We went and picked up our bus today, and noticed it seems the passenger side rides hirer than the drivers side. Is there any adjustment in the air bags that can be done...or is this a bigger problem? Its looks like one side is 3-4" higher than the other side.
The leveling valve may not be set right or disconnected
or one of the bags or hoses is leaking on that side.
Either way, block it up before going underneath.
Cliff
Drive it a little and see if it fixes itself first.
It may be just from sitting...
Cliff
More than likely leveling arm on rear is bent or just out of adjustment, unless you can hear air whistling out. But like Cliff says, block it safely before you crawl under. Suddenly deflating bags can kill :o
Good luck with her, Will
Greg, I used to bring in dead buses periodically. This one could also be a disconnected/broken, or bent link between the leveling valve and the (axle? - I'm a GM guy). I remember bringing in a GMC transit by stopping every frequently, and hitting the link with a broomstick to air the bags back up.
You may be able to look in with a flashlight, and see if this is the issue.
Pay heed to the above, do not get any part of your body between hard objects (bus/tire, bus ground), without proper blocking.
(Edit - I guess Will and I both thought the same thing at the same time - too bad this isn't a place where we vote on the problem, because this would probably be the cheapest fix).
Arthur
the bus is on its way from Toledo to my house right now. I hope its something that is just disconnected. It drove an hour from Detroit to Toledo tonight and didn't level it self, so i think its more. It was just at the Allison dealership getting worked on so maybe something just got disconnected. I'll keep you posted. Should be here in about 30 minutes. Any exact place I should look first?
May want to drive it a little before working on the leveling valves. Leveling valves suffer from lack of exercise (so do I ;) ) and may begin to work correctly if driven a few miles. However, the low side drive axle leveling valve is very likely the source of your problem.
Could be other things too. Leaky anything on the low drive axle side...air beams, bags, bad leveling valve (s), or bent linkage. Keep in mind that the drive axle leveling valves are the side-to-side leveling.
One other item to check is that the tag axle dump valves are set correctly. Reach around the tag wheels and check the bags for inflation. If one dump valve is open, the bus may 'list' to the side with the uninflated tag bag. The valves are inside the RH side engine service door.
Air it up, shut it down (or use shop air), and get your wife to listen for leaks. Children can hear really well too. They'll hear things leaking that most adult males cannot hear.
If the air compressor is cycling frequently...on the highway maybe more than every 15 minutes, and the air leaks off the bus within minutes, some of the leaks should be repaired.
Get an MC9 manual so that you can sort out jacking up the bus and leveling valve adjustment.
Good luck, JR
My right rear valve is sticky in the morning. The bus leans to the right, but with the manual leveling controls I have, I can just level it up. Once the valve warms up, don't have any problems the rest of the day. Probably should replace all the valves. Good Luck, TomC
Yea, the bus has a serious lean to the left. My tag axles won't drop down, would that have any cause in it? I feel i might have bitten off more than i can shew with this bus. If anyone is in the Northwest Ohio area and wants to stop in and teach me everything they know, i would love it. June race at MIS is in about 58 days and i don"t think i will be ready for it. Starting to panic. I have my maintenance manual, and I'm pretty overwhelmed. If I can figure out this lean problem and get the tag axles to drop I would feel a lot better.
Dude, I have nothing to add re the air bags, others are covering that. Re "starting to panic" well I've been there. These bus things are huge, and everything takes twice (3X? 4X? 5X?) as long than on a car. Jeez the other day using a air line from a big garage just bringing my tires up from around 35psi to 90 took close to 30 mins...5 of those sitting on my @$# after I almost knocked myself out smacking my head into the mirror arm. And filling up with coolant who knew that actually took a chunk of time. But driving that big ol beast around was great, and while the learning curve is steep, if you do good work along the way, many of the systems should not require constant maintenance. Well anyway, I've noticed thinking you bit too much off is a common feeling among the beginning bus nut crowd. Good Luck, Patrick.
my bus has been sitting all night now, and its still sitting leaning to the drivers side....shouldn't the air have settled out and basically deflated the bags to nothing and it should be level now? how do i deflate the bags on the passemgers side to set the bus low to the ground? or should i not do this or can't i do this? How do i adjust the leveling valves? help...help..help..
I think the fact that it is still aired up after sitting overnight is a good sign (no air leaks). At least that's one thing you've got going for you. ;)
Greg,
Do you have the Maintenance Manual?
If not you reallly need one or someone on here may be able to fax you the pages you need.
