Has any one used plastic SeaTech Fittings? www.seatechinc.com
These fittings work the same as Sharkbite fittings.
We will use all ½ ID 5/8 OD PEX tubing. The pump size is 1/2 " and I see no reason to use larger tubing.
Paul
Quote from: Paul on August 27, 2008, 11:57:23 PM
Has any one used plastic SeaTech Fittings? www.seatechinc.com
These fittings work the same as Sharkbite fittings.
We will use all ½ ID 5/8 OD PEX tubing. The pump size is 1/2 " and I see no reason to use larger tubing.Paul
Paul,
This may be the brand I am using. I refer to all this type fittings as "SharkBite", kinda like refering to all refrigerators as "Frigidaires" We purchased our at a local Lowe's. When the water dries up from the rain, I will see if I have any still in the packaging. Jack
I may be completely wrong here, but these are what I know as "Sharkbite" fittings:
http://www.cashacme.com/prod_sharkbite.php
These are the Seatech fittings sold at most major home centers:
http://www.seatechinc.com/products/default.asp?parCat=58&parCat2=38
They look a lot different to me. But maybe that's just me.
And Yes, I did drive by a Holiday Inn Express once and even thought about stopping there, but liked sleeping in my own bed in the bus a lot better!
Dallas
I used these fittings for my misters and will use them for my next conversion. Most all air fittings on trucks now use a similar fitting for brake lines. It's nice since you can also take them apart quickly too. Good Luck, TomC
We are useing the same type of fittings on our robot end effector. They have held up great, even with all of the quick movement, no leaks. The best part is you can change out a line pretty fast, sure beats the old way using ferrules and wrenches. ;D
Don't ya just love progress!
Hey Dallas, I do stay at a Holiday Inn when traveling, and I even get free cookies and milk!
Paul
I used some of these in a pinch when I didn't realize Home Depot carried the Sharkbite fittings.
They don't seem to bite as tight as the Sharkbite fittings. I was also concerned that vibration might cause them to come loose. Sharkbite fittings aren't that much more expensive than the Seatech fittings.
Quote from: belfert on September 03, 2008, 12:33:55 PM
I used some of these in a pinch when I didn't realize Home Depot carried the Sharkbite fittings.
They don't seem to bite as tight as the Sharkbite fittings. I was also concerned that vibration might cause them to come loose. Sharkbite fittings aren't that much more expensive than the Seatech fittings.
I am reactivating this thread to explore this one question. Are sharkbite type PEX fitting suitable for a vibration environment, such as a bus.
Or should I go the route of buying the crimper tool and such?
Seb
Buy the crimper and rings
Even in a residential setting I was warned to never use Sharkbite fittings anywhere they cannot be accessed since they can spontaneously develop leaks.
The crimp-on connectors are great, but if installing in close quarters it can be difficult to get the tool on the fitting to crimp. This year I replumbedb most of my house when we removed the galvanized piping, and I decided to splurge and buy the Milwaukee tool for using the expansion fittings.
Doing the retrofit involved putting fittings in some really difficult to reach places, and the expansion piping is handy for this as you can expand it and it stays that way for long enough to push the pipe over the fitting. All you have to do is hold it in place till it tightens up and you're done.
I can see how there will be many places in a bus conversion where you'll be working in close quarters and where the expansion fittings will make the work easier. You also get better water flow in the same size fittings using the expansion ones vs. the crimp-on fittings.
I used these, as long as you don't bend the pex wrong when turning a corner on the line. Every bend is 2 less chances of a leak. If it gets bent to hard when installing the corner, it will restrict flow, lvmci.
Quote from: richard5933 on December 26, 2021, 06:46:58 PM
Even in a residential setting I was warned to never use Sharkbite fittings anywhere they cannot be accessed since they can spontaneously develop leaks.
The crimp-on connectors are great, but if installing in close quarters it can be difficult to get the tool on the fitting to crimp. This year I replumbedb most of my house when we removed the galvanized piping, and I decided to splurge and buy the Milwaukee tool for using the expansion fittings.
