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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: van on August 15, 2008, 02:34:16 PM

Title: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: van on August 15, 2008, 02:34:16 PM
  Just curious,if given the oportunity to a free BIG hp motor upgrade(YEH I Know)what motor would of choice would you pick to have installed?,DD15,Cat,Cummins,Etc?


  Perspireing mind wants to know

   Van 8)
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: cody on August 15, 2008, 02:38:00 PM
Perspiring minds want to know is a variation that really doesn't fit a busnut, my preferance has always been "expiring minds want to know" but thats ok cause we all do things our own way lol.
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: makemineatwostroke on August 15, 2008, 02:45:37 PM
If you have a cash cow to milk to feed the big horses they are all about the same but I would not count on getting a DD15 only 6818 have been manufactured so far as Aug 12th
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: HB of CJ on August 15, 2008, 03:15:31 PM
Hee hee hee, I love a good plan.  If $money$ was no concern, a "Pittsburg Fuel Injection Special" based upon a "pancake" (horizional) Cummins Big Cam 2 would be ideal.  I would settle for the "street version-- daily driver" model producing "only" about 750 hp and 2200 pounds of torque.

Would need a heavy duty tandem drive rear end, an appropriate overdrive 10-speed Roadranger, suitable U-joints and driveline, a big enough clutch and a three stage Jake.  Let's see... 3.08 drivers, a 34% overdrive 10th gear and 12Rx24.5 tires should equal about 130 mph at 2400 rpm.

Don't know how exactly it would be properly cooled.  Suspect it would take a large dedicated second radiator along with a huge air to air intercooler.  Wonder what the fuel mileage would be cruising at a cool 100 mph?  Three to four mpg?  How about flat wide open at 125 mph?  My feeble mind boggles.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Brian Diehl on August 15, 2008, 03:30:17 PM
ABC Bus here in MN has a number of Cummins ISM motors with Allison B500 transmissions attached to them.  All ready to go!

Check out my conversion:

http://home.earthlink.net/~diehls0792_1/BusSection10.html
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Michael_e on August 15, 2008, 04:09:09 PM
I guess i don't get out too often. I've heard the words Cummings & Cat before, but what is DD15??

Thanks,

Mike
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Busted Knuckle on August 15, 2008, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: Michael_e on August 15, 2008, 04:09:09 PM
I guess i don't get out too often. I've heard the words Cummings & Cat before, but what is DD15??

Thanks,

Mike

Hi Mike,
And not trying to make ya feel bad, but you must be correct about not getting out much! First off even if the # is a new one. What is the name of the most commonly talked about bus engine. Which engine is most commonly found in buses, unless special ordered or swapped by a busnut? Which engine just screams & screams & screams and the more ya make it scream the more it likes it?

Detroit Diesel! Now I know that the #15 could throw ya temporaily, but how ya miss the DD?

It's ok though, we all gotta learn sometime.
And several things gramma used to tell me.
#1) The day ya stop learn'n somethin new everyday is the day they should put ya in a hole!
#2) Just 'cause a mans got all kinds of books and college degrees don't mean he's got any smarts, just $!
#3) Nobody's perfectly worthless, they can always be a good "bad example"!
Now many times when I was in my 20's I heard #3 over an over. funny thing is, she wasn't talk'n too me. But rather my younger cousins, while look'n at me! Hmmm wonder was she try'n to tell them something that I never caught onto?

OK now one of my personal sayings I don't even remember where I first heard it, is "The only dumb or stupid question is the one that's not asked!

;D  BK  ;D
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: buswarrior on August 15, 2008, 05:23:34 PM
yeah, what BK said.