Or someone with the same model may be able to talk you through this on the phone.....
By the way, you want it to stay aired up...its a good thing.
Cliff
i have the manual on cd in PDF version...looking at it made me feel even worse...ha. I shows me where stuff is....but what do i do with it? I know where the leveling vals are....but what do i do to try to fix my issues? To me it seems like the drivers side just isn't getting air but the passengers side is. Is there something I can start to look to resove with that. What is the first thing i should do to try to get air to the drivers side?
what if i want to let the air out of the bus and set her down on the ground? how do i do that. Where's all the MC9ers out there. Help an uneduacted busnut out.
6 hours ago i really wished I had my schoolie back....she wasn't so difficult. But now i've got a new positive attitude......
Greg, relax.
Don't go under your bus at all.
Do this first:
Open the last small side door on curbside, just behind the curbside tag wheel.
Look on your right side,inside the compartment. There should be 2 small valves that control air flow to your tag axle bellows. Make sure they are in the proper position - air "on".
On the inside of that same small door you just opened, there should be a decal to show you proper position of these valves.Check the maintenance manual too.
Don't go under your bus until you know how to properly support the body and the chassis.
Air suspensions can KILL you, if not handled properly.
Best of luck with your new bus.
I dont have air suspension on mine but I know a small amount about it. you said it was just at the Allison dealer and now it leans. I assume that it was fine when it went? what did the dealer do to it? yes it is possible that something was disconnected or a valve was closed or something. if it was fine prior to it being at the dealership then there is a good chance they forgot to reset something or hook up a leveling valve when they finished up. I have run into problems like that before when having something worked on. dont Panic. before the bus existed it was a bunch of steel and parts and someone put it all together. there is nothing on it that someone (you) cant fix or put back together with a little guidence.
steve
Bowmaga,
Sorry I only have an MC8 but lets just get things set up first.
What NJT5047 (JR) and Sammy said was a good start if that didn't connect with you....... let's start over.
SAFETY First.
Block the wheels.
Proper Jacks at the proper places......put weight on the jacks......well that was easy.
Check to make sure the jacks are not sinking....if they are get bigger cribbing to disperse the weight.
next do you have an air compressor.......it will help with the diagnoses.
OK the situation is "Air bags won't inflat"
Only 2 basic reasons
1. A leak..................aired up with the compressor someone with good ears should be able to hear the leak
2. Something is plugged............harder to find but usually means a need for a good cleaning and proper maintenance.
On the passenger side back engine door should be a male air connector. Hook your air line there fill it to 100# and
listen for leaks..........CHECK THE JACKS! (your bus could have moved higher making the jacks vulnerable)
If you can hear leaks then #2 is probably ruled out.
Now it is time to pin point the leak.
CHECK the JACKS and block it up before crawling under.
NEVER stick your head between the wheel and body. Use light weight plastic tubing
to push around to where you want to listen to. (oh and one end in your ear) :)
Check all lines
check air bags
check the valves.
I hope this helps take a deep breath you have a couple of days before the storm hits.
Please be safe
Skip
Quote from: skipn on April 18, 2008, 02:48:48 PM
... Use light weight plastic tubing
to push around to where you want to listen to. (oh and one end in your ear) :) ...
Skip, that's brilliant! A low-tech remote controlled bionic ear ;D
I can't find anywhere in my manual that tells me where to put the proper jacks in the proper places. Thanks for the advice, I need more specifics if there are any. Don't assume I know anything. I'm going to back my bus up to my garage and start working on her. I'm gonna fix this. I have some jack stands and some jacks. The Allison dealership told us they didn't think she had any air leaks. That's why I'm baffled that she's sitting this way. I don't think its an air leak issue. its an issue air just isn't getting to that side or something. I can't say if this was like this before...i just bought the bus and last night was the first night it spent at my house. I didn't expect problems so early in out relationship.
Bowmaga,
Personally 10k# won't cut it I think most of the guys on the board use 10 Ton jacks
and the jackstands should be that beefy. The suspension part of the maintenance
manual is where it says to place the jack.
REMEmBER you are jacking up the suspension not just the bus so if the air bags/lines
have a major failure the bus will drop like a lead balloon that is why you don't
stick body parts between the suspension and the rest of the bus!
You are only jacking it up so you can get under it and not be crushed if there
is a failure! RAMPS work very well there are links on the board on how to
build them.
Hiway..........one learns to compensate for age.
