How many hours labor is it to run the rack on an 8v71? About what should the cost be?
Lin; figure 3 to 5 hrs depending on what has to be removed to reach both sides the price will depend on the rate of the shop
have a great day
Make sure the hands-on mechanic actually knows what he is doing. 4 years ago when I first got my bus and didn't know much about Detroits, I took it to a DD dealer where they changed 2 injectors and ran the rack. A young tech. did it with an older guy coaching him from a distance. They still charged me the shop rate of over $100/hr. It ran good enough I thought, although I've had increasing trouble with it since. Lately it wasn't running good at all, so I got into it myself and found one injector that was only going to half fuel and another one where the control finger on the tube was loose and not moving the injector rack at all. So I "ran the rack" myself, following the instructions in the DD service manual and got an immense improvement. It runs better than ever, smooth, snappy with lots of power, (for a 4-71). Running the rack is actually not that hard. It takes some patience, a sensitive touch and a love of your bus! Study the book first so you understand what goes on in the governor, the fuel control tube and the injector racks. The object is to have the control tube moving all the racks to full fuel equally without binding. It is not as hard as it sounds, even for a half a mechanic like myself. Then there is the saticfaction of accomplishing this yourself, as opposed to giving a shop $500.
JC
Lin, if you have Jake's it would be best to let a DD guy run the rack it's not easy to do with Jake's in place.How far do you live from Needles CA one of the best 2 stroke wrench's around has a shop there has several sets of complete Jake's also if you need a set. good luck
My engine has jakes and I didn't find they were in the way. The only reason to remove them would be to replace an injector. And even that doesn't look too bad.
Lin, are you into doing it yourself, or having it done? Make sure you get a good, experienced mechanic that will care to do a good job if you are going to spend the money.
JC
Lostagain you doing a 4-71 and he has 8v71 stuffed in a MCI 5 a little different
Clifford,
Where in Needles is this DD genie? I lived there for six months until I figured out how hot it can get! ;D
Paul
Paul, he is on the AZ side of the river but his phone number is a Needles number only engine Andy will work on and he's sharp on the 2 strokes, there is another guy in Bullhead by the name of Marty retired from WW Williams that is also good he and comes helps me sometimes
I had a steering column installed by a local mechanic. I'm pretty happy with the way that's come out, and he did a couple of other small stuff. I asked him about running the rack. He really didn't seem that he wanted to do it. He is a big, wide guy, and I don't think he likes the idea of squeezing into the back, so he said it would take 10-12 hours. It do not think that it is critical but believe I will get some improvement from things being set right. I will look at the book and see if it is something I wish to try, but probably would like to know it is done right instead.
Needles is about 160 miles from me, so it is something worth considering. Maybe, after it cools down a little, we could see about a trip that way. Please give me the info on the mechanic there. What are his rates like? I do not have a Jake, but I am not sure I need one now since I have a Spicer and can just go down hills slowly.
Lin, it is A&A Diesel Service 928-768-4311 (ANDY)I see he has a AZ number now.If you come this way I have 50amp service and you are welcome to spend the night and and I would even throw something on the BBQ or you could take in the casinos and food forgot he was charging $65.00 per hr good luck
Lin,
Don Fairchild in Bakersfield is a DD whiz and he loves them. I know it may be farther than Needles but doesn't hurt to have more options.
Thanks,
Either trip is worth considering when I decide to finally get it done. I've got a collection of things I want to do with it at home first. I guess it will be Oct/Nov when we get to it. I've copied the info.
I watched racks being set up on 353 and 453 Detroits, but that was long ago and I have totally forgotten how. 35 years past.
Could we learn such a fun, new skill today? If I had a 2-stroke Detroit, (which I don't) would I learn how? Dunno.
Us old coots used to set the valves on our 283's with solids. Why not learn how to set Detroit racks, have fun and goof off? :) :) :)
I agree that it would be fun to learn. It's sort of like studying calculus. Even if you don't use it and forget it pretty soon, you can add it to your list of life accomplishments. You could even spice conversations with it like, "I remember the time I ran the rack on my 8v71." However, by learning how to do it, I do not mean I want to start blindly pulling things apart in my driveway without a clue about where I'm going. Ideally, I guess I would like to do it the first time as a helper. If I am to experiment, it would probably be better on someone else bus.
