While I live close to Mexico, I have never been willing to drive there just to fill up. But now I'm reconsidering with the high costs.
As I understand it, their diesel is about 2/3 the cost of ours, presumably because its not Ultra Low sulfur.
Does anyone have any experiences, suggestions, locations where a bus can fit - about going accross to fill up?
I don't know where you live but I like to visit Mexico and I cross at lukeville AZ and about two miles in is a pemex station that handles the big rigs and I fill up there as I leave.
The only glitch is you need mexico insurance to drive there and it cost about 26 dollars to issue the policy and then is about 10 dollars a day so for one day you have to pay the issue fee and then the insurance.
The fuel is less then 2.50 a gallon -- actually it is less than .60 a liter and I will let you do the math.
I always carry lots of ones because any change you get will be in pesos and they will tell you how many dollars they need and they pump the fuel and I usually give them a tip.
Hope this helps.
Melbo
I live in the san diego area, but sometimes go over to Yuma.
Jim, it is about impossible to get a bus into the Pemex in Algodones at Yuma better try some place else.I am getting ready to go to Texas and will cross over at El Paso to buy fuel .Jim the easy way to buy the fuel if you have a pickup buy or borrow one of the 110 gals tanks that you see in pickups drive the truck over and fill it up. I bought a 1000gal tank from one of my neighbors and just about have it full, when I go to the dentist I bring back a 100gals and put it in the tank and when my neighbors go they bring me back a 100gals working good so far and I don't worry about having my bus over there on the narrow streets and crazy horn blowing Mexican drivers.I don't buy the insurance but not a bad idea it just never crossed my mind going in and out in a couple of hours.another plus is the pickup gets 17 mpg and the bus get 7.5
Read Seans blogs on the subject. Good Luck, TomC
Now I'm curious. If we can go to Mexico to fill up, does that mean Canadians can come here (USA) to do the same thing? And....just what are diesel prices up in Canada anyway? Less? More?
Already we are filling up our vehicles this week, because next week the prices of gas and diesel are sure to go up....again. Finally, will high sulfer Mexican diesel play havoc with brand new rigs? Dunno. :) :) :)
HB, the 500 ppm sold at most pemex stations is not going to hurt any engine made before 2007 and most pemex station also sell the 15 ppm for the new engines this one reason fuel cost so much here in the states we are exporting most of our ULSD 15 ppm to Mexico till their refineries are upgraded to make the ULSD which won't happen till 2010 FWIW
HB ... Canadains living close to the border have been fueling up in the US for a long time. Diesel is between $5.00 & 6.00 per US gal. Mexico is around $2.00 a US gal.
Ron
Jim,
I can't speak specifically to Tijuana, as we try to avoid it. However, there are several Baja-centric web sites that might help.
The price difference has nothing to do with sulfur content, but rather that Pemex is state-owned and Mexico is currently subsidizing its diesel prices. We paid $2.11 per gallon about a month ago.
Not all Pemex stations have diesel, but when they do, they usually have a separate island with truck-size stalls and a taller canopy. The two grades of gasoline have red and green signs for prices and on the pumps, while diesel uses a black sign. Find a station with a black "diesel" sign. Pricing is per liter -- the above price translates to ~5.7 pesos per liter.
Not sure where Melbo gets his insurance, but there is no need to buy it by the day. We paid about $80 for a policy good for a full year and all vehicles. Bear in mind that this is liability only -- you should check your regular policy to make sure it covers comp and collision in Mexico.
You don't need to worry about vehicle import permits for Baja or for any border city, and you won't need an FMT (tourist card) for any visit less than 72 hours. Make sure you have a US passport with you to come back the other way, and there is a list of prohibited items that you'll want to check (eggs, lunch meat, certain fruits, etc.).
FWIW, if we were within a hundred miles of the Mexican border, we wouldn't even think of buying diesel anywhere else.
I suggest you figure out exactly how much fuel you need, convert to Pesos, and exchange that many Pesos at a bank before fueling up -- you will get a better rate than at the Pemex. Remember to keep about 20 pesos (~$2) to tip the attendant, and however many pesos you might need to return to the US (probably none in Tijuana, but all the Rio Grande bridges are toll).
Lock your fuel door. When pulling up to the pump, be ready with your money, and carefully watch the attendant as he zeros the dispenser and pumps your fuel. The single biggest fuel scam trick in Mexico is starting the dispenser from a non-zero number and then charging you for the total amount on the meter.