Doing the retrofit involved putting fittings in some really difficult to reach places, and the expansion piping is handy for this as you can expand it and it stays that way for long enough to push the pipe over the fitting. All you have to do is hold it in place till it tightens up and you're done.
I can see how there will be many places in a bus conversion where you'll be working in close quarters and where the expansion fittings will make the work easier. You also get better water flow in the same size fittings using the expansion ones vs. the crimp-on fittings.
I am familiar with the crimp on rings, but I'm going to have the explore the expansion method. Thanks
Seb
I use the Zurn expansion fitting,doing a conversion from the start there should be no close quarter's ,LVMCI method works good too I used those in some areas.Richards crimping machine is nice but costs it does take a lot of room for the Milwaukee or Dewalt .The Zurn pinch rings are easier to use than the squeeze type and can be removed with the Zurn tool,the preset Zurn pinch rings are about all I use.Buy the PEX pipe in straight lengths it is a lot easier to do a bus with than fighting the rolls BTDT
Whatever happen to copper tubing & flare like ours? Just saying...
Quote from: dtcerrato on December 27, 2021, 05:17:04 AM
Whatever happen to copper tubing & flare like ours? Just saying...
Have you priced copper lately,Pex is cheaper and better, in freezing weather it wont bulge and break like copper it is really good for RV use not like the old gray poly pipe that was used for years in RV's
Quote from: luvrbus on December 27, 2021, 05:38:37 AM
Have you priced copper lately,Pex is cheaper and better, in freezing weather it wont bulge and break like copper it is really good for RV use not like the old gray poly pipe that was used for years in RV's
Or CPVC. We just did a total re-do. Straight sticks and brass fittings. Home depot is your friend here.
Imho cheaper yes better no. 42 years in service.. Copper will expand if froze. Yes copper is gold because once & done forever, just like the 68 yo oem copper & brass piping designed in these antique beasts of beauty... That's my story & I'm stickin' toit. :^
Yes, copper will expand if frozen, but only a few cycles before it fails. Also, all the brake plumbing has changed to non copper over the years. At least copper has scrap value if replaced.
Copper is ok if protected, PEX is tough to beat in RV it
is so easy to work with, I haven't seen copper used in a RV in 30 years maybe longer and they are still around too.I wanted to add another heat exchanger to my Aqua Hot lol price the silicone 1 inch hose for hot water copper is cheap
Quote from: chessie4905 on December 27, 2021, 06:16:15 AM
Yes, copper will expand if frozen, but only a few cycles before it fails. Also, all the brake plumbing has changed to non copper over the years. At least copper has scrap value if replaced.
Cooper gets hard with age replacing air valves on the old buses plumbed with copper can be a nightmare
Custom Coach used copper in the conversion on my bus. I can say with absolute certainty that it will burst if frozen, as I had about half dozen repairs to make when we got the bus.
Pex will expand somewhat, but the fittings will not. Proper winter precautions still need to be taken.
I'm a big believer in copper with brazed joints instead of soldered. That's what I used for my shop air lines 20 years ago and have been more than happy with it. There is a fluxless brazing rod you use with a plumber's torch that really works great. If I plumb the bus that way and route the lines so they are self-draining and always remember to winterize, the only leaks that occur will be from other sources, not the plumbing itself. Also, plumbing in the RV does not have to be 1/2" ID line like residential. 3/8" is quite adequate. That cuts the cost a bit and makes routing easier. Later replacement of fittings can be a chore but that is what threaded connections are for. Do it once, do it right, and never think of it again. That's my opinion, and so far I haven't seen a need to change it.
Jim
Codes in some areas call for sliver stick when using copper now I been using silver stick for over 20 years for copper joints in the buliding trade some call it brazing
I noticed quite a bit of oem copper is brazed or soldered then flared or compression. Most our house conversion copper is soft refrigeration copper, very easily shaped and all fittings are flare which I flare all the tubing myself. Few compression. Main lines like to & from the HWH are 1/2" od all branch lines are 3/8" od. Absolutely issue free for 42 years now.