As I said above, it is not witchcraft. Anybody with a minimum of mechanical aptitude and the willingness to learn can do it. I like those old 2 stroke DDs, and as with everything I own, I have to become familiar with them, so I can keep them tuned up and running right anytime as needed. You first read the manual, then you do it one first time, then the second time you do it that much better, by the third time, you're really good at it. As the old generation 2 stroke DD mechanics are getting rare, we have better learn to do it ourselves. And yes, there always will be nay sayers who say it can't be done by anybody but a seasoned old tech. with 40 years experience. As for myself, I can learn anything if I put my heart into it. We should get some of these old mechanics to give us a seminar on how to tune up a 2 stoke. Now there is an idea for a bus rally...
JC
if i put jakes on my 871ta will ineed to run the rack or can i just install them?
Mc; you will need to run your rack and adjust your governor setting for the switch you need the Jake gauge it works better than a regular feeler gauge.You guys are wrong about the old guys being the only one to work on 2 stroke the military has hundreds of these young men and women working on the engine and fwiw they are taught run the rack in the night time and with a dial indicator when a gauge is not available try that guys
Go to the Jacobs engine brakes web site. They have an instalation manual in pdf. You just install them, then adjust them so they open the valves the right amount for your engine.
JC
Mc; go by the manual for sure there is more to it than just installing the brakes you have the buffer switch to deal with , the fuel lines and the oil tubes have a great day
QuoteAs for myself, I can learn anything if I put my heart into it.
I hear ya! .....Spoken like a true bus nut!
QuoteWe should get some of these old mechanics to give us a seminar on how to tune up a 2 stoke. Now there is an idea for a bus rally...
I would be tickled to just see it done on Youtube. Anyone up for it the next time you have your rack run?
How much time is normally used to run a rack on an 8v71?
Having a seminar at a rally sounds like a super duper idea. 8)
I'm thinking about that for TBR next year...I know scary thought huh? ;)
Paul
I'm sure we could find a experienced mechanic that would like to share his knowledge.
A talk and demo on the complete tune up would be best, starting with setting the governor, to running the rack, to adjusting the valves, timing the injectors, setting the gap on the Jakes and setting the iddle and max no load speeds. A good presenter could do it in a couple of hours. Or 2 hrs in the morning and 2 hrs in the afternoon. These are just preliminary ideas. Of course finding the mechanic/lecturer would be the start. I'm hosting the spring BC Bus Nuts rally in the spring, so I'll ask if there would be any interest, and look for someone to do it. I know some mechanics I could ask, who know others maybe...
JC
Hey JC where is the BC bus nuts rally next spring. I might be able to help you out.
Gerry
You guys have a rally close to a Stewart & Stevenson location I may can help with a tech with a little notice I'll send you one if you don't mind having one that just starting shaving have a great evening
It will be in Invermere, BC on the May long week-end. I am currently working on confirming the location and time and details. Invermere is in South Eastern BC, half way between Cranbrook and Golden, directly North of the Idaho Panhandle. We just had our fall rally in Spokane, Wa. a couple weeks ago. There were 23 coaches and a great time was had by all.
JC
Quote from: makemineatwostroke on September 21, 2008, 08:40:25 PM
You guys have a rally close to a Stewart & Stevenson location I may can help with a tech with a little notice I'll send you one if you don't mind having one that just starting shaving have a great evening
Are you talking to me in Texas?
Are you sure the little shaver know what he's doing? ;D
Just as long as he know these ole two strokers.
Maybe I can talk Clifford and Sonnie to do one....Are you hearing me guys?
Paul
Paul
JC keep me in mind, I have done it all except for the jakes, thats what I did for most of my 33 years on the buses. Most were 6V71's. some 8's.
