Another crash it is sad when so many die.
WVanative
Not sure if this is the same one. It happend just north of Dallas. They say he may have blown a front tire.
So sad.
Paul
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Sherman2C-Texas-Dallas-Texas-state-trooper/photo//080808/480/c65eeea8d20441048ae52344ce64fff4//s:/ap/20080808/ap_on_re_us/texas_bus_crash;_ylt=AqQiL1uycL7IVS8VIjJ_EJZH2ocA
More info: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080808/ap_on_re_us/texas_bus_crash
Yes very sad indeed, I cringe everytime I read about these! Especially if I have one out on the road anywhere! (and these days it seems atleast 1 is out somewhere!) I tell ya I don't sleep well at all if they are not all tucked in safely down by the shop, but it's hard to make any $ when they are here! BK
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/08/national/main4331652.shtml
The latest death toll is now up to 14 people.
Has any one noted what kind of a coach it was?
MCI?
I have to wonder about just what happens with a blow out. I blew the right front tire on my 4104 at about 65 MPH. All that happened was that I coasted to a stop and cussed a lot.
I also wonder about all the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire incidents over the years. As a kid, driving on $5.00 used tires, I had more than my share, never came close to losing control.
The only thing that makes sense to me is the driver panicking and stabbing the brake. I hate to fault the driver if it was unavoidable, but....
What i wonder about is why so many?? seems like yrs ago when i got my bus you hardly ever heard of one crashing, now it seems like a everyday thing, same thing with the small planes which i also had and flew in the 70 s and 80 s makes me wonde whats going on
Frank Allen 4106 2626
Quote from: kingfa39 on August 08, 2008, 08:45:20 AM
What i wonder about is why so many?? seems like yrs ago when i got my bus you hardly ever heard of one crashing, now it seems like a everyday thing, same thing with the small planes which i also had and flew in the 70 s and 80 s makes me wonde whats going on
Frank Allen 4106 2626
Two things come to mind. Cutting corners on preventative maintenance for budgetary reasons. And in the case of hired drivers, less skilled drivers being hired either for cost reasons or becuase better ones weren't available. As some have noted here before, there is a definite difference between a professional driver and a steering wheel holder.
Let's not forget the absolute oversaturation of news reporting, and that in the past, there were stories that didn't get reported.
No greater or lesser carnage, we just hear about it in a more sensationalized way than in days gone by.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on August 08, 2008, 09:06:41 AM
Let's not forget the absolute oversaturation of news reporting, and that in the past, there were stories that didn't get reported.
No greater or lesser carnage, we just hear about it in a more sensationalized way than in days gone by.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
While it does certainly seem to happen more often these days, let's not forget the power of the internet to spread these stories at lighting speed! Of course as others have pointed out lack of quality drivers, improper maintenance, driver fatigue, and the media hype are all contributors too! JMHO! FWIW! ;D BK ;D
Here ya go.
http://www.kxii.com/news/headlines/26411414.html (http://www.kxii.com/news/headlines/26411414.html)
I'v had blow outs and just coast to a stop. That's in ideal conditions. The driver may have used the brakes. What if a front blows out on a curve when you are braking already? and you have no room to coast in a straight line to a safe stop. An old, underinflated tire might be fine going straight, then the sideways forces of a curve in the road is the straw that breaks the tire's back...
Would be interesting to know the condition of the steer tires on that bus. Maybe they were fine and one struck a sharp piece of metal to make it blow...
A reminder to check tires often and run good ones!
JC
The operator has a unsatisfactory rating. :'(
see below web site.
http://ai.fmcsa.dot.gov/Passenger/carrier_detail.asp?DOT=544466&State=TX&Zipcode=&VehicleType=Motor_Coach&order=&keyword=
Quote from: roadrunnertex on August 08, 2008, 11:52:15 AM
The operator has a unsatisfactory rating. :'(
see below web site.
http://ai.fmcsa.dot.gov/Passenger/carrier_detail.asp?DOT=544466&State=TX&Zipcode=&VehicleType=Motor_Coach&order=&keyword=
Isn't that the same outfit that had an accident last year or thereabouts?
Name sounds familiar.
Paul
Quote from: Dreamscape on August 08, 2008, 12:07:43 PM
Quote from: roadrunnertex on August 08, 2008, 11:52:15 AM
The operator has a unsatisfactory rating. :'(
see below web site.
http://ai.fmcsa.dot.gov/Passenger/carrier_detail.asp?DOT=544466&State=TX&Zipcode=&VehicleType=Motor_Coach&order=&keyword=
Isn't that the same outfit that had an accident last year or thereabouts?