If you go to my blog and search on "Pemex" you can read about our experiences there -- all good.
HTH,
-Sean
LUVR.... ...might want to re-think the El Paso crossing.... I live in the very close area ( Las Cruces) and would not even consider it....and apparently that is the way the "trolley" company feels about it. They have quit crossing over. Our church had a missionary trip there last week and came home after a couple of days. Drug Cartel wars with the Federales........
FWIW
RCB
I just filled up outside Nogales which is right by Tucson, for $1.87. I was driving my truck so I wasnt able to get a whole bunch which was disappointing.
Sean, thanks for the good tips. I will probably reconoiter in my diesel pickup before taking the bus.
Can you use plastic at the Mexican stations to avoid exchanging money? Would the attendant not want US dollars for a tip? Very ignorant about Mexico here.
Don 4107
If I wanted to have a diesel storage tank, does it have to be something special or can I use a large water tank? What are the customs limitations on bringing fuel back? Must it be in a tank connected to the vehicle fuel system or can you put a big independent tank in a pickup bed? Has anyone used the crossing at Mexicali? Man, I have so many questions, I must be a pretty questionable person!
Lin,you can bring anything back with no fees up to $300.00 for each person and I don't know about your water tank but if it a 1/8 or better I would test it at #2 of air pressure if it holds probably will work.I take my pump off the tank before entering I don't know if that would be a problem or not but I have not had any trouble yet.EPA requires you to have plastic under the tank and a berm around it to hold any fuel that is lost and a fire extinguisher plus a ground rod.My tank is not connect to my system we remove it when my neighbors bring fuel back for me and they want cash where I go no plastic
Quote from: Don4107 on May 30, 2008, 10:11:54 AM
Can you use plastic at the Mexican stations to avoid exchanging money? Would the attendant not want US dollars for a tip? Very ignorant about Mexico here.
Most Pemex stations do not accept credit cards. If you find one that does, you'll need to first make sure your card issuer knows you will be in Mexico -- sometimes they stop the transaction for fraud prevention otherwise. Also, most cards charge a fee on transactions in a foreign currency, so know before you start what you will be charged. Lastly, some transaction processors have an upper limit on how much can go on one slip. Once, we put over 3,000 pesos in, and the card kept coming back "declined" until the attendant figured this out. Once he broke the transaction up into two parts of less than 2,000 pesos each, it went through fine.
If the station accepts US dollars (as many border stations do), then you're OK to tip in dollars, too. I suspect they'd rather get US$2 than MX$20 right now, anyway. Further in, though, you should use pesos, as the hassle factor for them to have to change a small number of dollars is probably high for the attendants.
Quote from: Lin on May 30, 2008, 10:22:19 AM
If I wanted to have a diesel storage tank, does it have to be something special or can I use a large water tank?
I can't speak to Mexican law. Here in the US, fuel must be carried in a DOT-approved container. Water tanks are not permitted.
Quote
What are the customs limitations on bringing fuel back? Must it be in a tank connected to the vehicle fuel system or can you put a big independent tank in a pickup bed?
They will not question anything in your vehicle fuel tank. If you have jerry cans or other tanks not built in to the vehicle for motor vehicle fuel, you must declare it. It is then subject to the $800 personal exemption.
Quote
Has anyone used the crossing at Mexicali?
Yes. Search on that term in my blog.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
I have never paid for fuel in Mexico with anything other than folding money but I got called on the carpet on RV.NET for saying that you have to use cash. According to the experts over there you can pay with plastic if you go inside. I have never tried that but that is what I was told. I usually go to the bank and get a wad of $1 bills for tipping before we leave the US. In every place we have travelled, no matter how remote, the US and Mexican currency could be used interchangeably although I think you get better pricing in the small markets if you pay in the local currency.
Lin, you are talking about using the water tank for storage not for transporting the fuel is this correct.the 110 gal tanks that are used in the pickups are DOT approved for fuel transporting mine is made by weatherguard the tool box manufacture but are made by several other manufactures.The proper name for the tank is a transfer tank fwiw
Yes, I was only talking about the possibility of using a large water tank for storage at home since I saw one for sale cheap. I am still in the scheming stage on everything. We are about 2 hours from Mexicali. I have friends down by El Centro and Yuma, so taking a ride down there is not a waste. After the summer, we will probably be down there monthly. Right now, I do not even have a truck, but have been thinking of getting one since it will be useful where we are now. I am not anxious to get a vehicle that gets worse mileage then the sedans we have not, but if I can be stocking fuel, it would be more practical.