In shorter form: the DD15 is the replacement for the Series 60.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Ednj on August 15, 2008, 06:30:06 PM
Just keep the one you have
and add a gallon of this- http://www.unbelievablerc.com/detail.php?pid=3  ::)
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: HighTechRedneck on August 15, 2008, 07:12:20 PM
Quote from: Ednj on August 15, 2008, 06:30:06 PM
Just keep the one you have
and add a gallon of this- http://www.unbelievablerc.com/detail.php?pid=3  ::)

;D ;D ;D

That HAS to be somebody's left over April Fools Day prank!
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: PP on August 15, 2008, 08:53:53 PM
Quote from: Ednj on August 15, 2008, 06:30:06 PM
Just keep the one you have
and add a gallon of this- http://www.unbelievablerc.com/detail.php?pid=3  ::)
The stuff is truly amazing, but it only works on body parts ;), unlike what the ad says about your nitro powerplant ::)
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Len Silva on August 16, 2008, 07:32:12 AM
Cool site.  Seems to me someone was asking about muffler bearings in an earlier post.  They've got them and only $12.95.  Keeps your exhaust moving freely and smoothly.
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: HighTechRedneck on August 16, 2008, 08:25:03 AM
Let's not miss their overnight weight reduction soak.   ;D

http://www.unbelievablerc.com/detail.php?pid=5

But the absolute best one of all (and it even makes sense in an abstract sort of way):

http://www.unbelievablerc.com/detail.php?pid=1

Use it instead of foam or rigid foam insulation and watch your mpg get MUCH better.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Michael_e on August 16, 2008, 09:40:54 AM
OK, ya guys got me on that one. Guess i needed to be a bit more specific. I DO know that DD is Detroit Diesel, but didn't know what the 15 meant. 15 Liters? 15 K more dollar? And ya can keep ribbing me when i goof up as long as i end up with the info i need, what's it gonna mean in a hundred years? 

Here's a really weird question; Has anyone ever taken a bus to Bonneville and run for a world land speed record??

Thanks,

MIke
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Dallas on August 16, 2008, 09:43:16 AM
Mike,

Here ya go...

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/engines/dd15/
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: NJT 5573 on August 16, 2008, 04:36:00 PM
I don't think cooling would be a problem with the Pittsburg Power engine.

You should be over the mountain before you can get it hot. They use boost to blow the heat away and retard the timing to keep the heat down and the power up. They will do any engine mfg for you but began as a Cummins Dealer.

If you want BIG Horsepower, Pittsburg Diesel is where you go, no one else even comes close.
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Lin on August 16, 2008, 05:54:14 PM
Pratt and Whitney!
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: ojgetaway32 on August 18, 2008, 01:04:30 PM
16V92 Quad Turbo
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: HB of CJ on August 18, 2008, 01:25:36 PM
I would love to take my 1974 Crown Super Coach to Bonneville to set a Bus Conversions land speed record, but unfortunately I sold the Crown.  Oh well.  But....I'm already looking for another.

Also I lack the $100K or sooss it would take to buy and install the formentioned "Pittsburg Fuel Injection Special" Cummins Big Cam 2 along with all the other reqired stuff to go 125 mph anyway.

Right now, like alot of other people, I am hunkering down and trying to spend as little $money$ as possible.  Yeah, wish me luck.  He he he.  Plus, someone else would just go faster.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Len Silva on August 18, 2008, 03:08:43 PM
Remember Tommy Ivo's  dragster years back that had 4 V-8's Buick engines.  With a little engineering and a truly wonky transmission you could do the same thing in a bus. 4 Series 60's should work.
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: PP on August 18, 2008, 03:50:45 PM
I love my 892 and wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. All the power I need and a tad to spare ;D
But you gotta love the idea of unlimited resources hehe
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: van on August 18, 2008, 04:29:58 PM
All great Ideas especially liked by myself was the 16V92DD,hey if 6 is bitchin lets add 10 more .When it comes to power to weight ratio I would like to experiment with the M-1 Abrahms engine (AGT1500)1500HP,un governed it can propell the M-1 (68 TONS combat loaded)Abrahms well over 100mph.Unfortunate for the military that the are having trouble developing a track system that can hold together at that speed.There are how ever tires that can exeed that speed admirably.only set back I can for see are the insurance claims for melting the front end of the cars that love to tale gate your bumper at hiway speeds (YEH THAT'S RIGHT SUCKKA JUST A LITTLE CLOSER)in traffic ,just think you won't have to tote ya grill with ya,could cook the meal on the 1100 degree exhaust.winter start ups would be a thing of the past hit the go button and away you go.
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on August 18, 2008, 05:03:13 PM
The nicest installation I ever saw was in a customers yacht. It had three DD24V149's in it. I do not remember the hp. Each engine consisted of three 8V149's coupled together as I recall.

