BCM Community

We may buy another bus  :)  and I am looking for opinions.

I know bus brand name preferences are like auto preferences... everyone has their own opinion! BUT, I also know that the collective experience on this board far outweighs my own, and also outweighs my physical ability to even look at the number of coaches that have been bought, sold, driven, converted, maintained, looked at, and/or thought about.

So, here's the question: If money up to $150K were not a consideration, what brand of bus would you buy and why?

Please narrow your choices by considering the following criteria. I want one already converted. I have the skills to do it my self, I just don't have the time. I would consider some renovation to suit my needs but not much. I am obviously looking at used but not abused. We have never been in a campground other than one day to visit Dallas & Cat so it HAS to be self-contained. Most of the trips last one week, so two people need to be able to stay comfortably (showers, some suits & ties) that long without having to refill water or dump the tanks (100 fresh, 50 grey, 50 black now, would like a little bigger). We need to run a couple of days on batteries (except when running the A/C). 60% of the time we have access to 20A shore power but I want to have 50A capability when it is available. We usually setup at some ones home or church, so I don't want to have to run the gen set in the winter for heat. When we do run the genny it has to be quiet! We use the coach year round  :) so it has to be usable in all kinds of weather. I need to tow a 5000# trailer sometimes. I would like to be reasonably efficient, meaning I don't want a coach that needs a 30KW gen set to operate.

Here are a few things I have learned. I have an MCI & like the looks of stainless on the bottom and paint up top although I would buy a painted coach if everything else suited me. The MCI I have rides terrible. I think that is because the air beams have been blocked off. I have been told they are not worth repairing but can be fixed with the new rolling lobe kit but I don't want to buy a new (to me) coach and have to deal with a bad ride. Eagles supposedly ride good but rust & are very expensive to fix and are no longer in business.  MCIs develop cracks in the engine cradles and do not make good candidates for tow hitches, although I have one on mine & see a lot of them around. I want an auto transmission and more power than the standard 8V71 I have now but I don't need to run 85MPH either. GMCs are light and get better mileage but are not made anymore either, the engines are not mounted very good for maintenance ... and they are not stainless. I know nothing about Prevosts other than they have a good name. There seems to be more professionally converted Prevosts around than other brands thus giving a little more choice. What ever we buy this time we will keep for the next 12 to 15 years so it needs to be in decent shape when we buy it. The MCI we have now is 40' x 96" and that seems to be enought room. I don't want slide outs.

Please keep posts CIVIL!!!!!!!! No " Buy a GMC & you're an idiot for spending extra money to get the Prevost name".

I have already had very smart people tell me I was an idiot for buying the bus I have now!  ;D ;D TELL me WHY I'm an idiot!  ;D ;D ;D

Thanks, TOM

Neoplan, of course!  ;D

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

If the budget is up to $150,000 then there's no decision, IMHO.  A Liberty will do what you want for that price and I defy anyone to come up with a higher quality conversion.  I freely admit that I am NOT an impartial advisor but if/when we are ready to trade up there is only 1 bus on the list and that's a Liberty.  With that budget you can get a Series 60 which will give you minimum 7 MPG (US) and probably 8+.

When I am making a 10-15 year commitment to any machine then the questions I ask are:
- what's the parts availability?
- how standard (and current) are the components?
- how overbuilt is it?

I plan to do my own service on anything other than my daily driver so availability of service isn't really an issue for me.  YMMV

I think if you honestly answer those questions then there are only 2 options in North America.  I'm not familiar enough with MCI and I'm prejudiced toward Prevost.  You can probably find a fleet operator who runs significant numbers of both coaches who could answer the question.

Prevost catered to the conversion folks very early on, providing empty shells and all manner of improvements for that market.  I don't think anyone else would even sell a shell at that time.  Thus their popularity in the market today.

As for the converter, Liberty, Marathon. American Coach, Angola etc., etc. all do a good job.  My preference is Marathon but they are all good.  Except for the spec show coaches, most of these were custom built so there really is no standard to compare to.  You just have to find one you like.

In your price range you should be able to find a very well maintained low mileage coach that will give you many years of service.  It most likely will be a Prevost just because of the numbers.

