I would like to find a 50 amp, male, straight blade, four prong, covered, weather proof, receptacle that could be flush mounted to the bus. I want to open my bay and take out an extension cord ( not hard wired to my breaker box ) and plug it in to the bus and pole. I thought this would be easy, but I cannot seem find one ....do they exist?
Thanks
Chazwood.
Heres where you get all that unsolicited feedback. Hope you don't mind, just want to point out something. Food for thought.
If you are at an RV park, and you leave the coach plugged in, if the cable is not hardwired, its very easy for someone to come along and just unplug it at both ends and carry it away.
I must be honest, I've never actually heard of this happening, but this was why I at least made my plug inside a bay. Although I give up a few feet, if the bay is locked, you can't just unplug it.
FWIW
Your right Jim. But either way, with the price of copper what it is, it's a good idea to at least "keep an honest man, honest" by somewhat securing it.
Maybe an access hole in a bay door to one side so you can plug it in inside?
Chaz
Here is one way. Pretty pricey at $99 for the CR6364 female and $86 for the CR6365 male. I think the Marinco brand is even more.
http://www.aplussupply.com/ps/twist/crcs.htm
Is this what you want?
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/15155/377%20710%201639/0/Adapters,%20Plugs%20/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/30/0?N=377%20710%201639&Ne=0&Ntt=Adapters,%20Plugs%20&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5002&subdeptNum=9&classNum=311
In hindsight I would mount the Male plug inside the bay with a floor access panel. ::). Also anything that I found that was weather resistant (nothing is weatherproof) was very pricey. I'm useing a stainless steel marine reciptical. HTH
I've seen the three prong round blade marine plugs, but I was looking for the exact configuration of the 4 blade RV extension cords.
I would have replied sooner.... but I was too busy typing in the worlds longest address link. Thank you jjrbus ;D
Chaz,
There is no particular RV connection for 250 volt/50 amp as there is for 30 amp. The pole end is a standard 50 amp-4 wire connection, the same as used for an electric range.
The other end is usually a Twist-Lock or Marinco. I don't believe a female cord end connector of that type exists. You would end up installing a box and outlet on the end of your cord but no way to mate with a flush mount.
If you make your connection inside the bay (my preference) then you could do just that and use a short range cord to connect the breaker panel to the cord.
but then.... how do you close the bay door.
QuoteMaybe an access hole in a bay door to one side so you can plug it in inside?
Just make it at the edge.
Chaz
In hindsight I would mount the Male plug inside the bay with a floor access panel. One reason for this is the code requires a breaker within 15 inches of the entrance receptical. The receptical could be mounted to the ceiling of the bay with a breaker next to it. Also anything that I found that was weather resistant (nothing is weatherproof) was very pricey. I'm useing a stainless steel marine reciptical. HTH
[/quote]
Ok are you saying that if I hard wire the shore power cord to the transfer switch, do I still have to have a breaker next to where it exits the bus? If I wire to a inlet plug there has to be a breaker with in 15 inches of it?
use a marine inspection hatch or a PVC flange and plug through the floor at the edge of the compartment.
Quote from: chazwood on April 29, 2008, 03:37:08 PM
but then.... how do you close the bay door.
They sell at Rv and Marine supply stores an Various size access panels, That open large enough to put the plug through, then close snugly over the wire. Mount that in the floor.
That should have come through as a link, You have heard of copy and paste?
So if you make a little trap door in the bay door so you can reach through the little trap door and plug the cord in the receptacle in the bay.....you still have issues with making the little trap door weatherproof when the cord is holding it open.
Quote from: jjrbus on April 29, 2008, 04:08:53 PM
Quote from: chazwood on April 29, 2008, 03:37:08 PM
but then.... how do you close the bay door.
They sell at Rv and Marine supply stores an Various size access panels, That open large enough to put the plug through, then close snugly over the wire. Mount that in the floor.
That should have come through as a link, You have heard of copy and paste?
so you want to pull the wire out from underneath the bus?
That's a thought.
Might let a little water in the bay as you drive in the rain?
I was poking fun at the link....I did copy and paste........ but Google rejected my efforts. (apparently even Google has limits) ;D
Quote from: tekebird on April 29, 2008, 04:08:34 PM
use a marine inspection hatch or a PVC flange and plug through the floor at the edge of the compartment.
from underneath the bus?
Chaz,
The hatch is inside the bay, on the floor.
You twist open the hatch from inside, then feed your cord through.