Richard
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: makemineatwostroke on August 18, 2008, 05:54:20 PM
Richard, that would be a V20 149 2300 hp they came in V8 -V12-V16-V20 fwiw
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Brian Diehl on August 19, 2008, 06:25:34 AM
Quote from: makemineatwostroke on August 18, 2008, 05:54:20 PM
Richard, that would be a V20 149 2300 hp they came in V8 -V12-V16-V20 fwiw

I can't imagine the fuel burn per hour on that HP motor! 
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on August 19, 2008, 06:32:48 AM
Quote from: makemineatwostroke on August 18, 2008, 05:54:20 PM
Richard, that would be a V20 149 2300 hp they came in V8 -V12-V16-V20 fwiw

The yacht belonged to Roger Penske and he had these engines installed when he bought the yacht and he still owned DD. They had to cut out the side of the yacht to install these monsters.  I am fairly certain they were V-24's. Either three V8's or two V12's coupled together in line.

Richard
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: HB of CJ on August 19, 2008, 01:52:55 PM
Was the name of the yacht the "Detroit Eagle" or "Detroit Princess"?  or something like that?  If memory serves (which is always wrong!) didn't that boat have four (4) 16V149TI's?  Pumped WAY up!  Anyway, 50kts at light load and could cross the Atlantic at 20 kts.  Wow!!!  Wish I was that rich.  He he he.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Lin on August 19, 2008, 01:58:43 PM
Why, who do you want to visit in across the Atlantic in your yacht?
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: HB of CJ on August 19, 2008, 02:35:39 PM
Dunno.  And I get really seasick while still standing on the dock!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Dreamscape on August 19, 2008, 02:49:10 PM
Yuse guys crack me up!!!! ;D ;D ;D ::)
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: REK on August 20, 2008, 07:31:59 AM
Quote:  .   .   .   only set back I can for see are the insurance claims for melting the front end of the cars that love to tale gate your bumper at highway speeds   .   .   .

Van:

Back in the middle / late 70's my Dad converted a '54 Flxible 'Chest Cruiser' with a little GMC V6 (401) with some minor carburetor ~ issues ~.  Dad settled on a pair of glass packs after burning out a pair of very expansive Walker mufflers.  Did I mention that the exhaust system amounted to a 12 to 18 inch drop, a 90 degree elbow and the muffler.  Every time he backed off the throttle, it belched fire behind us 5 or 6 feet.  When traveling, he found that people only tailgated him once   ;)  For those of you who know Bob Stirling, ask him about about the Chest X-Ray Cruiser, Conjob.

Rick

Now I return to my lurking   :P



Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on August 20, 2008, 07:35:12 AM
Quote from: HB of CJ on August 19, 2008, 01:52:55 PM
Was the name of the yacht the "Detroit Eagle" or "Detroit Princess"?  or something like that?  If memory serves (which is always wrong!) didn't that boat have four (4) 16V149TI's?  Pumped WAY up!  Anyway, 50kts at light load and could cross the Atlantic at 20 kts.  Wow!!!  Wish I was that rich.  He he he.  :) :) :)
Yep, that was her name. My memory, or what is left of it, says V-24's but maybe not.

Richard
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: HighTechRedneck on August 20, 2008, 08:16:48 AM
Looks like it has been upgraded.

http://www.yachtingmagazine.com/article.jsp?ID=21014925

QuoteBuilt entirely of aluminum, Detroit Eagle is powered by two of DDC/MTU's largest marine diesels, the 16-cylinder 4000 series, which put out 3,650 hp each.

QuoteThe diesels push the yacht to an easy, all-day cruise speed of 23 knots at 1850 rpm, but occasionally Penske wants a little more. That's when the centerline surprise, a Lycoming TF-50 gas turbine, kicks in to contribute an additional 5,600 hp. For the combined diesel and gas turbine package, fuel burn at full power is nearly 750 gph. Long-range cruising at 14 knots consumes a much more reasonable 65 gph.
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: Brian Diehl on August 20, 2008, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: HighTechRedneck on August 20, 2008, 08:16:48 AM
Looks like it has been upgraded.

http://www.yachtingmagazine.com/article.jsp?ID=21014925

QuoteBuilt entirely of aluminum, Detroit Eagle is powered by two of DDC/MTU's largest marine diesels, the 16-cylinder 4000 series, which put out 3,650 hp each.

