Hi;I have a friend who says he puts his drain oil back into the fuel tank and burns it.Says it runs fine no problems yet!Says he knows others that do this with there diesel P/Us etc too?Scares me but maybe OK?
can do it but far from OK... all sorts of things in oil besides oil once you have used it in a crank case.
There are a lot of threads on here about burning used motor oil and even though there is a lot of disagreement on the subject, one thing that is agreed upon is the filtering. Check out the green bus thread. Lots of discussion still going on about centrifuging and filtering. Personally, I'll stick to good old number two until I see proof otherwise. ;D
After reading the post on this topic the last time I read the DD manual and they do not recommend it fwiw
If you live in California, it is forbidden because of the extra smoke it creates. On mechanically injected 2 strokers, it is fine to do though. I wouldn't do it with an electronically controlled engine since the injectors are typically much tighter in clearances, and the oil is thicker. Good Luck, TomC
Guys,
I tried to get a response for this on the green......nada. I guess it was DD as Tom confirms the statement in the manual that adding motor oil is OK with DD. I don't think DD was ever talking about "WASTE" motor oil(WMO). However, I am. It's addition to the fuel reduces power and MPG but not by the 10% that you can mix it in so there is a payback for using this "free fuel". 10% oil added to your DinoD and you might suffer a 2% overall reduction and I am GUESSING.
I had the same concern that California has, apparently. I can get the water and carbon and other junk out with my centrifugal filter. It is the chemical contaminents that give me pause. How can I make sure that they aren't hurting the engine OR spitting bad stuff into the atmosphere. They used to sell "reclaimed" WMO...do they still? I should think that burning this stuff would be a good thing AND a $ thing.
I sure would like to do this. Truck service stations routinely dump hundreds of gallons of drained oil into their Dino tanks. The agrument is that 200 gal of waste into 10,000 gal tank is not going to register. Of course, they are getting $4.50 for that waste and they aren't paying to have hazardious waste hauled at many $ per gallon. This is a tangled web.
How do I neutralize the contaminants? Anybody? Tom?
John
Quote from: JohnEd on May 10, 2008, 11:53:49 PM
Truck service stations routinely dump hundreds of gallons of drained oil into their Dino tanks. The agrument is that 200 gal of waste into 10,000 gal tank is not going to register. Of course, they are getting $4.50 for that waste and they aren't paying to have hazardious waste hauled at many $ per gallon.
John
you ought to turn these people in....1st it is fraud on a huge level, is illegal as far as a number of differet laws.
I really don't beleive alot of places are doing this....around me shops use used oil as shop heating oil in the winter.....or get paid for it....yep the use the stuff for other things.
I would never consider putting 10% WMO in my fuel tank
I thought we were talking about used oil, under fuel additives in my manual in sec 13.3 page 7 DD statement is good enough for me and that is " NOT recommended "and that is from a mechanical injected engine manual
JohnEd, I own a gas station, and I have never, and never would dump any amount of used oil or anything in the diesel tank. I don't know of any gas station that has ever done that. (Although they wouln't tell me). If caught, the repercussions would be huge. We are far better off selling good quality diesel than dilute it with used oil. I don't think you should make such statements based on hear-say.
JC
The best use for old drain oil that I have found is using it to burn brush. Very volatile after spending some time in the crankcase.
Just do the numbers. My bus holds 7 gallons of oil. I get 7 miles per Gallon. For the possibility of doing damage to my engine since Detroit has always been against it I might drive 50 miles +/_. With Diesel fuel at $4.25 per gallon I've saved $29.75 with the potential of costing much, much more in repairs.
But do it your way......
NCbob
Best guess here is that burning the drain oil is not that good of idea. Sure, you can dispose of it this way, but after going thru the necessary filturing and stuff, the question is "why"? After adding 10% of it to your fuel you will probably experience a loss of power and probably (not always) have more smoke. Yeah, for bus conversions, use only in the earlier 2-stroke Detroits and 743/855 Cummins.
