Our MC5a was a professional conversion of who knows who and when. One appraisal I have says it was done by Liberty Coach, but I do not know if that is accurate. The walls are done with a wood grain laminate and real wood trim. Somewhere along the line, a PO wallpapered over the laminate in the bathroom and part of the kitchen. My wife did not like the wallpaper and it was kind of worn. She said she would take care of peeling it off (right!). We just finished it today. We used wallpaper removers, scrapers, and a lot of scrubbing with steel wool pads to get the paste off, which was as thick as the paper itself. I am thoroughly impressed with the laminate since it took all that abuse and came out looking fine. I am talking about some serious gouging, scraping and scrubbing here. If you are considering what to use for your interior, laminates qualify to be in the running. The only cautions I have to point out is that the laminate is cracked in a couple of areas. One is over an electric wall heater in the bathroom. The other is the wall right next to the left stove burners. My guess is that the stuff, being plastic, needs to be protected from heat.
Lin
We use Laminate all the time in our cabinet shop, It is great stuff but not in-destructable, Yes it is heat sensitive, it will burn & blister and heat will make it delaminate from your submaterial, If you need to peal a piece off use a heat gun and start to peal it back, You can also use heat to form it into tight radius, the make a strip that you apply before heating and it will turn color when it is hot enough to bend and not blister. I used laminate on my walls and it's easy to keep clean and is very durable. Jason
75% if not more of my interior is all wood grain laminate and we used the radius corner method where we could which has really helped from the corners being taken off while passing by which always seems to appear in those with square corners. Yes it's durable and easy to clean and not really that hard to install and I would recommend using it to anyone!
Ace
Ditto on the laminate. We have made extensive use it in in our bus "re-conversion". This may sound idiotic to many, but we pulled out all of the Corian that Marathon had installed in our Prevost. Shower, sinks, galley tops, sills, dining table ... the whole package. The bus is much appreciative of the weight reduction. Had the old interior design been what we wanted and needed, of course we would have lived with the Corian. After we finished with the last Formica job, I am glad we decided against redoing everything in Corian or similar material.
The Formica kitchen counter top in our house is 35 years old and looks nearly as good as the day it was installed.
I realize Corian, and real granite hold top billing for durability and possibly "class appeal", but the interior of our bus suits us and that is all that matters.
Merlin
I have no problem at all with laminates - in fact I'll be using laminates extensively in my bus bathroom - but please don't use 'wood effect' or 'wood grain laminate'. Horrible, horrible stuff. If you want the appearance of wood, use wood. Plastic imitation wood just screams 'bad taste' to anyone who sees it.
Well, almost anyone.
Jeremy
Jeremy I just need to know. How does using wood grain laminate justify BAD TASTE? I have never heard that before.
Ace
I always took mine with a little salt..... ;D ;D
Quote from: Blacksheep on October 20, 2008, 03:33:54 AM
Jeremy I just need to know. How does using wood grain laminate justify BAD TASTE? I have never heard that before.
Ace
Because it's a poor imitation that implies you either cannot tell the difference or cannot afford the real thing but are trying to pretend that you can.
Just an opinion of course!
I have very similar opinions about imitation leather, imitation stone/marble/granite etc. It just has no class, and no place in a quality bus conversion or anywhere else. As I said before, I have no problem with laminates (or vinyl flooring for example) per se, it's just that I would always choose a colour / pattern that stood for itself rather than one that was pretending to be a more expensive material.
Jeremy
So I take it your driving a top of the line mega million dollar prevost since almost every conversion done at home uses imitation items thru out? Matter of fact I have seen many million dollar coaches with everything you say is low class but to many they are not!
I would put my imitation low dollarn laminate against any home conversion or even some high dollar factory conversions anyday! What kind of conversion do you have again? Any pictures you'd like to share showing the REAL stuff that is so much better?
Ace
GO ACE. I agree 100%.
Ok, there are some photos which show the kind of standard I am hoping to acheive; it will be a long time before I can post photos of the finished article I'm afraid, but I have done a lot of wood interiors before so I have an idea of what is involved. I cannot say how these interiors compare to that of Prevosts' etc since I have never seen a Prevost except in photos, and wood effect laminates can look fine in photos. My own background is in boatbuilding rather than buses, so that is where I am basing my ideas for my bus (all the photos below are Sunseeker interiors BTW).
Again, I am at a disadvantage when refering to typical 'home conversions' as I have very little experience of those here as well - if as you say they usually use 'imitation items thru out' then obviously I am looking to acheive a higher standard than that.
Something we can probably all relate to is the interior of different makes of cars - cheaper brands will often use imitation plastic 'wood' trim on the dashboard etc, whereas the better marques (Jags, Mercs etc) will invariably use real wood. That is exactly the distinction I am seeking to make, but I realise that owners of those lesser brands (for example) may not understand the arguement or even want to be offended by it.
Anyway, here are some typical photos of interiors that definiately do not include any 'woodgrain' laminates!
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dragonflyadventurecruises.com%2Fimages%2FVESSEL-Galley.jpg&hash=47a0ffcc36d1430a2ef52e13c26a0efb8c096289)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elmarine.com%2Fimages%2Fsunseeker-74-vip.jpeg&hash=fa51195931f657fa1ab098f5acef55f456df1581)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elmarine.com%2Fimages%2Fsunseeker-105-yacht-twin.jpg&hash=aa771c72c652cc65ba3254d2a85aaa330c16df2b)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elmarine.com%2Fimages%2Fsunseeker-74-galley.jpeg&hash=daeff16cf38ba7ab7b0562d07c4cb8b84a5a7e4f)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elmarine.com%2Fimages%2Fsunseeker-predator-68-yacht-3.jpg&hash=4919e4360885a85b6ca1a57e3dd697832afec73f)
Jeremy
Jeremy; here in USA the high end converters use laminates to cover the MDF board they use, but all the Prevost converters offer different materails for finish starting with laminates being the less expensive,they offer acrylics, wood veneer, metal (looks like a diner kitchen)and solid wood being the most expensive of all.I have allways had a problems with factory installed laminates in every coach I have owned, wood is the best to go with in my opinion have a great day
Has anyone noticed how completely I've stayed out of this topic? lol ;D ;D ;D :D
Quote from: Jeremy on October 20, 2008, 06:57:07 AM
... Anyway, here are some typical photos of interiors that definiately do not include any 'woodgrain' laminates!