Name sounds familiar.
Paul
Beats me. But I can assure you I don't for minute buy the "blown tire" story! BK
Landing from an overpass could have easily blew the tire, if it landed on that wheel first. Have to wait intil NTSB finishes their investigation. Jack
Quote from: JackConrad on August 08, 2008, 12:23:08 PM
Landing from an overpass could have easily blew the tire, if it landed on that wheel first. Have to wait intil NTSB finishes their investigation. Jack
Skidding over the guard rail could've too!
Now in reference to my last statement I offer this link to proof I have some first hand knowledge of the blown tire episode!
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on July 06, 2006, 09:39:26 PM
;D BK ;D
This is the latest.
You get's what you pay for folks!
DALLAS (AP) - Federal records show the bus that wrecked in an accident that killed 13 members of a Houston church was not properly licensed to operate.
The bus was operated by Iguala BusMex Incorporated of Houston, according to licensing information on the vehicle. Records show that the company has an application pending with the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration but has not been approved for operation.
The charter bus was carrying a Vietnamese Catholic group to an annual pilgrimage early Friday when it slammed onto its side and then skidded off a freeway early Friday, killing at least 13 people and injuring more than 40, authorities said.
The company sought certification from the agency June 26, just weeks after it filed incorporation papers with the Texas Secretary of State.
The company's owner and address is the same as another bus company, Angel Tours Inc. that was forced by the FMCSA to take its vehicles out of interstate service June 23 as a result of an unsatisfactory compliance review in May.
Outside a Houston building at that address, a weathered plywood sign bore the name "Angel Tours." A man inside declined to identify himself and told The Associated Press he had no comment when asked if he was affiliated with the company or if it owned the bus involved in the crash.
WOW
August 8th, 2008
Fatal bus crash had recapped tire
Posted: 08:54 PM ET
DALLAS, Texas (CNN) — The bus that overturned Friday morning in northern Texas killing 15 people was equipped with a recapped tire on the right front, in violation of safety rules, a federal investigator said Friday.
"The right tire on the steer axle was a Goodyear tire and it had been recapped," National Transportation Safety Board Member Debbie Hersman told reporters. Though the trucking industry commonly uses recapped tires to extend the tires' lifespan, "they cannot be placed on the steer axle of the bus," she said.
The tire was the only one of 10 bus tires that was recapped, and it was the only one whose tread separated, she said.
The ban on recapped tires from the steer axle is intended to limit the chance that a sudden loss of tire pressure could cause the driver to lose control of the vehicle, Hersman said.
This is a tragic accident that should have not happened.
So now this accident is going to cost us tax payers a lot of bucks in more ways than one.
The bus charter company will not have any insurance and it's owners will probably head back to Mexico.
This is the 2nd major bus accident in Texas that was caused by shady charter companies that had no regard for the rules that major charter bus companies have to operate by.
To bad that US DOT can't shut these type of outfits down before the cause a major problem.
No folks I don't own a bus charter company.
jlv
To bad the company owner cannot be arrested, placed in jail and charged with 14 counts of murder. Jack
To put a recap on the steering axle of a bus shows utter disregard for any safety whatsoever!
Jack
Quote from: JackConrad on August 09, 2008, 05:34:21 AM
To bad the company owner cannot be arrested, placed in jail and charged with 14 counts of murder. Jack
I agree. It seems almost like a case could be made for "negligent homicide". But usually all that will have is they will get sued for wrongful death. They'll let their insurance cover it or if they are uninsured, underinsured or the court doesn't allow insurance to cover it they'll file bankruptcy. Another family member will buy the assets and start the business back up.
I would go so far as to say that no one on this board, and I know some of us are occaisionally strapped for cash, would EVER put a recap on the steer axles of our buses. That's begging for trouble. I can't think of the words to describe a bus company that would do it or a bus driver that would actually drive a bus with steer axle recaps.
DOT regs.
(d) No bus shall be operated with regrooved, recapped or retreaded tires on the front wheels.
There's a bigger story here, too. How many churches, with limited finances, skimp on cost and charter the cheapest operator?
John will remember the MCI that ran into a bridge east of Dallas a few years ago, driver was fatigued and had drugs in his system. When I was listening to the radio news that day, the church spokesman was a minister, husband of one of Phyllis' friends, and who helped us move. The original operator had subcontracted out the second bus.