Lin,
Had a tank cleaned by the pros only a day ago. They first cleaned the inside with lye to get all the oil out. The rust they got out by submerging the thing in 'phosphoric acid". They soaked it in hot acid for a day but mine was the worst he had ever seen. If you "need" to get the rust out you could fill the tank with phos. acid diluted in water (%=?) with the more the better. Letting it sit might be equal to a higher concentration for a shorter time period. They charge by the gallon capacity and mine was a 45 gallon tank and I paid $100. It is pretty and clean now but I have a lot of holes to patch.
A little rust isn't a problem unless you draw fuel really fast and you are on the bottom. My fuel filter didn't plug because the pickup was a half inch off of the bottom, tank is heavily baffled and the engine draws so little fuel that the flow isn't enuf to keep the rust from settling back to the tank. Different story now though.
Fill your tank with air(1 PPSI) and spray it down with a soap dilution and look for bubbles. Garden sprayer?
Good luck with your tank.
John
Just wanted to mention another downside to using water tanks for diesel fuel storage. Diesel fuel will dissolve the galvanize used in many water tanks and the zinc will or can plate out on the surfaces of injector and fuel components and cause serious failure. Another of My 2 cents worth. John
Quote from: junkman42 on June 02, 2008, 06:32:29 AM
Just wanted to mention another downside to using water tanks for diesel fuel storage. Diesel fuel will dissolve the galvanize used in many water tanks and the zinc will or can plate out on the surfaces of injector and fuel components and cause serious failure. Another of My 2 cents worth. John
I have to agree here.. don't use a galvanized tank. I had an argument with Fast Fred at one time about it on another board...He was right as usual... I lost a set of injectors in a 4-53 series engine... the problem according to the guys that redid my injectors, again, was that my tank was made from galvanized steel. The galvanizing process was chemically reacted on by the fuel and caused the tolerances on the injectors to tighten up. The ones that didn't seize were ruined by galling. So after having the injectors rebuilt once, (about $58/ea.), I had to have them done again... this time at $85/ea.
I've done Detroits for years and years, and had never run into that problem before. The short of the story... listen to the sailors.. they know about these things!
Dallas
That's the important information I was looking for. It is so easy to just assume something like "a steel tank is a steel tank," but a small unconsidered issue, like galvanizing your injectors, is the type of warning where these boards really score. Thanks,
I am now looking to bus a truck and in auxiliary tank.
Lin,
Don't throw that tank away just yet. If you fill it with a diluted solution of phosphoric acid and water you will disolve away the galvanized and end up with a clean iron phosphate coated tank. This is what they did to my fuel tank except they dipped it in a heated tank. I don't know the dilution ratio. I will call them tomorrow for you. Maybe someone else knows as well.
I might also suggest that you clean out all the hard water deposits that may have accumulated in the tank. The product CLR is great for that and it's active ingredients should be the answer. Washing soda works great in cooling systems but I think the heat of the engine is important to get the chem reaction.
I sure wouldn't mix any products in the tank.
Info like Dallas shared was a real gem. Who knew? Fast Phred....evidently!
John
I did not buy the tank. It was offered but I wanted to check here first.
Lin,
I talked with the owner of "Metal Works" in Eugene. His shop "dips" entire autobodies for restoration as his primary work. He dip truck and auto tanks as well. He said that phosphoric acid in a concentration of 5% would dissolve away the galvanized coating inside a tank if left to work for two or more days. The real test would be to test the fuel you stored in the tank for heavy metals. That fuel test isn't expensive. If they are present that diesel could be sold as Home Heating Oil.
Getting iffy, huh?
John
Used fuel tanks are not so hard to find that it would warrant the work and risk of trying the water tank. I would assume that truck or motorhome junk yards would have a good supply of tanks.
Again, I dont know Much..
But ive knowen folks that went to Mexico in San Diego to get Gas/Fuel.. it is BAD BAD Bad gunk at best..Gas Pings like heck and Diesel is stinky & very Oily ??? ??? ???..
A lot of Mexico's gas is refined in the US. And there diesel is great (LSD) you get way more power out of it and better milage. My bus just loved it.
Ron
We can't refine enough fuel for us, so have to import, but yet we export?????????????