Check http://www.heartlandbus.com/index.html  and  http://www.horizoncoach.com/

When looking in the 150k range, you are looking a newer models which means Prevost or MCI. There is just too much problem with parts and service if you can't phone a dealer or factory when you need parts. Both of these companies will likely be in business as long as you are driving a bus. Even if they are bought out (like Prevost) and come out with new models with different names, they will support their relatively new buses for many years.

Quote from: oldmansax on April 26, 2008, 09:36:34 AM
... it HAS to be self-contained. Most of the trips last one week, so two people need to be able to stay comfortably (showers, some suits & ties) that long without having to refill water or dump the tanks (100 fresh, 50 grey, 50 black now, would like a little bigger). We need to run a couple of days on batteries (except when running the A/C). 60% of the time we have access to 20A shore power

OK, I'll weigh in here in a more serious vein, in light of the requirements you've listed above, and these other replies:

Quote from: bobofthenorth on April 26, 2008, 10:02:46 AM
...  A Liberty will do what you want for that price

and

Quote from: Len Silva on April 26, 2008, 10:33:17 AM
... Liberty, Marathon. American Coach, Angola etc., etc. all do a good job.  My preference is Marathon but they are all good...

I have to say, I've spent a lot of time looking at coaches from all of these converters, and if you look at their "off the shelf" products, I don't think a single one of them can go "a couple of days" on batteries alone, nor can any be livable on a 20-amp circuit.

There are exceptions, of course.  Most of those vendors had a wide range of allowable customer specification, and a handful of customers likely asked for this kind of extended boondocking capability.  But that's the exception, not the rule.  Also, these converters have moved progressively toward "cookie-cutter" approaches to the "custom" market, and extending the self-contained capability is just not on the menu.  For example, Marathon has roughly 17 floor plans -- if you want something different than what they already have in the computer, you're SOL.  Likewise, they might be able to give you 10-20% more batteries, but not, say, double the number of batteries (typically six 4D AGM's).

If you buy a later model from any of these vendors, you'll likely be hunting for power outlets or running the genny pretty consistently.  20 amps will be barely enough to keep all the whizz-bang electronics and maybe the fridge running.  These are generally all-electric coaches, so the minute you turn the stove on, or want hot water, etc., you'll be drawing on those batteries.  You might be able to squeeze a day or two out of them, but it will mean some very conservative practices.  Possibly starting with ripping out the massive, frost-free, 24 cubic foot fridge these vendors use, and replacing it with something more energy-efficient.

FWIW, YMMV, HTH, etc.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

Right now my coach has 2 roof airs, propane range, heat and hot water, and a 12V/120V, 14 cubic foot(?) fridge. I found out the fridge has two 120V compressors and a built in inverter to run off 12V. My 2000W inverter is much more efficient & stays on always anyhow so I just disconnected the 12V side of the fridge. I have a 12V alternator on the bus engine so I charge the coach batteries while traveling. I have a 60 gallon propane tank that lasts several months and am not opposed to propane in the new bus. I think Sean is right about boondocking in an all electric coach. That would probably be a nightmare.

The points on MCI & Prevost being still in business are well taken. How about the mechanicals between the two. I know engines & transmissions are made by the same folks but how about suspensions, ease of maintenance, parts availability and price. What kind of suspension does a Prevost have and how do they ride? Any opinions?

Quote from: oldmansax on April 26, 2008, 12:05:04 PM
The points on MCI & Prevost being still in business are well taken. How about the mechanicals between the two. I know engines & transmissions are made by the same folks but how about suspensions, ease of maintenance, parts availability and price. What kind of suspension does a Prevost have and how do they ride? Any opinions?

Prevost and MCI pretty much use the same basic design.  However, the products are targeted at different segments of the market.  As a consequence, the MCI's (with the exception of Renaissance models, designed to compete with Prevost in the luxury segment) are million-mile coaches, whereas the Prevosts are half-million-mile coaches.  Drivetrain issues aside, there's probably more trouble-free life left in an MCI versus a Prevost of the same mileage.

That said, those same market differences make Prevosts more favorable for the luxury conversion market.  And, since Prevost also explicitly targets (among others) the conversion, entertainer, and VIP coach markets (as opposed to MCI, who targets the long-haul passenger and, yes, prison transport markets -- think about that), they offer factory features targeted at those markets, such as factory roof-raise and factory slide-outs, as well as a factory air-leveling system.