Skip
My mc9 leans whenever she feels like it. I think she's lazy. I notice it's the worst when I don't take her out for about 2 weeks. (just like my wife... :D) I left for a 900 mile trip to arkansas and she leaned for so long that when she finally straighten up....it felt weird.
I do notice that if she's been sitting for a week or so and I take off as soon as the low air light flicks off (90 psi.) and I don't let it get up to 120 pounds pressure for a little bit... she's more prone to lean.
One time I noticed the big lean and walked around the bus to peek at the other side, just about the time I did, the relief valve blasted telling me she was up to 120. I immediately walked back around to the first side I had looked at, and it was up. weird.
I wouldn't get too wound up about it. (although I did at first ;D)
The more you use it, the less she acts up.....remember, these things were designed to never shut down.
I've never seen a happy greyhound sitting in a cage or on a chain.
Run it. Let her feel the wind in her teeth......
I promise, if you cut her loose often enough, she will do you right.
chazwood.
Ps. Don't repeat that remark about my wife....If she gets wind of it..... I'm toast.
Quote from: bowmaga on April 18, 2008, 03:27:04 PM
I can't find anywhere in my manual that tells me where to put the proper jacks in the proper places. Thanks for the advice, I need more specifics if there are any. Don't assume I know anything. I'm going to back my bus up to my garage and start working on her. I'm gonna fix this. I have some jack stands and some jacks. The Allison dealership told us they didn't think she had any air leaks. That's why I'm baffled that she's sitting this way. I don't think its an air leak issue. its an issue air just isn't getting to that side or something. I can't say if this was like this before...i just bought the bus and last night was the first night it spent at my house. I didn't expect problems so early in out relationship.
Go to harbor freight (if you want to die) and buy a thirty ton chinese bottle jack. (Cheap....but they want to kill us. Your choice.) Get on your back and scoot under your bus......try not to get greasy ;D
Look Right behind your front wheels for a square piece of steel tubing, pointing straight at the ground......this is your jack point. I use a 4 inch square piece of 1/2 inch plate on top of my bottle jack. Look for the same thing at the back wheels.
Assuming an MC8 is similar to an MC9, the rear jack points are a small flange welded to the frontmost aspect of the vertical steel post to which the drive axle suspension is attached.
This is just in front of the drive axle wheels.
If you jack less than about 5", you will not be lifting the drive axle and suspension components...so whether or not the bus is aired won't have any effect on what you're doing. Jacking more than about 10" will extend the shock enough to top-out the shock and then lift the drive axle. This really twists the bus and probably should be avoided. Twist it enough and you may break, or pop out windshields. They will definitely shift in the windshields in the frame if the bus is twisted enough. Popping out isn't really likely on an MCI. Eagle windshields will.
I would not lift the bus that far with the jacking points. Take up about 3" or enough to take the load off the suspension. Then use a small jack to lift the drive axle. No need to lift the duals any more than enough to pass a coat hanger or paper beneath them.
Never lift or jack the bus with the suspension components...axles, beams, or any thing else other than the jack point or bottom of wheels (ramps).
Don't let the tags hang over ramps. Support the tags.
Compressing them doesn't seem to cause any problems. Or, you can dump the tag bags.
Unless the bus is blocked on concrete, I wouldn't get under it period...generally.
Be careful with ramps on dirt. They'll turn over and smush you. Be careful with jacks on asphalt too. Jacks will punch right thru asphalt. A piece of 12" X 12" steel plate will make jacking safer.
I forget which bus we're talking about now? Someone's been posting about an MCI that has the wheel wells sitting on the tires. If this is part of the problem, the bus can be jacked up, and a block of wood placed between the suspension and the chassis to move it short distance at very slow speeds (around the yard). Blocks are something like oak or cut cross ties.
When the air bags are working normally, jacking the bus to remove wheels is easy. Air it up, just set the jack under the jack point, extend so that it is against the jack point, and bleed the air out of the bus. It'll give you 5" of jacking without any effort. Don't jack on the axles unless the air is bled out and the bus body is jacked up.
JR
chazwood. Doesn't that lean put a lot of pressure on the side its leaning to's wheels? Wouldn't that be bad on it? I still haven't figured anything out.....my next step might be a for sale sign.
Bowmaga,
Tell you what Dallas is/was 4hrs south of you. PM him/call and hire him
to come up and help you fix the bus and answer/teach you about your
bus
It would probably be the best bus money you will ever spend.
One day with Dallas will save you 6 months of pulling your hair out :)
Skip
Quote from: bowmaga on April 19, 2008, 05:17:57 AM
chazwood. Doesn't that lean put a lot of pressure on the side its leaning to's wheels? Wouldn't that be bad on it? I still haven't figured anything out.....my next step might be a for sale sign.
