they had rear engine, spring suspension and high clearance over the ground.  Obviously the big drawback there is availability.  Good Luck!

Glenn

[Airbag]

I am a licensed school bus driver and have much experience in all types so let me give you my take. First my own bus is a MCI 5A old and tired but we like it, with that said there have been many times I wish I was in a school bus because of terrain. You can take a school bus places you would never dare take a intercity bus because of ground clearance and general toughness. School buses are designed to travel on the most awful roads to pickup children in fact Bluebird offers a rough road version of it's buses, beefed up here and there. Now you must decide what your needs are if you will be mostly on the highway or in the back woods.

Their are many makes of school buses the two most common are Bluebird and International with variants there of.

My choice would be the front engine Bluebird (All American) with the blunt nose. Four reasons, 1.most reliable best built 2.rear door for safety and side doors and many window exits, 4. no airbags making them the toughest of the bunch and will go where a rear engine will not.
Draw backs are a little smaller cabin than the rear engine Bluebird and the Internationals. Loud! did I mention they are loud? If you find one with baggage bays they are heavier and will have airbags in the rear.

Oh we had a front engine blunt nose Bluebird in a head on collision with a pickup 55 mph and looking at the bus you would think it was in a much less severe acident. Driver has some back problems but is OK other than that.

The Internationals are just OK they are cheaply built and their price reflects that.
I hope I have been some help.

Rick

[Iceni John]

Doug,
I recently bought a Crown Supercoach II  -  see my thread of the same name dated 1.19.2009.   This type of vehicle may be what you are looking for:  it's simple (compared to most OTR buses), tough, built like a tank, has decent ground clearance, uses standard readily-available parts, has the same drivetrain as lots of MCIs and transit buses, and will lend itself very well to being converted inexpensively yet adequately for potential full-timing.   I am still gobsmacked at the shear amount of space underneath that I can use for tanks/batteries/propane/etc., without using any of my bellybins for any of that stuff.   And best of all, it was cheap!   Once it's converted it won't look like your typical "damned hippy bus", and after I roll on 3 gallons of Rustoleum it should look presentable.
Do I want some mobile gin-palace or a high-tech rolling monument to excess?   Heck no!   Underneath it all my bus will always be a Crown school bus, capable of safely and reliably taking me wherever I want, whether that will be down into Baja or across the Mojave or up into the Providence Mountains or anywhere else.
Just some food for thought . . .
John

[Airbag]

John I do like Crown you lucky dog   Here is a link to a very nice conversion of a hippie type bus but sure looks nice inside and out. I think it is a rear engine Bird with the Cat engine. He did it on a shoe string and shows how he did it.

http://www.vonslatt.com/

[Lin]

I would have to say that simple logic points to a front engine schoolie or truck conversion being safer for the driver.  The same faculty would also confirm that you give up a lot of interior space.  But if it has enough space for your needs, so what?  Another consideration may be resale.  We all know that you will not get the full value of your conversion when you go to sell it.  However, you will get far less for any schoolie conversion, and you can reduce that substantially for a front engine shell.  You may therefore want to look for one that is already done.  My last bus was a 1967 35', rear engine Superior.  We now have a 1965 MC5a.  The Superior was well built, sturdy, less complex, and certainly a better choice for leaving the pavement.  The MC5a is better riding, has more power, is better geared for our use, has more storage, and can accept more justifiable expenditures.  I presently like the MCI better, but could go the other way on some days.

Another thing to consider would be if you intend to use private campgrounds.  I'm sure there are some that would refuse to accept what they would see as hippy buses.

[PADoug]

Posted on: February 11, 2009, 01:07:11 PM Posted by: Airbag
>>Oh we had a front engine blunt nose Bluebird in a head on collision with a pickup 55 mph and looking at the bus you would think it was in a much less severe accident. Driver has some back problems but is OK other than that. << Rick

Okay Rick, That sounds interesting. Can you perhaps find me a picture of that? I'll admit, some of the blunt nose Bluebird conversions and Wanderlodges that I've seen looked pretty decent. Almost considered one at a bus dealer in DC a few years ago. They CAN be made to look better than the old Dodge D-18 and D-25 series SS's from a few years ago. Nothing like an RV on steroids...even if it can't go very fast, it would be nice to put an SS to shame in a campground or parking area. 

As I recall, not much head room, but usuable with minimal insulation. Not a whole lot of space to heat or cool anyway, so those costs may be either relatively inexpensive, or a higher trade off. Living in PA, I value fresh and heated air at the same time. So I'm sure a happy medium can be found. Maybe Nick and George and the other HVAC guys can factor those ideas in their next comments on those subjects.

Noise? Try driving a old cabover diesel U-Haul 17 foot truck a few hundred miles. Done that many a times when I worked for them. The noise wasn't so bad. It was the heat that could kill you on a warm rainy day and no AC or ability to open the windows. Uh oh....

Anyway, Thank you!