Running internally, a church I belonged to was going to use its cutaway for a ski trip from Dallas to Colorado. The youth minister planned two drivers, one was going to sleep in the back of the van from Dallas to El Paso, to be a fresh driver (by the way, it was the youth group, a load of teenagers). I counseled him to fly the second driver to El Paso - telling him that if he wanted to grow the youth group, he should try not to kill off the current members.
So, what can we do? Get with your own church, school groups, whatever - and bring them up to speed on the safety rating. Bring the reports of this accident, turn the tables and scare the hell out of the priest/minister/rabbi. Help them scare the hell out of the congregation.
After a major wreck in Mineola 10-12 years ago, I developed a church bus safety presentation for volunteers. Among other things, it covered how to run in a convoy, things I learned as a young bus driver (yes, buses had been invented by then). My take on that wreck was that the second van in the lost, off-route convoy was trying to keep the first van in sight, so she pulled out in front of a concrete truck.
Unfortunately, some of the ministers that contacted me about the program essentially said that if the volunteers knew of the risks and duties, they wouldn't volunteer.
If anyone here wants a copy of my notes from the presentation to use at your church/whatever, PM or email me, and I'll send them along (I think I can find them). I'll be gone for most of the next couple of weeks, and I'm up far beyond my eyebrows in a client emergency this weekend, so it may be a while.
Arthur
The weight the 45 ft buses carry on the front axle now is scary to me our 35 and 40 ft units are nothing compared to these
The newscast indicated that the bus was unlicensed. What effect will that have on any lawsuits?
Richard
On their web site the number 9 reason for choosing Angel Tours was Safety----Safety----Safety
Quote from: luvrbus on August 09, 2008, 04:59:35 PM
On their web site the number 9 reason for choosing Angel Tours was Safety----Safety----Safety
::)
At least they weren't lying, perhaps their slogan should have been:
"At Angel Tours your safety is job 9!"
(drawn of course from Ford's slogan in the 80's which was "At Ford, quality is job 1!")
DALLAS, Texas (CNN) -- Federal authorities have ordered a company tied to a Texas bus crash on Friday that killed 17 people to cease operation, saying they pose an "imminent hazard."
The orders --issued by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration -- apply to motor coach operations Angel Tours, Inc., and Iguana Busmex, Inc., and their chief, Angel De La Torre.
Authorities say De La Torre continue to run his unsafe fleet of buses under a new name, Iguana, after they ordered Angel Tours to cease operation in June.
"Angel Tours and Iguana currently operate vehicles in a mechanically unsafe operating condition which, if operated, would pose an imminent hazard to the public," the orders state.
CNN tried to reach Angel Tours, but its voicemail was full on Sunday and not accepting messages. An e-mail to De La Torre was not immediately answered.
The action follows Friday's bus crash, in which the driver of the bus apparently lost control on northbound U.S. 75 in northwest Texas, smashing into a guardrail before rolling on its side and sliding into a gully. The accident happened near the Texas-Oklahoma state line.Video Watch as the fire chief describes the crash scene »
Twelve people were declared dead at the scene, and five others died at hospitals, officials said. Police estimated that, in addition to the deaths, 33 to 39 of the 54 passengers and lone driver suffered mild to serious injuries. iReport.com: Were you there? Send photos, video
On Friday, NTSB member Debbie Hersman told reporters that the bus' right front tire had been retreaded, in violation of safety rules. The blown tire was discovered near the crash site. It was the only one of the tires that was recapped, and the only one whose tread separated, she said. Asked what caused the Goodyear tire to lose its air, she said, "We don't know the answer to that question; that's why we're here."Video Watch what investigators are learning about the accident »
The orders say that federal authorities served De La Torre with a similar order to cease operations on June 23 after Angel Tours received an "unsatisfactory" safety rating during a compliance review. The Motor Carrier Safety Administration denied his request for an upgraded safety rating after Angel Tours failed to provide evidence it had improved the safety conditions of its fleet.
For its part, Iguana "constitutes a mere continuity of Angel Tours' operations," the document say. De La Torre registered Iguana on June 27 -- just four days after Angel Tours was ordered to shut down.
According to the documents, the companies committed 17 safety violations, including:
-- Using regrooved, recapped or retreaded tires on the front steering axle of buses;
-- Operating buses that were not periodically inspected;
-- Using drivers before the company received results from pre-employment drug tests;
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-- Failing to investigate the driving records and backgrounds of drivers.