Cliff
Quote from: Bob Gil on April 29, 2008, 04:06:55 PM
In hindsight I would mount the Male plug inside the bay with a floor access panel. One reason for this is the code requires a breaker within 15 inches of the entrance receptical. The receptical could be mounted to the ceiling of the bay with a breaker next to it. Also anything that I found that was weather resistant (nothing is weatherproof) was very pricey. I'm useing a stainless steel marine reciptical. HTH
Ok are you saying that if I hard wire the shore power cord to the transfer switch, do I still have to have a breaker next to where it exits the bus? If I wire to a inlet plug there has to be a breaker with in 15 inches of it?
[/quote]
My shore power receptacle is in the bay directly connected to the master disconnect/fuse box. This is then directly under the distribution panel. The shore power cord goes through an access in the floor of the bay.
I still worry about copper theives, but at the campgrounds we've stayed at I've never seen problems. Some people leave some pretty expensive accessories out in the wide open and leave them there all day while gone. Nobody ever seems to bother them. I've seen tent campers with large TV's inside with nobody around all day. No problems. But the bottom line is, copper thieves carry large bolt cutters. Other than occaisionally electrocuting themselves ;D , they don't have any problem cutting out any wires they want.
Quote from: FloridaCliff on April 29, 2008, 04:22:53 PM
Chaz,
The hatch is inside the bay, on the floor.
You twist open the hatch from inside, then feed your cord through.
Cliff
I would like to see a picture of this hatch. Is it capable of keeping water out of the bay while driving in rain? Does someone have this configuration who could take a snap shot of it? Or shoot yours if you think it's a better/different/not better/wouldn't repeat it/ love it, set up.
I'm open to suggestions....but they had better be clever. ;D
Do a web search on West Marine, Camping Word, Boat US.
This similar to mine!
(//)
Cliff
yep bone dry.....don;t have a pic the marine inspection hatch comes with a flange....
when in doubt, always look to the marine industry.....alot of good answers there. and everything made for the marine industry will easily stand up to coach use
I have mine hard wired to the breaker box with 50ft of wire. The cord is directly below the breaker box in the storage bay. I have a small trap door to lead it out side so the storage bay door can stay locked. Works well for me. It is a 50 amp 4 prong plug. I just carry a 50 to 30 amp adapter and a 30 amp to 20 amp adapter. Good Luck, TomC
Thanx Cliff. I guess I'm not familiar. ??? (and I tend to try to make everything)
Chaz
Quote from: jjrbus on April 29, 2008, 03:00:49 PM
... One reason for this is the code requires a breaker within 15 inches of the entrance receptical.
OK, this is now the fourth or fifth time I've heard this here, and I'm mystified. Could someone please cite the actual section and paragraph of the code where this is written?
I know for a fact there was no such requirement in the '99 code that I was using when I did my bus. I got rid of that code book years ago, since it was huge and I did not have room for it any longer.
Today I finally broke down and gave the NFPA $75 for the new, downloadable PDF version of the 2008 code. I've read the relevant sections four times now, and I still don't see any such requirement.
So, citation please. Anyone?
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Sean, When I did my bus wireing around 99/2000 I swear it was in Da Book. I hate when people spread misinformation and try to be cautious not to. But looks like I am wrong!!! Thanks for catching and correcting it.
Hi Chaz,
Here is what I did. 4"pvc male adaptor through the floor with a 4" pvc plug that sits in the coupler part from inside.
Lower left of the pic.
Nick-
I have a PVC pipe similar to Nicks, but mine is just a 5-6 inch length of 4inch pipe through the floor, when I'm not using it I put a end cap on it, when It is in use, I have a different cap that has a notch out of it the same diameter as the extension cord that way the cord goes through the floor the cap goes on and the critters stay out.
Jim
I am looking at the '99 code as we speak and can find no reference to a distance from the the cord entrance to the first breaker. The 18" (not 15") comes up a couple of times; 551-10 (e) (4) is low voltage protection, 551-30 (e)(3) refers to generator protection.
My '94 Vogue Motor Home (an exceptionally well built machine BTW) runs 7-8 feet from the cable entrance to a transfer switch, then another 7 feet or so to the panel.
As for the cord 551-46(b) calls for a minimum length of 23' with a side entrance (28' with rear entrance)
551-46(e) says the point of entrance shall be within 15 feet of the rear on the left side or at the rear within 18" of the left wall.
That said, I think having a breaker right at the cable entrance might be a good practice. You are depending on the camp breaker to protect that section of wiring in your coach.
If there are changes in a later version of the code, I'd like to know.
Quote from: Len Silva on April 30, 2008, 06:01:03 AM
I am looking at the '99 code as we speak and can find no reference to a distance from the the cord entrance to the first breaker. The 18" (not 15") comes up a couple of times; 551-10 (e) (4) is low voltage protection, 551-30 (e)(3) refers to generator protection.