When in the big home improvement box stores seeing all the newer fandangled plastic brainstorming - it make me feel good I'm a dinosaur from an ealrier time....
Quote from: dtcerrato on December 27, 2021, 11:07:48 AM
I noticed quite a bit of oem copper is brazed or soldered then flared or compression. Most our house conversion copper is soft refrigeration copper, very easily shaped and all fittings are flare which I flare all the tubing myself. Few compression. Main lines like to & from the HWH are 1/2" od all branch lines are 3/8" od. Absolutely issue free for 42 years now.
When in the big home improvement box stores seeing all the newer fandangled plastic brainstorming - it make me feel good I'm a dinosaur from an ealrier time....
The FDA did copper in not the box stores for drinking water,a complete house plumbed with refrigeration copper that took some work to find fittings I bet since the OD is different
Refrigeration tubing goes by OD. Water piping copper goes by ID so 3/8" refrigeration tube uses 1/4" ID water fittings & so on - so fittings are absolutely no issue. Dad was a pipefitter by trade so I learned before being a busnut. ;D
Quote from: dtcerrato on December 27, 2021, 03:13:08 PM
Refrigeration tubing goes by OD. Water piping copper goes by ID so 3/8" refrigeration tube uses 1/4" ID water fittings & so on - so fittings are absolutely no issue. Dad was a pipefitter by trade so I learned before being a busnut. ;D
All the refrigeration tubing I bought in the last few years comes in MM and I cannot find fitting to work on the stuff
Quote from: luvrbus on December 27, 2021, 04:29:02 PM
All the refrigeration tubing I bought in the last few years comes in MM and I cannot find fitting to work on the stuff
Just about anything that is sized in metric is coming from overseas - not necessarily China but from overseas. When it comes to plumbing fittings & tube, pipe, etc. if you don't stay with SAE NPT, flare, etc. it becomes a nightmare real fast. BTDT. Italy manufactures some of the best valves in the world but could be a pita if it's not SAE. FWIW. British plumbing and USA SAE don't mix either.
Quote from: Sebulba on December 26, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
I am reactivating this thread to explore this one question. Are sharkbite type PEX fitting suitable for a vibration environment, such as a bus.
Or should I go the route of buying the crimper tool and such?
Seb
Quote from: dtcerrato on December 27, 2021, 04:49:55 PM
Just about anything that is sized in metric is coming from overseas -
If the US would stop acting like the British Empire in decline used to, and get with the program...
The rest of the world uses metric, even the British have given up...
Your turn?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
maybe we should switch to driving on opposite side of road while we are at it.
Our bus is plumbed with pex from the roll. Yes definitely a bit tangly.
Quote from: chessie4905 on December 27, 2021, 05:52:53 PM
maybe we should switch to driving on opposite side of road while we are at it.
Think about this. "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile or "Give them a 25.4mm and they'll take 1609.344 meters, nah doesn't sound right to me either lol!
Quote from: Van on December 27, 2021, 06:22:53 PM
Think about this. "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile or "Give them a 25.4mm and they'll take 1609.344 meters, nah doesn't sound right to me either lol!
Haha nice one van
Quote from: buswarrior on December 27, 2021, 05:03:05 PM
If the US would stop acting like the British Empire in decline used to, and get with the program...
The rest of the world uses metric, even the British have given up...
Your turn?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
As a Brit, I agree! At least the USA is in the hallowed company of those only other non-metric industrial superpowers of the world, Myanmar and Liberia. Go for it, roods and furkins!
John
(who happily uses Sharkbite push-on PEX connectors)
We were close to the switching to metric in the 70s. Our entire school had switched over after about a year of practice. Then it became political in Washington and we all know how well that works out.