Before the companies can be considered for returning to operation, they would have to explain the reason for noncompliance and develop a detailed plan of action for remedying the list of violations.
I still say Angel De La Torre should be arrested and charged with 17 counts of 1st degree murder. Especially after reading that he simply formed a new company when the other one was ordered shut down. He will probably just go back to Mexico and nothing will ever be done to him. Jack
He probably is already in Mexico. What a rat he is. It is so sad that someone takes short cuts and the results are deadly. It will just make the honest operators look bad. The pain he has caused the families is unbelievable. :'(
Paul
Quote from: JackConrad on August 11, 2008, 04:57:56 AM
I still say Angel De La Torre should be arrested and charged with 17 counts of 1st degree murder. Especially after reading that he simply formed a new company when the other one was ordered shut down. He will probably just go back to Mexico and nothing will ever be done to him. Jack
Quote from: Dreamscape on August 11, 2008, 05:01:25 AM
He probably is already in Mexico. What a rat he is. It is so sad that someone takes short cuts and the results are deadly. It will just make the honest operators look bad. The pain he has caused the families is unbelievable. :'(
Paul
I agree he should be charged with each and every death! And also each injury as well! It's probably just as well I'm not a prosecutor in TX as I would have him & all his employees and associates in jail on 54 conspiracy to commit murder charges on top of the actual deaths!
It shows a blatant disrespect for life and law to run a recap on the steer axle! Not only is it illegal, but just plain ignorant! I won't even allow re-cap's on the tag's or drives of my buses ! (and I have some pretty nice ones lined up outside the shop "free to anyone who takes them" to prove it!). I have bought buses that had recaps on 'm and they are removed before the coach ever hits the road under our name! FWIW! ;D BK ;D
alright already is there something going on we don't know about.Here is yet another bus wreck,7pm pt ,a las vegas casino employee bus returning to las vegas from state line .The bus driver swerved for some undetermined reason hit the median and over turned in a ditch .some passengers were transported to UMC medical center treated and released.didn't catch if any one was criticaly hurt .The bus I believe was a MCI which was totaled,amazing that no one had died. posted speed is 70 mph which means the flow of traffic was traveling @80mph or85mph.thats it from fabulous LOST WAGES,NEVADA
VAN
Quote from: van on August 11, 2008, 07:00:03 AM
alright already is there something going on we don't know about.Here is yet another bus wreck,7pm pt ,a las vegas casino employee bus returning to las vegas from state line .The bus driver swerved for some undetermined reason hit the median and over turned in a ditch .some passengers were transported to UMC medical center treated and released.didn't catch if any one was criticaly hurt .The bus I believe was a MCI which was totaled,amazing that no one had died. posted speed is 70 mph which means the flow of traffic was traveling @80mph or85mph.thats it from fabulous LOST WAGES,NEVADA
VAN
VAN,
Unfortunately there is something going on! It's BAD NEWS SELLS & good news swells! Which is why the only news we get from the media stinks! It is very unfortunate that these accidents happen, but truth of the matter is there are many, many car accidents daily that hurt and kill people that don't make national headlines simply because they "aren't as dramatic as a whole bus load of injured people". Never mind that there are twice to three times as many people killed on the same day in car wrecks, it just doesn't make as good of headline!.
:'( BK :'(
Busted Knuckle....you are so right!
News media make their income via whatever gets customer attention. Bus accidents with fatality are far fewer than auto accidents, so we already are uses to that...very common as we already known. In other words, they don't have room for all the goods reports about buses moving mass of peoples to see the world or whatever.
However, all kinds of transportation's vehicle accidents can helps to limit the unnecessary cause of accident via screen out the bad careless owners and drivers via stronger enforcement of its laws.
Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
I would like to offer the tallest tree, a shortest rope and a largest public square in the state of Texas to handle this operator.
AJ
Quote from: AJ on August 11, 2008, 01:33:00 PM
I would like to offer the tallest tree, a shortest rope and a largest public square in the state of Texas to handle this operator.
AJ
I agree to that! This nation are too soft on criminal....so they will do it again until the old law is enforced the death system. Then you will see must more careful owners and drivers as well old law to enforce the immigrants to learn English and only speak English anyone in our nation soil with American citizenship paper.
If this bus owner and driver are American citizen and did ran back to foreign country, US will have search warrant to be arrested and put in trial. But so many illegal immigrants already here...we will be facing this kind of problem everyday.
FWIW
Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
THE PAPER SAID THEY WERE RUNING CAPS ON THE FRONT.