Len, thanks for confirming that I am not going crazy. AFAIK, there has never been such a requirement in the code, but I've now heard it several times in several different places.
Quote
My '94 Vogue Motor Home (an exceptionally well built machine BTW) runs 7-8 feet from the cable entrance to a transfer switch, then another 7 feet or so to the panel.
When I did my bus, I ran the shore entrance all the way to the ATS, then from there all the way to the inverter. The first (and only) disconnecting means on the shore power is downstream of the inverter, but ahead of the main distribution panel as required by 551.45(c).
Quote
As for the cord 551-46(b) calls for a minimum length of 23' with a side entrance (28' with rear entrance)
551-46(e) says the point of entrance shall be within 15 feet of the rear on the left side or at the rear within 18" of the left wall.
These have been revised. The 2008 code calls for 25' with side entrance, and 30' with rear entrance. Exception #2 to 551.46(e) now permits you to locate the entrance further forward than 15', but you need to add any distance beyond 15' to the minimum length of the shore cord. Same goes for entrances higher than 3' from the ground.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
What is the purpose of the code for where the cord enters the vehicle? I am planning on mine exiting the first bay on the left side and I don't see what difference is made by the cord being nearer the front or rear. Usually the codes make sence, this one I don't get. Thanks!
Glenn
I think they're trying to achieve compatibility between RV's and campgrounds with a minimum of long shore cords running around finding trouble.
I'm sure it will take a while for it to achieve that result. There is a state park I have stayed at a few times that has the power posts on the wrong side on many of the sites and often 25-30 feet away on the others.
In most campgrounds, the pole will be towards the rear or behind the coach. That's also per code 551-76(a).
The connection shall be located on the left side at any point from the rear of the site to a point 15' forward of the rear.
The whole thing makes sense when you look at it that way.
Quote from: Tenor on April 30, 2008, 09:43:39 AM
What is the purpose of the code for where the cord enters the vehicle? I am planning on mine exiting the first bay on the left side and I don't see what difference is made by the cord being nearer the front or rear. Usually the codes make sence, this one I don't get.
Well, first let me say that this provision of the code, and many others, are intended to protect the end-user of an RV from poor design on the part of the manufacturer. Without such code articles, manufacturers are wont to do some pretty stupid things.
In this case, the issue is that RV parks are mandated (by the very next chapter of the code) to put the power pedestal at rear of the coach on the driver side. The idea is to try to standardize where both the pedestal and the inlet end up, so that normal-size cords will reach.
If you build a 40' coach, and put the power inlet three feet behind the front bumper, then you'll need, on average, a 40" long power cord to reach the pedestal, which can be expected to be right at the rear bumper on the driver side. Most cords are just not that long, leaving the RV buyer up a creek.
In the current version of the code, a manufacturer is actually permitted to do this, but he then needs to supply the customer with a 47' cord as well (37'-15'+25'=47').
If you mount the power inlet within the rear 15', you can supply the minimum-length cord of just 25'. RV builders are all about minimizing their costs, so they are highly motivated to put the inlet where the code specifies.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
From the standpoint of protecting us from nefarious manufactures, I get it. Since I have a 36ft cord, I can keep it up to 10ft from the front bumper, give or take how much needs to stay in the bay based on placement of the panel it connects to, right?
Glenn
Quote from: Tenor on April 30, 2008, 04:10:35 PM
From the standpoint of protecting us from nefarious manufactures, I get it. Since I have a 36ft cord, I can keep it up to 10ft from the front bumper, give or take how much needs to stay in the bay based on placement of the panel it connects to, right?
Glenn,
The formula is this:
- Measure how far from the back bumper your cord enters the bus.
- Subtract 15' from that number. This is the "difference".
- The amount of cord from where it actually leaves the bus to the plug on the end needs to be 25', plus whatever difference you came up with in the previous step.
Since you have 36' of cord, we can work backward: 36'-25' leaves 11'. If the cord connects directly to the outside of the bus, then you can mount it 15'+11' or 26' in front of the rear bumper.
If, however, you need, say, 3' of cord to reach from the outside of the bus to the junction box in your bay, then you can only go to 23' in front of the rear bumper. If you have a 40' coach, that's still 17' back from the front bumper.
Make sense?
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Absoulty clear! Thanks Sean!
It's all very easy ....until you pull in, instead of back in. ;D
Wish I would have took a picture. The last park I was at in N Ft Myers FL the box was on the driver side about 3 feet in front of the coach!!
Yeah, They're all over the map where I stay.
It seems to me the safest and smartest thing to do is put the cord somewhere in the middle of the bus so you can reach anywhere.
I carry a 25 ft extension cord. Even in a modern to code park there may be a problem with an outlet. I cannot recall any instance where 50 feet of cord would not get me power.