Well, If I had new rubber I might be more concerned....but the bus spends its life leaning one way or another, so it can't be all that bad....just a little disconcerting at first.
By the way......I'm hoping you might pinpoint the problem so you can tell me how to fix it. If you quit on me now....how will I ever know? ;D
I would pay closer attention to fixing it myself but as I mentioned before ....the problem goes away if you use it often. I noticed it all the time when I first bought the bus, (it had been sitting for a year) it happened off and on for about a month. But ever since I returned from the "Little Biggie" adventure (read about it in future articles :)) The old gal sits straighter than a nun at a frat party.
My advice? Ignore it for now.....move on to other things that need attention.....drive it as often as you can.... see if it disapears on it's own like mine did. But, if you must know....and do discover the cause, by all means, share with the rest of us. ;D
Furthermore, and not withstanding.....( I've never been able to figure out exactly what that means, but it sounds cool :D) The longer you operate these old gals the more you realise why we call them Gals.....it's because they take a very long time to warm up. The older they get the longer they take. (let me rephrase that... the older yours gets the longer she takes...I don't have that problem.... ;)) It takes at least a 100 miles of wide open before she get in a good mood. If you only drive her around the block she will complain. ("kiss me first" comes to mind) These ladies require a certain amount of commitment before they perform well.....Dang, this little chat is beginning to take on a rather seedy tone....)sorry Ladies :-[(
I guess what I'm trying to say is ....I feel your pain, but....don't get discouraged.....don't get impatient....don't give up.....someday, you will be very glad you married her. And if you're like me ...it will be soon.
Well?....how's it going?
hello from texas
my old scenicruiser. did this as i drove down the road. found that the duct tape
which someone use to hold the leveling arms for the rear airbag came loose.
duct tape works on almost everything. j.t.
Sheesh...
bowmaga, if you're still here...
using your mainteance manual pictures, determine if the arms for your leveling valves are there, connected, bent, missing, etc. flashlight is a handy tool. Never mind the compex, deal with the simple first.
As for your safety... as long as you aren't touching anything, see directions below. The danger with air suspension and novices, is you mess with the airlines or height controls or anything else you have no clue about and lower the bus onto yourself... you won't be doing that without further preparations, more height, blocking the suspension blah blah blah, will you?
Car grade jacks and ramps and jack stands are NO MATCH for your bus, they are too weak to protect you.
ok, got some 2x4 2x6 2x8 whatever lumber lying around? Run the rear wheels up on a collection of 2x lumber, be sure to mix and match the direction of the pieces and stack the collection tightly to make a secure footing. You'll need enough to make a couple of steps for the tires to climb. You ony need enough layers to fix it so the bus body, at it's lowest potential travel, can't squeeze the life out of you if it comes down. Also makes it easier for the full figured boy to crawl around a little more graciously...
Report back on your investigations.
I'm pulling for you!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Greg,
So where are things at now?
Skip
not much farther...but I'm not still laying underneath the bus either. I didn't get a chance to really dig into her. She still won't level up and the tag won't drop. I did find back by the tag axle valves, there is a solenoid on each line. One of the solenoids wires are broken and not connected and i can seem to see where it would go. Could this be a part of my problem. I will take some pictures tonight of what it looks like and post them. It took until sunday afternoon until she completely lost her air and is all the way down on both sides. Also, i know the previous owner had to replace one of the air bags. I do not know which one it was or which side. He won't answer my calls or return my emails. I have the hunch that has something to do with it also. I forgot all about that until I was in her yesterday and saw the old air bag laying inside. I'm a little lucky, in the aspect, that I work for a construction company and, at my shop, we have a pit in our mechanics bay, and its big enogh to get this big girl in. Though my mechanic has never worked on MCI bus, he has worked on numerous tri-axle dump trucks and semi's, and made me feel a lot better after talkking to him this morning. He's going to take a look at it with me one of the next few weekends, and see if we can figure something out. Until then, I'm going to try to work on the tags, myslelf, to get them to move. I assume lack of grease, is part of the problem. And then start gutting it and working on other stuff. I will keep everyone posted for sure. I appreciate all the help and I'm printing this stuff off for my mechanic to review. If a miracle happens and i gt home tonight, fire it up and she runs like a 2008 model....I'll be sure to let every know.