Ever since we've been dealing with vehicles and machinery with both metric and SAE hardware. What a mess. Pick a plan and stick with it.
Back to plumbing... Copper might be the gold standard of plumbing for many, and at on time was the only long lived option, but today there are a few reliable methods. Pex has been around long enough to pass the reliability test, and it can't be beat for ease of install.
Another advantage for pex is that it's lightweight. Many brag about how heavy their coaches are, but carrying extra weight is not a good thing. Pounds add up, whether it's plumbing or plywood.
I remember in the 80 GM models when they started to change over to metric fasteners. Had to buy10, 13, 15, 16, and 18mm wrenches and sockets. Then the current metric cap screw replacement had a 17mm head instead of GM's 15. Still seeing both types on various products.
We are getting there slowly but steady,the metric system has been used on fuel systems on engines for many years because you can get closer tolerance with the metric than SAE lol I still prefer the SAE ,and like the range of grades you can get on metric bolts though,wheel studs are prime example no need for 2 different nuts on wheels now
OK think about this. Metric sizes are less than ideal. When was the last time you used a 16mm or 11mm or 9 mm or 7mm anything? OK, maybe 11 but rarely. So why are they even there? Can't really say that for fractional sizes. And as far as the ballyhooed metric accuracy, I call BS. That's just numbers and you can work in tenths of a thou just as easy as metric and lots of people do and to the same standards of accuracy, which is the limit of what the technology enables.
It's just more European market manipulation. The US is the largest market in the world so how is it that the little guys get to determine the standards? Purely political economic warfare and our esteemed electorate has been too busy lining their pockets to see the big picture. Which is business as usual I guess, but you'll notice that these pockets of resistance aren't going away and that's for the very simple reason that they are right. So you want your steel and aluminum plate in metric sizes now do you? Yeah, I can see that happening real soon. Just about the time the US shuts down production entirely and probably not even then.
But the same argument of old verses new never changes, and progress is made at something less than the rate that it is shown to be commercially advantageous. That's important enough to say twice. Commercially advantageous, not politically feasible. Never fast enough for the young and never slow enough for the old. So what's new?
Jim
use 7mm all the time. GM uses those on small dash fasteners for years. 16MM Used on power steering bracket and inverted flare lines for power steering and other lines. 11 and 9 mm rarely used except to fit a smaller nut that is rusted bad and pound the socket on.
It may be BS tear into on the high pressure rail system it is going to be metric made in the USA Cat went to metric years ago on their injection pumps for better fuel injection spray pattern measurement,all fuel injection is done in metric now made in the USA lol your series 60 in the MCI is about all metric ,you will find 16,11,9 and 7 on those so keep those handy
Isn't google american?
The European Union is one of the most outward-oriented economies in the world. It is also the world's largest single market area.
They also outnumber you.
But that's just more fake news?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I never used the Sharkbite,in H/D yesterday I looked at some wow it could cost a lot to use those for a plumbing job,a 25 buck crimping tool and 6 bucks for rings would be cheap.I have a ? when the instructuctions say not "recommend for use behind covered walls why would you use those. They look to be the same principal as the push on air fitting that I change out all the time for leaking on buses.Suppliers gouge you for compression type DOT fitting to replace the push on too I pay 5 bucks ea for a friggn 1/4 in DOT compression fitting about the same as a 1/2 inch Sharkbite ,lol I can buy the push on 1/4 inch DOT fitting for $0.80 each WTH
To all who are saying the metric system is so great. Not all metric bolts are the same. I owned an import car repair shop for many years. We pretty much worked on anything from any country. If you were working on a German, French, or Italian car you would pretty much use odd numbered wrenches. IE 9,11,13 etc. If working on Japanese cars it was even numbers. Everyone used 10 and 17. Some German cars you couldn't just grab a 1/2 inch wrench for a 13mm bolt head, it was too small.
Thread pitches weren't the same either. I only found one bolt supplier that could furnish the correct bolts and head size for everything I worked on. I tried to keep things as they came originally. My bolt supply was huge.
