The old fuel mileage this has been beat to death but it's still an issues for me with the amount of miles I run. 25-30 K a year. You can check my schedule and see where I am know. www.beatenbo.com I am about 1/4 into a 4800 mile tour and we are doing our part to keep the oil companies in business. My question is... anybody out there running Cummings M11 in a MCI ?
My C3 has a 6V92T / 740 auto that gets 7 mpg on the flats with never worse than 6 running gen or bus air. Would the 4 stroke Cummings get 9-10 mpg. I just wonder If it would be worth selling buying another for the long run. Short term the loss in today's market would not off set the difference but at looking at 3-5 years. My like would be a F3500 MCI.
Beatenbo -
The F3500 MCI is only a 35-footer, so you'd be giving up quite a bit of interior room compared to your C3 - moreso with this model than a GM: it's T-drive configuration takes up more interior space than a V-drive. There were also very few of them imported/sold, so that creates a challenge. They are Torsilastic suspended, tho, like an Eagle, a real plus in many folk's eyes. Basically, they're an old Flxible VL-100 (IIRC) that was licensed and built by Dina in Mexico, then updated and imported back to the US when MCI was part of the Dina group. So, in some regards, they're sort of an orphan. . .
As to you other question, you'll have to crunch the numbers. Factory conversions with the Cummins M11 are just now starting to appear on the used coach market, and, with the market being incredibly soft, you might find yourself a real deal on one.
The problem, of course, would be selling your current coach. A couple of weeks ago I talked with a fellow who'd purchased a 1985 wide-body Prevost, converted new by Angola Coach with only 185K miles, for $75K, half of what the former owner was asking for it. So plan on, basically, taking a bath on the sale of your bus.
This brings up the question of re-powering. I believe, but am not sure, that the Cummins M11 was an option on late-production C3s. It may have started with the D models, you'll have to do the research. The M11 is somewhat longer than the 8V Detroits, and I know that MCI shortened the wheelbase on their 40-footers when they started offering the M11 and Series 60 engines in order for them to fit properly.
If the M11 will fit, my guess is that the powertrain swap will run you in the neighborhood of $15K or so. Fuel mileage will go up slightly, your guess is probably pretty close, maybe slightly high. Using 25K as your base annual mileage, you'd save about $5K/yr on fuel, so payback would be at the 3 year mark.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
I wouldn't re power hassle at any cost or savings. I would be able to get what I have in my coach or real close I think. I know the deal on the 35'. I have owned 10 buses and smaller would be welcome to me these days.They're ought to be a way to almost double fuel mileage. When a buck or so a gallon one thing but it chaps my wallet to spend 5 bucks to go 6 or 7 miles.If I had tons of money I'd rather put it to better use.
Be sure to run the math. Going from 7mpg to 10mpg would only save $1070/yr at 5000 miles per year or $2140 at 10000 miles per year at today's prices.
For those interested, here's the math:
5000 miles / 7 mpg = 714 gallons
714 gallons x $5/gal. = $3570 for fuel
5000 miles / 10mpg = 500 gallons
500 gallons x $5/gal. = $2500 for fuel
A savings of $1,070 per year.
Red,
There ya go agin. Cold hard logic supported by arithmatic. And a Marine you say? I guess it does make sense that you are Corp...on second thought.
Semper Fi,
John
Quote from: HighTechRedneck on July 09, 2008, 09:04:37 AM
Be sure to run the math. Going from 7mpg to 10mpg would only save $1070/yr at 5000 miles per year or $2140 at 10000 miles per year at today's prices.
For those interested, here's the math:
5000 miles / 7 mpg = 714 gallons
714 gallons x $5/gal. = $3570 for fuel
5000 miles / 10mpg = 500 gallons
500 gallons x $5/gal. = $2500 for fuel
A savings of $1,070 per year.
Keep going...
$1,070 per year at 5K miles.
Given the stated annual mileage of 25 - 30K as provided by beatenbo:
$1,070 x 5 = $5,350 savings per year.
Looks like the repower pays for itself in about 3 years (assuming the price of fuel does not exceed $5/gal., which is not a bet I would make.)
Beatenbo may actually be one of those rare busnuts for which a repower might actually pay for itself.
Question is do you repower or just buy another bus
Sorry, I missed the reference to that high mileage.
He has specified that he isn't interested in a repower, but would like a MCI F3500.
So, if you can make the swap for under $25K and are ok with the labor of doing another conversion, it looks like it will start saving money in about 5 years.
unfortunately there re not alot of F models on the market.
last one I saw that sold went for 90k and change and was fairly high mileage.
and it was a seated coach.
Brian D just repower his MCI9 with a M11 and a 10sp autoshift. I don't have his email addy but some on the board has it.
Ron
Four years ago I used 5,000 gal of fuel. My fuel cost was 6,000. That same 5,000 gal today @ 5.00 per gal is 25,000 per year fuel bill for 30K driving and gen running.10mpg should be 3,000 gal X5.00= 15,000 10K a year fuel savings.
The point I'm taking away from this discussion is that everybody has to do this with their own numbers. And that it is getting increasingly easy to justify a repower based on fuel savings. I don't think it works with my numbers yet but it is closer than it was two years ago which was the last time I thought seriously about it. So far I've done OK by wearing a lighter shoe on my right foot. It sounds like the next step for me would be to put in smaller injectors.
Bob I'm glad mine is a 6V instead of two more buckets to feed >:(. I am going to try the lighter foot, but seemms to drag you up the hills more when you don't keep it wound up.
Quote from: prevost82 on July 09, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
Brian D just repower his MCI9 with a M11 and a 10sp autoshift. I don't have his email addy but some on the board has it.
Ron
Here is my story .... http://home.earthlink.net/~diehls0792_1/BusSection10.html
I repowered with a Cummins ISM with the Eaton 10sp Autoshift. It was a heck of a job! My pay back period is around 4-5 years depending upon continueing to run 8000 miles per year.
-Brian
If you want maximum fuel economy, the Cummins ISM with either the 10 spd Autoshift (with clutch pedal) or the 10 or 13 spd Ultrashift (without clutch pedal) will give you the best chance at great fuel economy. Properly driven, 10mpg is not out of sight. Good Luck, TomC