Jeremy
Jeremy,
I have to admit that those interior shots look almost as good as my home-built conversion. ;) Dang ... that "shine" on the cabinetry is blinding. Don't think I can compete with that. My cabinets are solid cherry with a hand-rubbed look. The "professional" interior that we ripped out was done by Marathon. Lots of wood-grained Formica (on flakeboard) and Corian. Oh ... don't forget the ton of mirrors that we tossed out.
Now we have cherry wood cabinets and imitation limestone Formica (on Baltic birch backing) counter tops. The color combination of mellow reddish brown cherry and muted gray Formica is relaxing to the eye, just as we want it. After all, this will be our home soon. We never lived in a fancy house, so our retirement will be in a "not too fancy" bus conversion.
We love to see the handywork of other converters, and will lavish compliments on those who labored with heart and soul to make the palace on wheels "their way". We are looking forward to seeing other busnut conversions at rallies.
Merlin
On this topic I couldn't agree with Jeremy more. I will (and have) purchased older over newer because the older was quality (real wood, etc) while the newer was laminate and wannabe materials. I don't say this to offend anyone. We all see things differently and that's what makes us individuals. Just my $.02 worth, Will
The beauty of bus converting is that owners get to do what they want to match their tastes and budgets. For me personally, I think woodgrain laminates span a pretty wide range in quality and appearance. Some of it looks downright cheesy, with the fake butcher block stuff coming to mind (sorry if I offended anyone). But I also think there are some very attractive products out there, too.
I see woodgrained laminates used in furniture top surfaces all the time including corporate board rooms and $300+/night hotel rooms. I never thought of it as insulting me for not being able to tell the difference.
A large percentage of the Corian counter surfaces have patterns intended to mimick marble, granite, or other rock materials. I do not find this offensive, either.
To anyone choosing to use a woodgrain laminate in their conversion, I'd simply recommend they choose a good looking product. The result may not end up looking like a mega-buck yacht, but it will hardly qualify them for a Bad Taste Award.
[In case anyone thinks I am just defending what I currently have, my bus has solid wood cabinets, and the dash on my car is real wood.]
I've seen real wood that the grain looked cheesy & fake.
I've seen some fake wood that was almost impossible to tell it wasn't sawn out of a tree.
I guess it depends on personal taste & the quality of the product.
Maybe the Britt's don't have a good source for quality faux wood like materials. ;D ::) :o :(
Bluebirds I have seen use laminates, even wood grain ones. Some wood grain laminates are pretty close too. But what I was pointing out was how strong and durable they were. I can see that some would think that using a wood grain laminate has a wannabe appearance, but that smacks of snobbery or some fear of being judged by ones neighbors. I once lived in New Orleans. A lot of things there were made of cypress since they used to break up barges for wood. Sending them up-river was not an option back then. There was a regular art form developed of painting cypress to look like oak or other woods.
Personally, I do like real wood over laminates for the concepts of purity and naturalism, but laminates are more easily maintained. I know some people just love granite counter tops. They can be beautiful, but my thought is always, "Hey man, it's a kitchen. That's the work area where you make food." I knew a guy that was extremely wealthy who had granite counters in the bathroom that they had painted to look like marble. Go figure!
I can't stand it anymore, I have to jump in lol. The key to a quality laminate job, just like any other job is preparation, if the substrate is properly done and of quality material and the craftsman uses the proper diligence in his fit along with a quality brand of laminate you'll get a job that you can be proud of that will hold up over time. Note, I defended the use of laminate lol, imagine that a sawdust person defending the use of laminate lol. I also used several terms that sometimes get forgotten, like anything else laminate comes in a series of grades, the substrata also can be found in a series of grades, and quality lamninate over a cheap substrata will never look as good as it could but when all things are done properly it makes a finished product that will hold it's value over time. Aces bus is an excellent example of everything done right, his bus has a lot of laminate, one thing that sets his bus aside is the use of quality material and carefull craftsmanship. I'm a person that worked mainly in hardwoods and a few exotics, I enjoy piling up sawdust and seem to do alright but my main concern is the fit and finish when I look over a conversion, it goes with the territory. I've used laminate in a few areas in my bus and it works well. What I've found over the years I've dealt with wood and people, is that a poorly done job will seem to jade a persons idea for a lifetime, doesn't matter if it's rosewood or laminate, a poorly done job is exactly that. I've got friends that work for Marathon and a couple that work for Liberty, I've been approached by both companies to pile sawdust for them, I really don't want or need the work, but it has pleased me to feel that they think my work is good enough for them to concider me so I base my opinions on the idea that some people have improperly placed a certain amount of credance on what I think of wood. Like I said, my preferance is solid wood but I can't fault a properly done laminate either.
Quote from: cody on October 20, 2008, 10:43:28 AM
I can't stand it anymore, I have to jump in lol.
Like I said, my preferance is solid wood but I can't fault a properly done laminate either.
I knew it'd get the better of him sooner or later! LOL! ;D BK ;D