My Bus is wired for 50 amp, I had it plugged in with a 50 – 30 dogbone with a 30-15 adapter (got that see pictures).
Well I washed the bus, and standing barefoot in the water touching the stainless or lugnuts I got a shock?
So I re plugged with the 50-30 dogbone to a 30-amp outlet and no more shock.
Well I had to keep trying right, 50-30-30 wishbone with 2, 30-15 adapters no shock.
Ok the 50-30-30 wishbone with 2, 30amp lines for 60amp (more power right?).
Wrong tripped both 30 amp breakers, shut down my inverter display panel.
I know what happened but I thought I would throw this out there for your morning read and to see the different answers.
:o
Ed, other than to advise you to NEVER wash a vehicle which is plugged into AC in your bare feet...but then you already discovered that it's not a good idea.
My view, and it may be disputed by others with more and better credentials than I, is that a voltage (whether AC or DC) is always seeking to complete the circuit so it is seeking ground. In the case of DC that ground would be a negative source. In the case of AC, of which we're talking here, it is less selective as to that source of ground or neutral. Now there is a difference.
Neutral is the completion of the circuit as far as the load is concerned. But AC is Alternating Current...and it has a direction of flow. We think of Positive, Load and Neutral in an AC circuit and sometimes forget that half of the time the 'positive is neutral' and vice versa. But as to the direction of flow we wire the circuit from source to the breaker, to the load and to Neutral so both the wiring and the load are protected.
Neutral is common with earth ground only insofar as it goes back to the powerhouse to seek that earth ground.
That could be many miles and voltage takes the path of least resistance which in this case might have been you.
To reasonably insure ourselves a measure of safety we add an Earth Ground (or equipment ground) to a circuit to shorten that path of resistance to ground.
My guess in your instance was that you (your bare feet) standing in water (one of the best conductors known) were if fact that path of least resistance and you got bit. Too, there might be a problem with the earth ground (the 4th pin in the plug) making a complete enough contact. And here's where the conjecture comes in.
It is doubtful that you can duplicate exactly the conditions prevalent at the moment of your contact (or that you'd care to) to trace exactly what caused you to get shocked. All you can do is to take whatever steps are necessary to insure that your wiring is to Code...even then there are no guarantees if you run around barefoot in puddles!
You have my empathy for your experience but as my Dad used to say, "Use it as a learning experience and be smarter for it."
Hope this helps.
Bob
The simple answer is that if you got a shock, you had a less than ideal ground. However, that also means that there is an electrical "leak" to the coach body somewhere which shouldn't be there. Perhaps a neutral to ground connection that should not be there. Perhaps the inverter bonding relay is not working as it should or the transfer switch is not working right. It would seem that your 15 amp adapters were no providing a good ground.
If everything were perfect, you would not get a shock even without any ground. It is there to protect against a fault.
The two 30 amp breakers tripping must mean that you were effectively connected to 220 and the two legs were tied together somewhere downstream.
Len
Quote from: Ednj on June 11, 2008, 04:24:15 AM
My Bus is wired for 50 amp, I had it plugged in with a 50 – 30 dogbone with a 30-15 adapter (got that see pictures).
Well I washed the bus, and standing barefoot in the water touching the stainless or lugnuts I got a shock?
So I re plugged with the 50-30 dogbone to a 30-amp outlet and no more shock.
15 amp outlet had ground and neutral reversed?
Quote from: Ednj on June 11, 2008, 04:24:15 AM
Ok the 50-30-30 wishbone with 2, 30amp lines for 60amp (more power right?).
Wrong tripped both 30 amp breakers, shut down my inverter display panel.
30 amp outlets were on opposite phases?
I believe in simplicity. While I have a 50 amp shore plug, I only use one side of it since the bus is wired for straight 120vac. While this limits my shore power to 6,000 watts, I can still run two A/C's with power left over to use the water heaters. I really like the fact that I'm not constantly worried about balancing the loads out when the generator is running. Just something to consider-I will wire my next conversion the same. Good Luck, TomC
I'll take a shot at it - one of your 30 amp outlets has the hot and neutral reversed, as does the 15 amp outlet you were using while washing. Or you had a 15 amp extension cord with the hot and neutral crossed while washing.
Can't stump any of you.
Guy's,
Remember, with an uneven load on both legs of 50A, the nutral carries the current......
Never wash your bus with it pluged it!
Nick-
Ed,
Here are some more amps if you need more power.. ;D
Nick-
Quote from: Nick Badame Refrig. Co. on June 11, 2008, 08:39:32 AM
Ed,
Here are some more amps if you need more power.. ;D
Nick-
Cool Nick, now Daniel wants to come over with his guitar.
While we're at it,
I have my house battery bank and the start battery bank tied together with an auto solenoid.
Works great.
The inverter charges the start batteries when plugged in & the alternator charges the house bank when driving.
When I drive the bus with the generator running the dash amp meter jumps (like flashers)'
Is it because the generator is putting out more than the alternator?
???
ROCK AND ROLL!!!!!!!!
Damn... Nick must look like a one-man band trying to play all those guitars and stomp all those tiny pedals. ;D
I have 1K watts in my little GK bass system we can throw in...
Quote from: Ednj on June 11, 2008, 09:47:15 AM
The inverter charges the start batteries when plugged in & the alternator charges the house bank when driving.
When I drive the bus with the generator running the dash amp meter jumps (like flashers)’
Is it because the generator is putting out more than the alternator?
???
Could it have some thing to do with them both trying to charge the same abtteries and the regulators not ikeing what the other one is doing?
Some cool looking old amps!! TomC
Guess it's my turn again, Ed. Not knowing if your generator has a belt driven alternator or uses a charge winding in the generator end I really can't totally answer that aspect of your query.
As far as the Inverter is concerned when it sees 120VAC it is only trying to do its' job and that is to charge your lighting batteries. It doesn't know about another charging source or, from the info given, does it care.
Pretty much the same for the generator although if the gen/set charges from a battery charge winding it should be the weaker of the two and, not having a voltage regulator as an alternator would, should acquiesce to the greater charge rate.
A solution? The reason your ammeter (or voltmeter) is dancing around is because it has too many masters....
conflicting charge rates. You might consider switching the field circuit on your belt driven generator alternator which would take that charge source out of the equation when you need it to be so.
If I might add any further confusion to an otherwise interesting topic please let me know.
WTIC (with tongue in cheek)
Bob
Quote from: NCbob on June 11, 2008, 02:29:47 PM
Guess it's my turn again, Ed. Not knowing if your generator has a belt driven alternator or uses a charge winding in the generator end I really can't totally answer that aspect of your query.
If I might add any further confusion to an otherwise interesting topic please let me know.
WTIC (with tongue in cheek)
Bob
Thanks Bob,
I might just make 500 posts today.
I have a Magnum 4024 inverter, a Onan 7500 quiet diesel generator and NON belt alternator on bus engine.
I think I can shut off the charger at the inverter control panel in the future. :o