When Ford started building cars with German engines, anything that was bolted to the engine after it got here had inch size bolt heads with metric threads. When England switched there were Triumphs with brake systems that were metric on one end and inch on the other with an odd junction in the middle to hook them together.
Don't say it's easier, even after all of those years of that, in order to visualize the size of something I have to convert it to inch.
Quote from: somewhereinusa on December 29, 2021, 07:26:37 AM
To all who are saying the metric system is so great. Not all metric bolts are the same. I owned an import car repair shop for many years. We pretty much worked on anything from any country. If you were working on a German, French, or Italian car you would pretty much use odd numbered wrenches. IE 9,11,13 etc. If working on Japanese cars it was even numbers. Everyone used 10 and 17. Some German cars you couldn't just grab a 1/2 inch wrench for a 13mm bolt head, it was too small.
Thread pitches weren't the same either. I only found one bolt supplier that could furnish the correct bolts and head size for everything I worked on. I tried to keep things as they came originally. My bolt supply was huge.
When Ford started building cars with German engines, anything that was bolted to the engine after it got here had inch size bolt heads with metric threads. When England switched there were Triumphs with brake systems that were metric on one end and inch on the other with an odd junction in the middle to hook them together.
Don't say it's easier, even after all of those years of that, in order to visualize the size of something I have to convert it to inch.
I came across the different countries metric size in 70's what a pain it was.Sonja has a Triumph with the 1500 cc engine that thing has every type bolt made I think,I still like the grade 12 metric bolts though
>I still like the grade 12 metric bolts though
Yeah, see even that was a scam. When you look up the actual specs on the bolts they convert to a lower number used in the SAE hardware. There is no consistency.
Jim
Quote from: luvrbus on December 29, 2021, 04:28:22 AM
I never used the Sharkbite,in H/D yesterday I looked at some wow it could cost a lot to use those for a plumbing job,a 25 buck crimping tool and 6 bucks for rings would be cheap.I have a ? when the instructuctions say not "recommend for use behind covered walls why would you use those. They look to be the same principal as the push on air fitting that I change out all the time for leaking on buses.Suppliers gouge you for compression type DOT fitting to replace the push on too I pay 5 bucks ea for a friggn 1/4 in DOT compression fitting about the same as a 1/2 inch Sharkbite ,lol I can buy the push on 1/4 inch DOT fitting for $0.80 each WTH
I use the sharbite stick pipes and Pex fitting with pex rings. Only because I bought a coffee can of Pex rings and two Pex tools, one for 1/2" and 3/4" rings that are big pliers and one you squeeze with vice grips from 1/4" to 1" which I didn't even know they made that size at an Estate sale all for $10.00
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on December 29, 2021, 08:32:06 AM
>I still like the grade 12 metric bolts though
Yeah, see even that was a scam. When you look up the actual specs on the bolts they convert to a lower number used in the SAE hardware. There is no consistency.
Jim
Once I get all the broken bolts from a Allison pan I tap to metric flange bolt they don't twist off like the Allison pan bolts ,works for me
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on December 29, 2021, 08:32:06 AM
Yeah, see even that was a scam. When you look up the actual specs on the bolts they convert to a lower number used in the SAE hardware. There is no consistency.
Jim
Am I getting the notion that the whole metric thing has triggered a bit of an issue here?
I don't mind metric bolts ,when we were buying gasoline and diesel by the liter in the 70's it sucked I am glad that didn't last,lol I like 55 gal barrel better than 42 gal too
On a side note, notice how toilet paper rolls are smaller than before?
Quote from: chessie4905 on December 29, 2021, 05:20:44 PM
On a side note, notice how toilet paper rolls are smaller than before?
That's got nothing to do with metric and everything to do with the companies trying to give us less for more money. Same as a half gallon of ice cream now only containing 1.5 quarts, or a pound cake now weighing 10.75 ounces. Or a pound of coffee only weighing 12 ounces.