However....using drain oil as a fuel/heat source in a dedicated space heater designed for such is actually a very good idea. We have several shops/buildings up here heated only by waste drain oil. Seems all the oil changes at the local mechanic's shop is enough to heat the place to a pleasant degree. The only expense is running the rather large fans, fuel injector pump and fuel preheaters.
Soossss..it kinda begs the question of why one would want to utilitize you expensive diesel engine as a waste oil incinerator? (sp?) If you had no other way to get rid of the stuff, then maybe one could justify buring it along with your very expensive diesel fuel. Kinda like all the current hype using vegetable oil in various forms as a motor fuel. So far, not soosss good. Thanks. :) :) :)
oil is not hard to get rid of if that is the issue, alot of municipalities have waste oil tanks, Alot of true Value Hardwars, Pep Boys will take it, I am sure there are scores of businesses around anyone who will accept clean waste motor oil with a big grin.
I burned waste oil in a waste oil furnace and saved about $1,000. per month in the colder weather. An oil pump to pressurize the oil and a typical gas furnace 15 inch fan to distribute the heat, so the overhead was very low.
The legalities are something else. In the State of WV, at least, you must be generating your own waste oil and you can not legally transport it.
I did generate some of my own, but I did move some from a couple of other facilities like the school bus garage. I later found out about the no transport and the fine if they catch you is $10,000. I sold my business and another garage bought the waste oil furnace.
Richard
Lostagain,
I didn't impugn your reputation in the least and I wouldn't think of doing so...really. ??? Usually it is lawyers that are so very sensitive as to think all crit is directed towards them :( You Canada people are, in my experience, way ahead of anything going on in the states...be it innovation or regulation. You have my respect and admiration, as a breed :)
I can repeat any sorry butt story i wish and so can you ;D There is not legal requirement for validity or accuracy or we would all be quite close mouthed. I have no evil intension and never have had and especially with the likes of you. You certainly have made a positive contribution to my life as a Bus Knut and i do appreciate that. :) How can you possibly think that somebody in the OIL BUSINESS doing anything unscrupulous is beyond the pale of possibility? Please answer me on that. :o EXON VALDEZ comes directly to mind. I have a friend that owns an ARCO station on I5 and he just chuckled at that story. He added that I would be dumbfounded at some of things he had heard of stations doing to screw John Q Public. I never for an instant thought his comment was a confession...he is a really good guy and works his butt off and has never made the money people think he does just because he is in the oil bus.
I once heard a newspaper cartoonist being interviewed on TV over being sued by Jane Fonda for defamation of character. He said "I wrote and drew about some half whitted loosly moraled errant actress and I have no idea why Ms. Fonda would think I was describing her". I am in no way associating your response with that interview comment but I thought it was funny and I am sure I don't have to be all that careful as we are among intelligent and tolerant friends here, right? God knows we have a sense of humor. Just read some of Chazwoods mail for an uplifting experience.
Lost, I still love ya and the likes of ya. Please don't think me something I am not :'( ::) ;D
John
Now this is what I am talking about. ;D Really smart and experienced people telling me straight up "don't go there, John" and maybe saving me a bundle. Who knows how many others were considering this in some small way. Thank you all.
In another lifetime i worked part time in a gas station to give the kids something extra. One dark night shortly before closing a semi pulled in. He was a young guy and maybe he was a little too slick but he had gotten off the highway and was looking in a town so small it had not a single traffic light and was shorter than a football field. He needed fuel and we didn't sell diesel and we were the only station for 25 miles. He begged me to sell him 50 gallons of kerosene and it was midnight Sunday. He said he would have to drive 50 miles west to get fuel in order to drive 100 miles east. Well, I bit. Never considered the fuel tax angle, and i sold him the kerosene. He also bought 5 quarts of 30 weight and added that to the tank as he filled. Said he was making diesel #2...or was it #1? I learned the next day that he was correct in his chemistry and ratios. From this experience when I was 22 and from many other tid bits of data since, I have concluded that diesel and motor oil are, in fact, related. That wasn't a defense of drain oil, only a defense of why something so dumb sounding made enough sense for me to pose the question.