Bowmaga,
Sounds great........pit and everthing must be nice.
since you have been around tri axles and probably some heavey equip this is just one more piece
of iron to contend with.
Good luck and let us know what you find out There have been 3 or 4 posts so far this spring
of airing up problems Seems like bus school has started
Skip
it will be nice if we can figure it out and fix it. I will definitely let everyone know what the scoop is. Don't worry, I'll be back with more questions....a lot more questions. For now, this week, I'm going to concentrate on the interior, windows and water tanks. I'll be back.
OK, I think I figured out how the tag axles valves work, and what position they should be in. I have a picture attached that shows the solenoids just down line from the valves. I have a dump air switch on my dash to dump the air out of the tags to get traction. Would these solenoids go to that? or what do they go to, cause one solenoids wires doesn't go anywhere. The dark thing on the wire and solenoid to the right, is the rubber cap to the solenoid. I can't seem to see where that loose wire goes? does it go to the other solenoid? Also, when I plugged the air compressor into the land line air connection and filled her up, she did the same thing..... curb side aired up strong, drivers side not so strong, but it appears its all in the drivers side rear that is not airing up completely. Front looks to be getting good air on drivers side, but drivers rear is squatting real bad, which i think is also pulling the drivers front down. Anybody have this happen or know where i should dig into first, in the rear, to try to resolve this problem?
Hello bowmaga.
That picture appears to be of the tag fender, just inside the curbside, side engine access door?
That is an unconventional install, the solenoids for reducing the air pressure to the tag bellows is mounted up on the bukhead, above/behind the engine, reached down through the hole in the floor outside the washroom door.
Are they solenoids, or pressure switches? Looks to be tee'd in...
Seized tag axle shafts are common, the last owner didn't bother greasing all the zerks, or didn't know.
A pit is a busnuts best friend!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Keep in mind that the front is leveled by the rear drive axle leveling valves. The front is on one leveling valve that controls front ride height only. Like a tripod.
Your pix show low-pressure switches. They aren't solenoids.
They control the tag idiot lights.
The tags are usually controlled by a pair of regulators that are set to 35 lbs. The tags always run the same pressure. They don't level per-se.
A damaged, flat for whatever reason, tag bag would not have much effect on the ride level.
There should be a couple of valves just to the right of the pressure switches. Those control tag inflate or deflate. You can tell when a tag is inflated by reaching behind the tag wheel and feeling it up....be gentle. ;)
A few MC9s had dump valves controlled from the dash...but they only dumped air. Didn't lift the tags. The electric solenoid valves are usually under the bus...betweent the regulator and the tag bag. If they are still there at all.
Unfortunately, tags that won't move are stuck in the axle tube. Grease the hell out of both tag tubes and drive a little and see what happens. That is a tough item to fix if they don't free up with minimal help.
Keep in mind that your bus has air beams. you may have a leak on the top of the failed side.
This might be hard to hear because it's exhausting beneath the floor. A leak would also cause the air compressor to cycle frequently and the bus would bleed off air quickly when shut down.
That isn't so hard to fix ....block off plates will solve the air-beam "blues" problem.
What corner has the new air bags? They should be obvious? Hope it isn't the sagging corner?
JR
No, the opposite tag Axel got the new air bag. I could see it tonight when i did some investigating and feeling her up. All the other bags look the same, double donut looking bags, and the tag on the curb side has is just a straight sided bag. The drivers rear corner is the sagger. When sitting in my driver way, aired up from my compressor, the curb sides airs up enough to left the tag off the ground 3"-4". Drivers side tag is still barely touching the ground. It looks like its getting air....just not enough. Can the drive axle leveling valves in the rear fix this problem. Can they be adjusted?
Are the air beams on an MC9 connected? My bus seems to hold air for quite a few days before retreating down to her lowest position? And i can't hear any leaks.
This not being level will bug me until i get her fixed. She looks like she has hydraulics under her going down the road....front right corner up, back rear left corner riding low.....looks like if she leans any more she'll just roll over and play dead.
My next question is that I "think" I've read...The rear leveling valves are above each end of the drive axle (in front of the air bags). Each valve will have a linkage that attaches to the axle. If my drivers side rear is sagging low but getting air....can i adjust these valves to make it right? Anyone know how, anyone done it before?
Bowmaga,
pages 12-7 through 12-11 in the maint. manual.
Sorry but I have never had to adjust my levelers.