Both brands ride on air springs, and I would characterize the rides as "similar."  Prevost probably has a slight edge over MCI in this regard.  But if you really want the best air ride, again, you need a Neoplan  ;D

HTH,

-Sean

Don't forget to weigh in the fact that Prevost are mostly stainless steel chassis. Not sure about MCI"s!

There's no rust on mine and it's 16 years old! :)

Might also add that parts are very plentiful and it doesn't cost you to have them shipped to your door, even overnight if you really need them!

BS

This makes me sick, but check this one out - do you think they'd take 100K - If you don't buy it I might take it as a spare

http://www.philcooper.com/details.php?v_id=349

Take any of these and make a ridiculous low offer and don't be suprised if it's accepted - I'd love to be buying a coach right now

http://www.philcooper.com/

Sure makes us guys that have a lot more than that in our coaches wish for one of these.  Or for our friends.  But when I was shopoping they were all a lot more, and I do have a series s 60....

Having said that, I agree you may likely end up with a  Prevost, and they do make good coaches.  parts and maint are good, I am very pleased with the support I've recieved from Prevost.  YHour price range is getting firmly into the used market for professionally done conversions.  Sean makes some good points, but there may be some out there that would make a good startiing point, have been well maintained and won't take too much to modify to meet your boondocking needs.

I would not limit myself to one brand or another, but rather start looking and buy when I find one that has been well taken care of and meets my needs.  Who knows you might even find a Neoplan that you like!

Honestly and without Bias, MCI or Prevost.....both are the market leaders in the US and have nationwide servicecenters and parts wharehouses in several locations.

on top of that pretty much anywhere you happen to be you can find a prevost or MCI operator

About 1980 Prevost got into the new shell conversion market when they had excess production capacity for highway coaches and MCI had an 18 month back order. A few years later, the MC-8 shell sold for the same price as the Prevost Mirage (US$140,000.00)

I would be reluctant to make a general statement that Prevost is a 500k coach versus MCI with a 1 mm mile coach. They compete aggressively in a lot of the same markets. Prevost sells a lot of their buses for transit use (like MCI with NJT) as well as line haul and charter.  Conversion shells must be a small part of their market however the name Prevost has become a generic name for a bus conversion (like Winnibago did for S&S class As).

I have fleet maintenance experience with many brands of coaches.
Our fleet at it's peak consisted of 60 coaches - MCI 5c's,9's,96A2's,102A3's,DL3's, Prevost H340,41,45's, Neoplan (we had 3) and Eagle Model 15's.None of them were converted coaches, all charter and line run coaches.
The Prevost most definitely stands out front in this group.
We ran 100k miles per bus per year. All Prevost were Series 60 with a B500 trans and had air disc brakes with ABS.
No major engine work was needed to well over 800k miles.
Prevost parts and tech support are fantastic, even on the weekends.

No disrespect to other brand coaches is intended, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experience.Hope this may help you. Good luck with your search.  8)

Hummmmm, Let me think?  This bug's me! ;D




Nick-

Sammy,
  Is that what you have? Just curious.

I love my ol' Buffalo just like love my ol' '56 chevy that I drive everyday, but that doesn't mean I don't have a little "drool" when I see a Prevost rollin down the hiway.  :D :D I figure a little maintenance is ok when you have a "Love Affair".   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know allot "less" about bus's than most on here, but I would have to say from what little I know and read, a Prevost would suit you the best, Tom.

FWIW,
    Chaz

I vote for the shiny stainless on whatever you choose!

I don't know why I like it, But I do!   ;)

Its like the chrome on a Cadillac, just looks right......

Cliff

Thanks for all the help so far. It does look like Prevost or MCI will be the final contestants. My apologies to Sean  ;D ;D I kinda thought BK would chime in about the superior Sentra  ;D ;D ;D

I know about some of MCIs problems (air beams, engine cradle cracks, ect.)  because I have one. How about Prevosts? What problems should I look for?