NO UNDERSTAND
Ray D
I still want to go and get some. I have not been to Mexico in years, and am a little aprehensive about driving the bus there. Last time I was there was in my 4 door long bed pickup, and the roads and traffic were a bit of a challenge. Add to that trying to figure out where I'm going is not something I want to do. I may try to drive the pickup down there, but I was hoping that someone here knows of a specific place to cross and go get the fuel thats managable in the bus.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We can't refine enough fuel for us, so have to import, but yet we export?
NO UNDERSTAND
Ray D
It is all a paper farce. We sell the oil we produce on the international market for the going price and then we buy oil at the international price and keep the oil here. Otherwise, we, consumers and tax payers, would be asking the oil company's why they can't sell diesel here for 11 cents a gallon like they do with their oil in Venezuela. Our guys have the paper work to prove they spent $120 a barrel so they have to charge $4.50 a gallon for diesel to make a profit. Actually they swap it with a foreign registered wholly owned subsidiary. See, and you didn't think it all made sense. It only costs a buck or two to get the oil out of the ground and refining isn't all that expensive. Now aren't you all hot to get them permission to drill in ANWAR?
HTH
I just returned from Hermosillo Mexico last Christmas and entered/exited in Nogales. You can travel with your coach across the border on any highway and find Pemex, which has national pricing, so you don't have to find the lowest prices. Many of them out of the inner city are on large pieces of property so the trucks can refuel. And the nice thing.... it is full service!!! You don't even have to get your hands dirty and they will provide you with a receipt (if you ask) that you can fill out yourself if you need to claim it on your taxes.
Don't quote me on this but I don't see why you would even have to do the temporary import papers if you crossed at Nogales. You cross in town and the Pemex is before you get to Km 22 (where you do the import papers). So you could cross, fuel up and return to the US without ever having to go past the import checkpoint.
Like I said, don't quote me on it. I just play an expert on the internet - in real life I'm even more of a fool.
Your correct Bob, you don't have to do any import documentation, you don't even have to buy insurance (Progressive Insurance allows 50 miles over the Mexican border), you can just cross, fill up, and cross back over. You just have to be concerned with the American side of customs wanting to inspect you for drugs or whatever.
Ah Ha! That explains it Ben!
A vette, a custom Torino, about 9 bikes, huge home and a very nice coach!
LOL
Just kidding! :)
BS
Quote from: BEN MC7 on June 10, 2008, 06:23:08 AM
... you don't even have to buy insurance (Progressive Insurance allows 50 miles over the Mexican border), ...
This is incorrect, and bad advice.
While your US-based insurance carrier
may provide
some coverage in Mexico, it is limited to comprehensive and collision. It is
NOT accepted by Mexican authorities as evidence of
liability coverage.
You
MUST have insurance underwritten by a
Mexican company while driving in Mexico -- even within the "free trade" border zone. Otherwise, if you get in any kind of accident, even a slight fender bender, your vehicle
will be impounded, and you
may be arrested until you post a substantial bond.
BTW, our policy from National Interstate (sold through AON) covers us everywhere in Mexico. But again, not liability -- for that we have "named driver" policies that we purchased through Vagabundos del Mar.
If you are only going to cross over for one day, insurance is sold at various outlets right at the border crossing for a daily rate. But our annual policy cost only $80, and we can cross as many times as we like and drive whatever vehicles we bring.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Lets just say that everyone has their own opinion of what is necessary during their travels and their own personal experiences.
I am only stating what I have done during my visits to Mexico, which is typically 2x a year to visit my wifes family in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico. I am going beyond the 50 miles that Progressive Insurance allows me to get to Hermosillo, and I buy only liability insurance when I am there (Progressive Insurance has forwarded documentation to me with the requirements for their coverage). I recommend following whatever your RV insurance carrier has in their policy for coverage and make sure you read their exclusions. As an insurance adjuster myself, I cannot stress that enough. However, that being said, I will cross the border for fuel if I need to and will not buy the liability coverage offered in Mexico because I have already confirmed coverage with my carrier in writing.
Please follow instructions given by your carrier to assure coverage for your coach in Mexico or anywhere outside of the US. Any advice given here should only be a guide and not the gospel, as the border and laws associated with crossing our borders change and motor vehicle policies are supplemented regularly.
Ben, discussing the laws of a sovereign nation and suggesting that they are "a matter of opinion" is dangerous.
The law is explicit and can easily be looked up (providing you can read Spanish).