Skip
Leveling valves do not control tag axle air bags, only drive axle air bags. You said curbside tag clears the ground when drive axle airbags are inflated. This should not happen. Either you have a stuck tag axle or not enough air in the tag axle air bags. Tag alxe air bags should have 35 PSI. Jack
I'm an idiot! With that said, take the rest of this with a grain of salt :D. Reading through the entire thread again and pondering all that you've described, it sounds like your tag axle is definitely hanging up. Even with flat bags it should be sitting on the ground when the rest of the bus is aired up. I suspect it corroded in place from lack of greasing and sitting too long. (Secretary spread ;)) The second thing that you appear to have described is a bent or rusted up leveling linkage on the driver's side. Don't worry about the front at this point, it only goes up and down, not side to side. Leaning is controlled at the drive axle, but you've probably figured that out already from all the wonderful comments previously posted. ;D Worry about the tag dropping second, after you get the lean situation sorted out at the drive axle. The leaning will be a lot simpler to fix than the hung up tag. Good luck and don't give up, we're all pulling for you :P
Will
Quote from: PP on April 22, 2008, 06:36:09 PM
I'm an idiot! With that said, take the rest of this with a grain of salt :D. Reading through the entire thread again and pondering all that you've described, it sounds like your tag axle is definitely hanging up. Even with flat bags it should be sitting on the ground when the rest of the bus is aired up. I suspect it corroded in place from lack of greasing and sitting too long. (Secretary spread ;)) The second thing that you appear to have described is a bent or rusted up leveling linkage on the driver's side. Don't worry about the front at this point, it only goes up and down, not side to side. Leaning is controlled at the drive axle, but you've probably figured that out already from all the wonderful comments previously posted. ;D Worry about the tag dropping second, after you get the lean situation sorted out at the drive axle. The leaning will be a lot simpler to fix than the hung up tag. Good luck and don't give up, we're all pulling for you :P
Will
I agree with everything you have said except I think the tag axle should be repaired first. If it is down on the passenger side and up on the driver side, that could cause the bus to tilt toward the driver.
Richard
Quote "I agree with everything you have said except I think the tag axle should be repaired first. If it is down on the passenger side and up on the driver side, that could cause the bus to tilt toward the driver."
"Richard" Unquote
Thanks Richard, but wouldn't it lean even before he aired it up if it was a seized tag axle causing the lean? ???
Quote from: PP on April 22, 2008, 06:45:48 PM
Quote "I agree with everything you have said except I think the tag axle should be repaired first. If it is down on the passenger side and up on the driver side, that could cause the bus to tilt toward the driver."
"Richard" Unquote
Thanks Richard, but wouldn't it lean even before he aired it up if it was a seized tag axle causing the lean? ???
I am under the impression that one side of the tag axle is stuck in the up position, therefore not carrying its share of the weight on that side and causing the coach to tilt in that direction. It will be interesting to find out what the problem really is.
Richard
Richard
Quote"When sitting in my driver way, aired up from my compressor, the curb sides airs up enough to left the tag off the ground 3"-4". Drivers side tag is still barely touching the ground"unquote
Richard
After re-reading Bowmaga's statement, it sounds like the curbside, which is airing up properly, is lifting the tag up off the ground, while on the low side the tag is just barely touching the ground. I don't think ( :D) the tag is having any effect on the leaning situation. In fact, I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that it's the leveling linkage. But like you, I'm dying of curiosity to hear what the end result is. :) Will
Quote from: PP on April 22, 2008, 07:17:08 PM
Quote"When sitting in my driver way, aired up from my compressor, the curb sides airs up enough to left the tag off the ground 3"-4". Drivers side tag is still barely touching the ground"unquote
Richard
After re-reading Bowmaga's statement, it sounds like the curbside, which is airing up properly, is lifting the tag up off the ground, while on the low side the tag is just barely touching the ground. I don't think ( :D) the tag is having any effect on the leaning situation. In fact, I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that it's the leveling linkage. But like you, I'm dying of curiosity to hear what the end result is. :) Will
One thing for sure, I never had that problem with my Eagle. LOL
Richard
Quote from: PP on April 22, 2008, 06:45:48 PM
Quote "I agree with everything you have said except I think the tag axle should be repaired first. If it is down on the passenger side and up on the driver side, that could cause the bus to tilt toward the driver."
"Richard" Unquote
Thanks Richard, but wouldn't it lean even before he aired it up if it was a seized tag axle causing the lean? ???
I agree with everyone...however, I'd repair the tags first because that could be a showstopper. The hanging tag, and it is stuck big-time if it won't stay on the ground when the drive is aired up, will be much more difficult repair. The repair may require replacement of the tag axle assembly.