QuoteThe diesels push the yacht to an easy, all-day cruise speed of 23 knots at 1850 rpm, but occasionally Penske wants a little more. That's when the centerline surprise, a Lycoming TF-50 gas turbine, kicks in to contribute an additional 5,600 hp. For the combined diesel and gas turbine package, fuel burn at full power is nearly 750 gph. Long-range cruising at 14 knots consumes a much more reasonable 65 gph.

WOW!!!!  Is all I have to say. 
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: luvrbus on August 20, 2008, 09:33:21 AM
Just think guys all of that power for a mere 40+ million
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: HB of CJ on August 20, 2008, 01:24:22 PM
Regarding that boat...Wow!!, more wow and more more WOW!  It would be sooss neat to be soooss $rich$.  Notice that the yacht employeeees 471 Detroits for the APU's?  It think it is neat that the owner held out for that cool "retro" sound when the gen sets are running....if one could hear them a all.   :) :) :)
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on August 20, 2008, 01:32:25 PM
Quote from: luvrbus on August 20, 2008, 09:33:21 AM
Just think guys all of that power for a mere 40+ million

That's the lady. I suspect that the writeup is on a second yacht he had built by FedShip, who is the premier yacht builder in the world. I guess you could compare them to Rolls Royce in the automotive industry.
I left the industry about the same time this yacht was launched and I doubt if I ever saw her but I suspect that my equipment was on board this one also. Good to reminisce about the good times.

Richard
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on August 20, 2008, 01:38:26 PM
Quote from: HB of CJ on August 20, 2008, 01:24:22 PM
Regarding that boat...Wow!!, more wow and more more WOW!  It would be sooss neat to be soooss $rich$.  Notice that the yacht employeeees 471 Detroits for the APU's?  It think it is neat that the owner held out for that cool "retro" sound when the gen sets are running....if one could hear them a all.   :) :) :)

I can assure you that you would never hear the 471's unless you were in the engine room and I really do not know for sure about that. You have to really see one of these beauties to really appreciate it. Some of my most memorable experiences are from the times I attended the Monaco boat shows and got to tour all the super yachts anchored there.

Richard
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: kyle4501 on August 20, 2008, 01:42:02 PM
I could retire on the fuel bill  :o

At 12,650 gallons  -   over $60,000 just to fill it up!

4.6 gallon per knot at the efficient speed of 14 knots . . . . .

35 knots at full power & a fuel burn of 750 gallons per hour! ! ! ! 20+ gal per knot!


So that is what it's like to be really rich!  8)



I'm guessing he didn't make many friends at greenpeace or the sierra club when he bought that one  :o
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on August 20, 2008, 03:59:03 PM
One thing that you may not be aware of is that most yachts are not sailed across on their own bottoms when they go to the med in the spring and back to the Caribbean in the fall.

There is a company that has a special boat that they can add water to the bilges and sink it several feet. The yachts to be transported are then floated in and then secured with cribbing and lines and then the mother boat pumps the water out of the bilges and rises and all the yachts on board are high and dry. One way passage for a 100 ft yacht is approximately $100,000.

I can brag that I got to pat Ivana (Trump) on her bottom one time. LOL
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: TomC on August 20, 2008, 06:20:09 PM
As stated previously- I think the Detroit Series 60 (2645lbs)or DD15 (3,000lbs), the Caterpillar C15 or 3406 (2950lbs), 3408 (3250lbs), the Cummins ISX (3,000lbs), N14 (2875lbs), etc are physically to big and heavy for the usage we are giving them.  The current engines I'd use is the Cummins ISM (2,220lbs), Mercedes-Benz 4000  Series (2200lbs), or the Caterpillar C12 (2300lbs).  These three will fit in the height of a Detroit 2 stroker, will give alot better fuel mileage and will pull like bull.  Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: BIG HORSIE POWER
Post by: van on August 20, 2008, 11:30:49 PM
Quote from: Dreamscape on August 19, 2008, 02:49:10 PM
Yuse guys crack me up!!!! ;D ;D ;D ::)