TOM

Tom,

For what you are looking at, I don't think any of those things would be an issue.  For $150k you will find a low mileage (probably well under 200,000) coach that has always been garaged, washed and waxed and maintained meticulously and barely broken in.

That's a whole lot different than a converted retired passenger bus.

The problems you will find come mostly from lack of use. So possibly dried out seals, sticky relays, etc..  If you budget $5-10k after purchase to fix all the problems that might come up in the first few months you will soon have a great trouble free ride.

Tom,

I think BK is out on the road right now.  If not I am still not sure what he would have to say about the Sentra's.   I am not even sure he likes Nissan's.

But you can bet a months pay he would say the Setra's are the best :)  From what little I have seen they are nice coaches.  And they have huge bays.  Just stay away from the version that has both Euro and US parts on the same chassis.  Dallas can tell you what a nightmare they are getting parts.

No matter what you get, you still need to swing by for coffee.

Frank

Chaz, I don't own a coach, bus maintenance is just what happens to be what I do for a living.
Don't claim to know everything, just enjoy helping folks when possible.
I like reading and seeing what everyone does to their coaches, especially since I have no experience with the conversion side of them.
The WVO and other alternative fuels are most interesting right now.Amazing what some folks create with common parts - I most definitely love that type of thinking.
The only "toy" I have is my 55 Chevy, no bus. The pic you see is from the fleet I worked on.
Good luck with your Buffalo, pics are awesome.
Regards,
Sammy  8)

QuoteGMCs are light and get better mileage but are not made anymore either, the engines are not mounted very good for maintenance ... and they are not stainless.

There needs to be a clarification here for new readers who only have these posts to go on.

Quoteengines are not mounted very good for maintenance

???

I think somehow you got that one backwards. I have not seen an easier engine and transmission set up to work on. The only thing that could possibly be a challenge might be the starter, but I have done one, and found that the difficulty of the job is over hyped.

Quote... and they are not stainless.

I understand the context for that, and that you like stainless. I think a new person might take it as a negative though. Aluminum is one of the best materials to have a bus made of. Look at all of the 4104's still plowing the highways. GM buses were over engineered and incredibly expensive to build. That was one of the reason they quit. The expense to update the design and compete with manufactures that were using more inexpensive manufacturing methods was not going to make them money. So they got out.

If 150k is your budget you will be able to find just about anything, and it will be nice. I agree with the other posters that you should go with a Prevost or MCI for the many reasons already stated. You couldn't pick a better time to be looking.

If,the Setra wasn't so hard to convert I would have a S 417 I think it is probably the best looking and the best bus on the road today and will be the only one in 2010 with the DD15

Tom,one year model of the Prevost you need to stay away from is the 1996 with ISS suspension I bought one brand new from a Prevost converter and this bus had all kind of problems with the front end,and I know this will offend some of the Prevost guys but they can talk to Dick Kaiser in Eugene Oregon about the front end problems on this year model.I was told that the problem was corrected in 2000 just trying to help not start a war

I'm late into this discussion, but it's something that I've looked at for a while. 
The only answer is Prevost XL LeMirage or H3-40 or 45. 
H3's will be pushing the envelope at $150K, but the market sucks and you may find a cherry within your budget. 
There are offerings for low mileage XLs for $100K and up in 8V92TAs.   $150 should find a 4 stroke...S60 in an XL.   Low mileage is 150K or less. 
As has been said already, these coaches are excellent for the most.  They suffer more from lack of use. 
MCI D model would likely be the "best,"  most dependable, and most easily repaired/serviced, but there are no numbers in these chassis in factory conversions.  Same for E models. 
An MCI "E" factory conversion couldn't be bought for $150K in any event.
Prevost has the numbers, and they are drop-dead good looking.  Prevost pretty well supplies the factory conversion shell market. 
Just because someone's asking $200 or $250K for a coach doesn't mean they'll get it. 
Buses (and boats, RVs, and general aviation airplanes) are taking a terrible hit in the market.  This is a great time to buy a used factory converted coach.
My dos centavos!  JR
 
   

Frank, You're right! We still need to get over there for coffee. But, you know, "There's no life west of the Bay"!   ;D ;D ;D Just Kidding!  I just don't get over there at all but I need to try.