Following the logic of my past experience I wondered if that drain oil might not be made clean enough to use it in the engine. I understand that the answer is "not only no, but HEXL NO!". So there you have it....how smart I have gotten. And others, maybe, as well.
Now about that heating oil. There is a Yahoo group devoted to burning that stuff in boilers to heat their homes and other stuff. They have a dickens of a time getting stuff just right as those furnace burner heads are not all that simple and are really finicky on WMO. That it is a proved concept is without question as there is a whole industry devoted to manufacturing WMO fired furnaces. witness testimonials of Knuts even in this single thread testifying to their thousands of dollars of savings per month and how toasty warm they have been. There isn't a model of ProHeat that is burning WMO and the factory at ProHeat central has told me they have nothing on the drawing board for that fuel. Pity! I have learned that the ProHeat will work OK with motor oil mixed in the diesel fuel in some ratio. Never got the full story but the gist was that it wasn't as finicky as the WMO furnace and you could save a buck on your heating bill. Seemed food for thought and I admit to having WMO on my mind...figuratively speaking. Color me cheap or whatever. Burning the stuff seems to be legal in some places and ultra GREEN Orygun is one of them and I think there is even some sort of tax incentive...like Bio. I don't feel like the mad scientist that is disregarding the welfare of all of mankind in investigating this. I hope others have more to say as i am learning something on this subject. Hope my questions haven't cost me any "good will" from my fellow Knuts.
Thanks all,
John
TomC,
I just reread the thread and saw that I missed your comment that it is common knowledge thing among some. I thought I had heard about it several times. I guess it like burning Waste Vegi Oil. It works in the older mechanical engines but isn't a good bet in the new electronic stuff.
We have a car sales lot here that sells nothing but WVO equipped cars and they have 20 cars or so for sale. Mostly Mercedes Benz of 1988 and older. There are a slew of them around here and I have yet to hear of anybody ruining an engine. The exception to this is the VW TDI engine. I saw one that is brand new and owned by a restaurant owner that is converted to burning WVO from his fryers. He had three vehicles, two trucks and his VW Jetta that were running on WVO. He was ecstatic with the results. I pondered the cost of a new TDI engine but he was sure convinced it was the way to go. There is always the engineer that says the success in burning WVO isn't proved and that all the positive data is purely "anecdotal". Well yeah! But it is thousands of "anecdotals" and they won't shut up for an instant. Well respected Knuts on this board are installing WVO fuel systems and others are having no problem with their system for DD 2 strokes. Who cares if it gets 6 MPG if your fuel is free? Right?
Any way, Tom..Thank you very much for your input,
John
John, please be assured that nothing was taken personally. I am beyond that. Your comments and mine are all part of the discussion. Yes I maybe a little sensitive as a gasoline retailer because of the current run up on prices. Customers take their frustrations on us and mostly our staff. I just wanted to make a point of telling people that most of us retailers don't do such things as diluting diesel with used oil.
Read your post again: "Truck service stations routinely dump hundreds of gallons of drained oil into their Dino tanks. The agrument is that 200 gal of waste into 10,000 gal tank is not going to register. Of course, they are getting $4.50 for that waste and they aren't paying to have hazardious waste hauled at many $ per gallon. This is a tangled web."
You might have started your sentence with: " I have heard that..." but this came across as quite factual and I thought it needed correcting because most gas stations don't do this sort of thing. Am I naive? Maybe they do... I doudt it though, because even if you are operating in a large market, the bulk of your customers are locals and word of fraudulent practice would soon spread.
I agree, there are unscrupulous people in the oil business, as in any business for that matter.
Anyway, I do enjoy this discussion forum because of all the different caracters contributing their varied ideas to it. It certainly makes for an enriching exchange of ideas that I've surely enjoyed since I've joined 2 or 3 years ago.
I always look forward to reading your posts John because you are usually at least one foot outside the box and I like that.
I know that printed words sometimes don't convey the intended idea quite right. I look forward to meeting you in person some day.
Onward...
JC