Gerry
"It will be in Invermere, BC on the May long week-end. I am currently working on confirming the location and time and details. Invermere is in South Eastern BC, half way between Cranbrook and Golden, directly North of the Idaho Panhandle. We just had our fall rally in Spokane, Wa. a couple weeks ago. There were 23 coaches and a great time was had by all."
Sure wish I would have know about the rally, it was about 10 miles from me. Saw a bit in the newspaper about it.
Maybe next time. Be sure to let us know about the spring rally.
Thanks
Don 4107
This is also a good idea for a series in the magazine, hint, hint, then all can see if we can't be at the rally.
Ray D
Dreamscape S&S is not just in Texas the CO is in 6 countries and 11 states not all have engine shops but Houston or Dallas would work best for me and believe me some of the young guns from the military are a whiz on these engines have a good evening
I have to comment on the post that mentions the military folks working on Detroit's. My youngest son is a SSGT in the army and is leaving for His third tour in the sand box! When He saw My bus one look at the engine and He lit up. I found very interesting His take on the two stroke engines. The large hemet wreckers have the 8v92 which makes 475 BHP. Considering the enviorment they are operating in I would have thought that He would have a very negative opinion of them! His opinion is that they outlast the other engines by a large margin and are never any problem. How would any of us like to change a injector in a sand storm out on a road while being shot at! I do not truly believe that many Americans have a clue what real misery is! Try one of these young troops, You/We may find that there is a whole new generation of two stroke fans out there. John
Take the mystery out of your misery...
Get the engine manual, step by step and pictures.
No voodoo involved, set it to spec and job is done.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Interesting...
I have around $1000/USD in the tools I use to run the rack. Normally it takes a couple of hours, sometimes it takes until the cows come home..
Technically there is no mystery in running the rack, but... there is an art to it.
Use BW's method and you can be happy, but I doubt that it will be right
Good Luck
Quote from: buswarrior on September 22, 2008, 10:09:22 AM
Take the mystery out of your misery...
Get the engine manual, step by step and pictures.
No voodoo involved, set it to spec and job is done.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
oops....
and spend a lot of money on tools you won't use again...
my mistake.
choose your own cost/benefit point!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Dallas; I gave up on trying to tell these guys about the special tools required to work on a 2 stroke it is not an easy engine to work on some get away with running the rack and injector timing but most don't and v engine is worst get off adjustment on one side there goes the engine and it does require experience and the right touch but as they say live and learn fwiw I paid over 300 bucks for my Snap-On timing gage over 20 years ago if you could buy now it would probably be 1000 bucks
Sorry if we're hijacking. I leaned tough, er touch typing 43 years ago and still remember today. Same with feed, er, speed reading. Stuff like that stays with you kinda. Like valve settings on my '57. Hugh?
Would learning how to run your Detroit Diesel rack be something that could be taugh at a Bus Conversion Convention or rally? Who would teach it? I'd pay to learn something sossss cool. Bring your tools.
Then like already said...you could claim bragging rights for stating that this weekend you are going to tune up your mighty old Detroit and really mean it. Sounds good to me, but then I'm crazy. :) :) :)
HB, did you set it on .008 and .013 I still remember that setting for my 270 hp Chevy in 1957 with the 097 cam and today can't remember to comb my hair good luck
When you get all done make absolutely sure that the throttle closes all the way. and when you are ready to start get a hold of the emergency stop. If you have ever had one of these babys run away for you it ranks right up with the scarest things that will ever happen to you.
Roger 4106
I had an Isky "20 "20, ??? That comes to mind but what the.....? .010 In. and .015 Ex.. Bakersfield. 50 wt. in the summer. Liked to hear 'em. How is it possible we remember such stuff? Dunno. Strange, very strange.
Is it just possible that we are getting old? No way!!! Back on topic, (kinda) I would love to put a aluminimumiumm block 353N into my '78 Chevy Stepside Half. Then I would have to learn to run my rack....WITH the Jake ...He he he, :) :) :)
It's all about the bounce man! all about the bounce.
Gerry
hb
you can help me put the detroit in my van. just waiting on dallas to find it for me
He sent me a picture just no engine
ned