Barn Owl, I didn't mean to step on toes but I like the room around my T-drive MCI better than what I had around my old 4104 V-drive. Of course the newer GMCs are probably more roomy. The stainless thing is just personal preference. I hope anyone who is thinking about a bus would read a lot of this board & not just a few posts. You are right about the longevity thing.

Luvbus, that is real good info although a '96 or newer would probably be over the budget. Of course, if someone had one of those with a lot of problems & offered it a a low price, you just saved me from making a big mistake.

That's what's great about this board! a wealth of information! And a little BS too!   ;D ;D

TOM

Quote from: FloridaCliff on April 27, 2008, 08:26:05 AM
I vote for the shiny stainless on whatever you choose!

I don't know why I like it, But I do!   ;)

Its like the chrome on a Cadillac, just looks right......

Cliff

DIDDO  ;)

Tom,

I didn't take any offence and I understand you didn't mean anything by it. I haven't had the experience of being under the hood of every bus made like some on here but maybe I need to take a second look at a T-drive. Everything I do on my bus it seems like I can do standing up with everything easily accessible. I have seen an MCI 8 and an H3 and I feel I have it easy compared to those owners. I own a GM for two reasons: 35' and the most affordable entry level bus there is. Otherwise I would probably have something else, like a jet.

Laryn

Tom -

Altho I'm a die-hard GMC fan, I'm going to avoid letting that bias show as I add my nickel's worth to this thread.

(But I do agree that a GM powertrain is somewhat easier to work on than a T-drive - if for no other reason that you don't have any belts to worry about!)

Onward:

The Prevost pictured below is a rare 1974 MCC-41 model - 35 x 96, converted new from the factory by Custom Coach in Ohio.  Odometer reads 194K original miles on a 34-year old coach, obvously low miles, eh?  But that's not the point I want to make. . .

One of the things that differentiates a Prevost from an MCI, at least up until the "E" model, has been the placement of the air bellows on the rear axle.  Your MC-8, as well as the 5s, 7s, 9s, etc., all had the bellows mounted inside the duals.  Prevost, OTOH, has mounted them outboard for years - the MCC below has them that way - long before others.  The entire stainless panel around the drive axle pivots up to reveal not only the air bellows, but also, IIRC, the leveling valves.  This outboard placement seems to reduce the side-to-side rock 'n roll of most air suspended coaches, and definitely reduces the feeling that you're cornering on the rub rails.

Because of this, Prevosts often are said to have a much nicer ride than an MCI, especially one of the same vintage.  Many folk claim that the Eagle has always had the best ride of any coach built, and of course that argument is like Chevy vs Ford, so I won't go there.  But I can say that the Prevost ride is different than MCI, a much more stable feeling.  You need to find one that's close to you and take it for a drive, without any commitment, so that you can see/feel the difference.

(Personally, the 40-foot GMC 4905 has the best air ride I've ever experienced, mostly due, I think, to the l-l-l-l-l-o-o-o-o-o-n-n-n-n-g-g-g-g wheelbase and the OEM factory anti-roll bars.  Better than a Scenic, IMHO [altho the Scenics have much better brakes].  But we're not talking about GMCs. . . :D  )

As far as the chassis goes, to me, the earlier model Prevost's baggage bay doors didn't feel as hefty as the MCIs, but that also made them a lot easier to open!  Up until the H-series, Prevosts were built similar to a GM or an MCI, a semi-monocoque.  Starting with the H, IIRC, Prevost began using a birdcage technique, like Eagle, so the exterior skins are not stressed like the others.  Better?  Arguments go both ways on that.  Starting in the mid-'90s, Prevost was also the first to start installing disc brakes on their coaches. . .

Others have mentioned Prevost's customer service when it comes to parts - I can attest to that somewhat.  I called the factory and asked if it might be possible to get a copy of the Final Vehicle Record for the MCC below.  It took them four weeks (partly due to the entire factory's closing for vacation in August), but they were able to come up with it - for a 34 year old coach!!  How's that for service?