I've called companies about this for years - the answer is always "we didn't want to raise the price". When I explained that giving us less product for the same money IS raising prices, I get the equivalent of a blank stare on the phone.
Toilet paper, paper towels, dinner napkins, they're all smaller than they used to be.
Yes, has nothing to do with metric. Just companies dealing with controlling costs from dealing with inflation, regulations, competitiveness, pressures from owners of their stock,now carbon footprint, etc.Don't know if our mfgrs would have gone metric if they didn't want to expand their markets to the rest of the world.
Did you call companies when they started reducing 2x4's years ago?lol I remember when the Whopper came out years ago. It was huge compared to now.
I use pex for all plumbing jobs ..... and only the solid rings and try to only use 3/4"
some of the +'s are it you want to change or add to a pex system all pex joints can be turned . like a nut so you never need a union on every section ( with out damaging the fitting )
I like that you can use red for hot and blue for cold
( helps for the old guy thing )
yes it might be hard to get the pex crimper into some places but then you just need to pre do the joints before putting it in a tight place
I always use fittings and not bend the pipe to go around corners
the rings and the ONLY pex crimper I use .
https://www.walmart.com/ip/IWISS-Combo-Angle-Head-PEX-Pipe-Crimping-Tool-Kits-Used-1-2-3-4-Pex-Crimp-Go-No-Go-Gauge-Cutters-suits-All-US-F1807-Standards-IWS-C-1-2-3-4-KIt/288779572
but I do carry a vise grip crimper in the coach
https://www.walmart.com/ip/SUPERIOR-TOOL-07100-Pex-Crimp-Tool/19898689?athcpid=19898689&athpgid=AthenaItempage&athcgid=null&athznid=si&athieid=v0&athstid=CS055&athguid=uqvA4mAlAjQPJtXJ-jwxyZsVsaJRcPmILJxN&athancid=null&athposb=0&athena=true
pex the best thing since sliced bread !!!!
dave
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on December 27, 2021, 10:37:33 AM
I'm a big believer in copper with brazed joints instead of soldered. That's what I used for my shop air lines 20 years ago and have been more than happy with it. There is a fluxless brazing rod you use with a plumber's torch that really works great. If I plumb the bus that way and route the lines so they are self-draining and always remember to winterize, the only leaks that occur will be from other sources, not the plumbing itself. Also, plumbing in the RV does not have to be 1/2" ID line like residential. 3/8" is quite adequate. That cuts the cost a bit and makes routing easier. Later replacement of fittings can be a chore but that is what threaded connections are for. Do it once, do it right, and never think of it again. That's my opinion, and so far I haven't seen a need to change it.
Jim
Brazed fitting, Wow! you are better man than I am.
Seb
Pex is ideal for looping in heated floors,I prefer the Zurn rings myself,they work better for me and easiser for me in tight spots.The Zurn crimper is not cheap though both types are good if you use the go/no go gauge to set the crimper with, they last forever
Seb, I doubt it. I just ran across this no-flux rod for copper tubing decades ago, probably a refrigeration guy showed it to me. The one I've been using is Forney I think, if only because it is widely available but I'm sure there are less expensive options that are just as good or better. Key phrase is -no flux on copper-. The phosphorus in the rod eliminates the need for a flux.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/forney-48571-super-sil-flo-brazing-rod-1-8-in-1-2-lb-1175417?cm_mmc=feed-_-BingShopping-_-Product-_-1175417&msclkid=4562e33518f5101efd9482fa6f6ce2c4&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%20All%20Products&utm_term=4585375807245420&utm_content=All%20Products
First time I brazed copper tube I used regular brazing rod. That worked OK but using this phosphor-bronze rod is very much like soldering, except it wets better, is much stronger and doesn't run off as bad. You do need more heat and some sort of heat shield so as not to scorch stuff. I use a plumber's torch which burns acetylene without the oxygen and has a soft flame but I expect MAPP gas will work.
Jim