The leaning is going to be easy to repair. The fact that it's been kicked around so much is not related to the minor issue it presents.
Repairing the tags could be major (as in $$$) work. Very likely it will be. Even if they are worked loose, they may have so much play and damage to the bearings as to induce "tag-steer" from the rear.
The only reason to attack the leveling first would be to enable moving the bus.
I would suspect air beams...even with rusted air-beams, the pressure will only drop to about 60 lbs and then the accessories are shut off. The bus may sit with the remainder of air for days.
The things that shut down are the air suspension, wipers, AC and blower belt tensioners...etc. The brake system may remain aired for several days. This doesn't indicate that the air suspension isn't leaking. The only way to check for leaks that are not audible is to isolate the problem system and apply air to it. It'll become quickly obvious what leaks. Air beams are notorious for leaking, but no audible sign of leaking is presented. Air bags will also seep quietly. However, they can be soaked with children's bubble solution and the leaks become apparent. Air bags don't often lead so bad as to prevent leveling. Air beams can, and so can leveling valves.
If the lines must be removed from the leveling valves, the leveling valves should be replaced. They are cheap.
The adjustment is nothing more than adjusting the arms to set the bus chassis to a specified dimension between the drive axle and the chassis on each side. If the arm is moved, the bus will move. It's easy to adjust if you're in a pit. The bus must be aired up and should be sitting on its wheels. Do not level to the ground...level to the drive axle.
The drive axle air beams are not tied together...the front air beams are tied together. The front uses one leveling valve. The drive axle uses two, one for each side which handles all side-to-side leveling. As Jack Conrad accurately discribed, the tags are set for 35 lbs (should be), and are only weight bearing. Tags don't effect leveling. Unless they are stuck down...then they could hold the bus up.
They'll usually lift off the ground when stuck...which is a bad situation.
You might want to start looking for a donor MC9 tag axle assembly. Definitely want a used assembly that is in known good condition. Just cut the old tag tube in half and drag the whole assembly out.
Don't mean to paint a bleak picture, but this tag thing is a problem. Makes one wonder how much grease the service brakes, steering, and other lube points may have received?
Good luck, JR
Greg -- I hope you're still alive and haven't "thrown yourself under the bus." You sound like you're sitting in the bus bathroom talking to a shot-gun! lol
We have a lot of work to do on Betty this weekend. Let's just hope I still have (2) arms, (2) legs and my man parts after crawling under the bus with 24-tons of bottle jacks. I've read everyone's "warnings" and I take them all EXTREMELY seriously.
Let's just hope there is some good bus news to share Sunday morning.
Dan A.
Everyone, that last respone is owner #2 of 4 owners on super Betty. He's the driver, engine maintenance, and electrical mastermind of the bus. Unfortunately we've never needed a suspension department in our previous little bus world so myself and Danny are going to see if we can learn the hard way. This weekend we are going to work on the tags in my driveway, grease them up, and work them slowly up and down until they move on their own. I've read where guys have done this and it has worked. Hopefully for us it will to. And to answer speculations to everyones thoughts from my ramblings. The tags are stuck up for sure...both sides. As for the drive axles bags. The curbs sides airs up real good, but the drivers side only airs up a little, hence giving the girl a low rear right side corner, keeping that side tag closer to the ground than the curb side tag...when aired up. I have 6x6 blocking, 2x12's, and others misc 2x's for blocking along with some new 12 ton bottle jacks. We'll see what we can get done this Saturday, for our first monster bus weekend with super Betty. you boys better have your computers on. I'll either have questions, bad news or good news to tell. I'm sure all 3, along with more wtf are these pictures....which I see has gotten very far off course!
After you grease the tag axles (2 zerks on the center cross over tube on each side and 1 zerks on each half the the clamp ring on each side), drive the bus so the tag axles ride over a small curb or several stacked 2Xs to work the axle up & down (and hopefully free it up). Jack
May I recommend a major-mojo powered grease gun. Something that will really force grease where none has been for a long time! A hand gun may work, but if it doesn't, there are othe options.
Do you have any sort of anchor point in the ground to which you could chain the tag axle arm near the spindle while the bus is deflated? Then air up the bus. That'll put several tons of 'effort' into moving the tags. Those airbags create a lot of force. The tag bags don't, but the drive axle does. Using the air suspension for movement would be a sight easier than jacking with bottle jacks. The bottle jack handles are going to need a good 'extension' such as a piece of pipe about 3' long.