The only thing I didn't like about Prevosts, Eagles, VanHools and Setras, is the fact that the driver sits lower than the main salon floor.  Personal preference, for me, is the MCI in this regard.  Sean's Neoplan has this low driver seating, too, but he's also got a double-decker, so we'll allow that. . .  :D

Setra's are a GREAT coach, but. . . up until the S-417, they had a dropped-aisle main floor that's extremely difficult to level.  They are also not as common, altho they're making more of an impact on the market.  None of the major conversion outfits have taken on Setra shells, TTBOMKATT, but that could happen in the future.

Since the market is really depressed right now, consider looking at coaches in the $150K > $200K range.  You might be able to pick up that $200K rig for $150K, if the owner's motivated enough and you're waving cash under his nose. . .

You might also ask your questions over on the Yahoo Prevost busnut Groups, to get some feedback from owners over there.

I've heard that at some rallies, a few of the Prevost folk sort of "turn-their-noses-up" at those driving SOBs, but that's just heresay.  Maybe others can confirm/deny. . .  I know that at Jack's party in Arcadia the two times I've been there, the Prevost folk were just as gracious as anyone else, moreso in some cases (Ace & Steve Fesseden(sp?) among them).

So, even as a GMC guy, I hate to say this, but my recommendation is that you seriously consider a Prevost, preferably one converted by Liberty or Angola.  IMHO, the Marathon's are more of a rolling bordello! :o   Once you find one, you can always have it modified to suit your particular needs (larger holding tanks, more battery capacity, etc.) for a lot less than starting over from scratch, and minimum downtime.

FWIW & HTH. . .

;)

T drive vs transverse GM

Many a maint supervisor who was around in the GM days has stated that the GM's are the easiest bus to maintain from the standpoint of the mechanic.

pretty much everything is easily acessable from the tailgate.  No crawling into tunnels to do this or that.

having a fair amount of experience with both I tend to agree. only thing not readily accessable is the muffler in some applications and the starter on the 8v's

Removing an driveline package from a GM is also much less involved.

that said, outside of a few Late model GM's I think you will be better served by one of the current bus brands.


Oh MCI has supurb customer service too.......of course that may not be the case if you don;t have an account, but I can get a FVR from MCI in less than 24 hours, and have a parts rep and sales rep that I can call anytime not to mention the parts guys.

I ahve also had good service from Prevost, but occasionaly I've had some communication issues with the thick Frech Canadian accents

Quote from: Russ on April 27, 2008, 09:39:25 PM

One of the things that differentiates a Prevost from an MCI, at least up until the "E" model, has been the placement of the air bellows on the rear axle.  Your MC-8, as well as the 5s, 7s, 9s, etc., all had the bellows mounted inside the duals.  Prevost, OTOH, has mounted them outboard for years - the MCC below has them that way - long before others.  The entire stainless panel around the drive axle pivots up to reveal not only the air bellows, but also, IIRC, the leveling valves.  This outboard placement seems to reduce the side-to-side rock 'n roll of most air suspended coaches, and definitely reduces the feeling that you're cornering on the rub rails.


Others have mentioned Prevost's customer service when it comes to parts - I can attest to that somewhat.  I called the factory and asked if it might be possible to get a copy of the Final Vehicle Record for the MCC below.  It took them four weeks (partly due to the entire factory's closing for vacation in August), but they were able to come up with it - for a 34 year old coach!!  How's that for service?

Tom -

Two things I want to add to my previous comments:

1.  In addition to the outboard mounting of the air bellows, many Prevosts come with a switch that allows you to lift the tag axle completely off the ground.  Doesn't help the ride when you do so (it gets worse), but it can provide some additional traction in adverse conditions.  Some say it tightens up the turning radius, but I've never noticed any difference.

2.  To clarify why obtaining that FVR that took four weeks - I first called on a Friday afternoon, about 4 pm Eastern, the Friday before the plant shut down for a three week vacation.  Once the plant reopened, the FVR was in my mailbox the following Saturday.  The fellow who originally took my order told me, at the time, about the upcoming vacation, so I was aware of it.  He also told me that for a coach that was this old, he'd have to go to another building where the paper records were kept, because only the newer stuff (mid-80's on, I think is what he said), is stored electronically.  So when you think about it, the service wasn't bad at all.  This fellow had to traipse over to some musty storeroom, wade thru a bunch of file boxes to find 1974's records, then sort thru the box until he found the correct VIN's FVR, go back to his office, make a copy to mail to me, then return the original to it's storage box, and reshelve.  A whole lot more work than simply pulling the number up on a keyboard.  So I was pleased with the service, considering the timing of my request.  And it was free, too!