It doesn't matter what your US carrier has told you they will or will not cover -- if you can not produce documentation in Spanish from a Mexican liability carrier (or post appropriate bond), if you have an accident you can be arrested and your vehicle impounded until the matter is sorted out. Even when you have such documentation, it is not uncommon for you to have to accompany the police to the station and/or impound until the authorities have spoken with the underwriter and made certain that the coverage is sufficient for the circumstances. We personally know RVers who have spent the night in the impound lot -- and that's with Mexican insurance.
Having simply been told on the phone that you are covered is not sufficient -- you must have the Spanish-language documentation with you.
Now it's possible that Progressive has a relationship with a Mexican company and/or has a Mexican subsidiary that covers you when you are south of the border. But we have Progressive policies on our motorcycles and, while our comp and collision is in force there, Progressive has explicitly disclaimed any responsibility for liability in Mexico. (Progressive won't write coverage on our bus.)
For those new to this process, I can recommend contacting the Mexican embassy or consulate closest to you to get the facts about the legal requirements for driving in Mexico. Mexican law functions very differently from US law; we are used to "innocent until proven guilty," whereas it is closer to the other way around there, and we are used to protections against unlawful search and seizure which don't exist in Mexico.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
I'm no insurance expert & I don't even play one on the internet but I do know that there is a big difference in coverage once you cross the Rio Grande. My understanding - and that's all it is - my understanding is that a typical Mexican insurance policy for gringos consists of up to 5 components. You can buy any or all of the components depending on your risk tolerance. I probably won't be able to name all the components but I will made a stab at it.
There's what I call "loss" coverage - theft, fire, damage, whatever causes you a loss of the asset
There's public liability
There's a component that I could best describe as an appearance bond. In the event you are in an accident this is the surety that you will appear to face the music. And I believe it is this component that Sean is referring to, which is unique to Mexico, and which is not typically available from a US-based carrier. This is the area that us gringos have difficulty understanding because the Mexicans have a simple means to insure that you show up for court - they impound your vehicle and throw your @$# in jail.
There's legal coverage or representation
And I don't remember what the 5th component is but I think I did pretty good to come up with 4. :)
Lin,
About that tank: I needed a tank of exact dimensions to "fit". :P The "water tank" :-X I had made was, in reality, a steel gas tank in every regard except for the name on the receipt. 8) I didn't scrimp on the thing and it was built by pros. ;) I was located in a small Or. coastal community at the time and didn't have access to a "truck" wrecking yard and if I did I really doubt I could have stumbled onto the dimensions I needed. :'( The thing had to fit between the frame rail and the coach body and bee no deeper than.....you understand.
I am not claiming any high ground here. I will kluge stuff together with the rest of the Rube Goldbergs but I am as straight as I can be when I can be and my stuff is most often hXll for stout. ::)
Doing it over at this location I would certainly meander through the local truck grave yard out on Rt 99. I seriously doubt they would have what I wanted back then but I would go through the drill just to use something "used" for the planet.....not for any safty issue as there was none.
Thanks for your comment. I must have needed to clear it up to more than just you. ;D ;D ;D ;D(for Paul)
John
This is still in the planing stages for me. A local guy said he had a large tank that was originally for water but had been used for diesel for many years. If he would be less flakey, I would look at it and would consider using it as is. I figure that if it's been used for diesel for five or so years, it should be clean by now. Maybe a dumb assumption. I do not want to bring the bus to Mexico, so I would be looking to equip a pickup with extra tanks when I find what one can bring back without problems. I have found that a Mexican driver's license insurance policy is less than $100/year and would serve my purposes. The other thing I have been trying to find out is which crossing would be the least hassle. Mexicali is about 3 hours and Algodones is an extra half hour. I was guessing that it might still be better to go to Algodones if the wait to cross is less either way. I remember Mexicali as being pretty busy.
When we were in Los Algadones and looked at the fueling stop, the diesel nozzles were all marked out of service. When I asked about fuel, I was told to go to San Lius for fuel.
This has been some time ago, so you should check before you go, if you can.
Tom Caffrey
FWIW.....I have a couple of cousins in Benson, AZ that have been driving to Aqua Prieta, across from Douglas, AZ to fill a two hundred gallon tank with diesel. They have many pieces of equipment that are diesel. Found out a couple of days ago that " it is not worth the drive, expense and effort to do it any longer".
We go to Palomas frequently from Las Cruces...100 miles one way. Would not take the coach there. Period.
Again, FWIW
RCB