(And to answer the unasked question:  The coach pictured in my original comments was part of an estate.  A decision was made between the beneficiaries and the estate's trustees to sell the coach, and it was put up for bid.  After only two bids were received, one of the estate's two beneficiaries decided to buy the coach from the estate and keep it.  Last I heard, it was N of San Francisco in Marin County.  Very unique coach, that's for sure.  Was in good shape, just dusty from lack of use.  Even had all the original Custom Coach manuals for the house systems, too!)

FWIW & HTH. . .

;)

I'll 2nd the comments about Prevost parts service.  The 1st time I phoned there I had a toll free number that I wasn't sure was the parts number so I phoned it on a Sunday, expecting to get an answering machine.  Instead somebody answered the phone, took my order, set up a new charge account for me and then apologised profusely because she couldn't ship the parts until the next morning.

I had one bad experience with their accounts receivable dept though.  About a year after we had some work done in their Mira Loma facility I got an invoice in the mail for work done on a 2 year old H3.  It was a trivial amount - $180 maybe - but clearly a mistake.  I phoned them immediately and joked with them that, if they would guarantee to have the keys ready, I would pay the bill when I picked up the coach.  They assured me that they would fix the mistake and I forgot about it.  Forgot about it until I started getting late payment notices that is.  After several phone calls and about 6 months of time wasted I finally contacted Volvo's North American service mangler and complained.  The problem was then solved within 2 days.

Crown Super Coach.  Others will agree.  Superior engineering.  Admidships pancake mill, (either Cummins or Detroit) custom crome moly boxed frame with bonded/welded/bolted aluminimuminumm body, huge air brakes, 10 speed Roadrangers, Jakes, very aerodynamic, (mine got 10+mpg @ 60 mph) off the shelf class 8 components (usually) easy to work on (not always) and driver friendly.

Crown Super Coach mostly built school buses and was kinda a West Coat thing.  They went belly up in the early 1990's.  Factory warranty was 20 years and 200K, bumper to bumper, parts and labor (or soosss I was told by a factory rep way back in 1970)  Hundreds (scores?) still in daily service in LA.  If you lived in Southern California, you kids rode a Crown Super Coach.  CROWNS FOREVER!!!  :) :) :)

bobofthenorth,

Damn, I was trying to get you to pay my bill.....

Now you're telling me there are other buses out there besides Prevost?  :o :o :o
A lot of people believe the sky is falling too!! :D :D ;D

I wish I was ready to buy right now as there are a couple on ebay I would look at real close!

TOM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190217331511&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320242893845&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300220976108&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020

What are the chances of 3 decent Prevosts being on at the same time?  ??? ???

The way RV sales are going right now, with fuel and the housing market ... I would say pretty good. They look like great buys for that price.
Ron

I would suggest trying to find a 1994 or newer Prevost with the Series 60 for better fuel mileage.  You might be able to get into one for $150,000.  I didn't see anything on Ebay in the 1994 or 1995 vintage with a Series 60 right now.

The oil bubble will probably burst and fuel prices might drop a bit for a while, but they are going to just keep going up long term.  The extra cost for more MPG up front will get paid off faster and faster as fuel prices rise.

finding a converted Prevost for 150k with a 60 series will be hard considering decent seats H models are till fetching around 100k.

must keep in mind that a professionally converted Prevost of 1994+ vintage likely cost 600k Or more.

although fuel prices suck.....people that buy a 600k+ bus don;t care about fuel prices thus are not selling them off for that reason like people with class A S&S with a ford V-10 that is getting 3mpg


based on todays fuel prices and 15k miles a year.

8-92T...............10377.00 in fuel based on 6.5mpg
Series 60.......... 7941.00 based on 8.5mpg

at 2000.00 per year presently, it would take you some time to recover the cost of a series 60 equiped coach

I'm with Tekebird on the financial reasoning. It takes a long time recover fuel costs if you buy a new (er) vehicle solely based on MPG.

I have a diesel Suburban that gets 16 to 18 MPG. I can buy a new SUV that gets 22/24. How long at 20k to 30K a year before I get my investment back?   

A LONG TIME!   >:( >:(

I don't think I will base my decision on engine type.

Besides,

I LOVE THE WAY A DETROIT SOUNDS!!!!    ;D ;D ;D

TOM

I hear ya Tom,

I bought my Diesel Truck when Diesel was cheaper than gas....and have had a 300SD Mercedes Diesel before than ( still have it)....thought about buying something new perhaps a VW diesel 40+ mpg....but the car and truck are paid for......and the car gets 25mpg around town.....30 or so highway.......

my solution...ride my motorcycle more..  50+mpg also paid for.

Quote from: tekebird on May 01, 2008, 05:26:27 AM
finding a converted Prevost for 150k with a 60 series will be hard considering decent seats H models are till fetching around 100k.

must keep in mind that a professionally converted Prevost of 1994+ vintage likely cost 600k Or more.

although fuel prices suck.....people that buy a 600k+ bus don;t care about fuel prices thus are not selling them off for that reason like people with class A S&S with a ford V-10 that is getting 3mpg


based on todays fuel prices and 15k miles a year.

8-92T...............10377.00 in fuel based on 6.5mpg
Series 60.......... 7941.00 based on 8.5mpg

at 2000.00 per year presently, it would take you some time to recover the cost of a series 60 equiped coach

As Tekebird said, do the math.

I just figured buying a economy 35+mpg mini suv, against my owned mini van 18+ mpg.

I would almost break even at todays fuel prices, but WHEN they drop, I am in the hole.

The numbers don't lie, or carry emotion.  Off my soapbox.... :-*

Cliff

Non-slide Prevost XLs with 4 strokes are in the market for $200K and up. 
FMCA ads recently had a (this bus was on Ebay too) '96 Marathon Prevost with 170K miles with an asking price of $279K.   It didn't sell during the listing.
If you get into '98 or later, slides, and 45' coaches, you may be looking at half mill plus, but non-slide 40' coaches won't bring that sort of price anymore.  Someone may ask that, but they ain't likely to get it.   
These factory conversions are usually super plush..but they are super complicated.  Some may have gremlins that can be expensive (or impossible) to sort out.   You'll definitely want the thorougly check out all the tiny gizmos and functions in a complicated factory conversion.   
Computer controlled interiors, and low mileage engines that have been 'rebuilt' are signs.  Bad signs.   Some folk can deal with these issues and other will about buy the bus again trying to get the little buggers repaired.   
Still, excellent deals are out there.  Just gotta look for them.   I believe the deals will get better as time goes.   This time of year, some of the coaches that were for sale thru the winter are being used again.  The fall should see a great buyer's market. 
There was an '88 Marathon (?) Prevost LeMirage that was nice inside, clean on the outside, but could use some paint in the near future, believe it belonged to 'Syl' (?), that was for sale with an asking price of $120k bucks.  All the stainless was excellent.  Powered with an 8V92TA.   Really a nice conversion. 
You'll see these coaches on Ebay for $90K and up.  Most don't sell unless they're bonafide steals.
There is more motivation for buying four stroke than fuel mileage.   2 strokes are beginning to become difficult to get good quality service on the road.  Everyone's familiar with the popular four strokes.   
IMHO, and contrary to popular opinion, 2 strokes are far more complicated than 4 strokes.  If possible, a 4 stroke is the way to fly.   
Good luck with your rolling retirement village!  JR 

 

Speaking of factory professional conversions, I know where a friend of mine (a car dealer) is selling a very nice, clean prevost. It's a LeMirage model with one of if not the best bodies I have seen. This coach looks brand new. It should as it's been garage kept! It has 57K original miles. New rubber all around and for 90K it's truly a steel. Had I not bought the one I have I would have jumped all over this one. He got it a auction and has been trying to sell it. I guess fuel prices are keeping more people from buying than we really think!
BS

Tom, if you haven't look yet take a peek at Phil Coppers web site where individuals have Prevost for sale 95 or 96 models are no where close to 600k.You will find  the 1996 Prevost with the ISS front end to be the less expensive David the guy that bought mine has it listed there