Your list of supplies looks pretty good....but something's missing. How you gonna get bus work done without suitable adult beverages? Back to the store! ;D
Where are you and your bus located?
Hope you get that sucker free'ed up. Still, as long as you have good help, the problem can be resolved.
Ya'll's be careful when working under that bus!
JR
Hello.
You know me, looking for the simple stuff...
The tag axles aren't chained up, are they?
Otherwise, carry on with the scheduled programming!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
The bus and myself are located in Archbold, Ohio. Very Northwest Ohio, in Fulton county. I grew up in Williams county which is in the corner of the state. The other 3 owners are city kids from Toledo. If anyone wants to work on a bus, you are more than welcome to show up.
Not really any good way of anchoring them to the my concrete drive. I couldn't do anything tough enough at this point. Just going to have to take some man handling it.
Nope, bus isn't chained up, when I first learned that could be the probelm, I hoped and prayed thats what is was....but nope. no chains....just stuck
Hmmmm...that's a pretty good jaunt from Charlotte. Sounds like you have good help anyway!
For a chain point you could get a big ole steel beam...drive the drive axle up on one end, and park mama's car on the other? ::) As long as she's not looking!
Then you got something to chain the tag to. Tighten the chain and air up the drive air bags.
Another idea...do you have access to an industrial strength Port-0-Power? The advantage of a Port-o-Power is that you can get back from the 'process' in the event something really gives...or breaks off...or slips and flies out.
Post pix of what ya'll do. And be careful!
JR
OK boys, 9:15 on Friday night....and what have I been doing the past 3 hours....trying to figure out my bus. I aired it up, backed it out onto the road, moved it around, back it back in to the spot in front of the garage to begin her make over....and she's still leaning to the left. Right side...airs up good. Driver side....not so much. I contacted the previous owner who finally talked to me, and I was wrong about the recently replaced air bag location....its in the front drivers side. The tag curbside rear was replace a while ago, while it was owned by a prior limo company. Anyway...I got to looking....and thinking....and drinking. I got out a bottle jack and some blocks and thought i would try to lift the driver side body to shift the weight back over center so she didn't lean. I placed a block under the back corner of the cargo compartment, in front of the drivers drive tire. Started to lift slowly....and that's when i heard the hisssssssssssssssssssss. I think the drive axle air bags on the driver side are not airing up as i thought they were...at least getting a little air, i think they are leaking. I don't know..would doing what i did, take pressure off the bag allowing them to show their leak? You know, compressed they wouldn't as much as uncompressed by my lift the body? Any way, what will it take to replace the two bags on the drive axle? what would it cost? can i do it? has anyone else done it? The depression is slowly setting back in....i think i need another case of beer. The other guys show up tomorrow morning...i haven't told them about my undesirable findings yet. They'll be super happy.
You can replace air bags. No fun, but it's doable. Don't do anything until you soap up the bags and establish what's leaking. I've replaced both drive and steer on my MC9.
Get ready to bend some wrenches for access to difficult nuts.
If your drive axle airbags are leaking, I'd recommend going ahead with a block-off kit and do both sides. And new leveling valves on both sides.
Another point...jacking on the body is a no-no. You'll cave in some expensive metal...if that's really what you are jacking on...? Look on the front of the vertical steel post located in front of the drive axle....there's a small plate that sticks out on the front of the post. That's the jack point for the rear of the bus.
Cheers, JR
can i ask roughly what all that replacing set you back? Just to give me more reasons to drink? And everythink seems impossible to work on from my concrete drive way.....you just can't get under this thing. Even if i backed up on my ramps i have constructed, that's only 8" more. I know that jacking on the body is a no no, but i wanted to level the body not left the axle. There has to be some place you should be able to level the body with a jack. And i sit here and ask myself once again....wtf was I thinking.
If you lifted the body (and you shouldn't really do it like that) and air started hissing out just inboard of that wheel, it means that the height control valve detected that the body was high and let air out of the bag on that corner to try and get the height correct.
Two possibilities - either that side height valve actuating rod has been bent or adjusted wrongly to lower the set height on that side OR the other side height valve has failed open and is pumping the bags up to full height.
You would need to check the ride heights to determine which one.
"When the air bags are working normally, jacking the bus to remove wheels is easy. Air it up, just set the jack under the jack point, extend so that it is against the jack point, and bleed the air out of the bus. It'll give you 5" of jacking without any effort. Don't jack on the axles unless the air is bled out and the bus body is jacked up.
JR"
I don't understand this. Those jacking points are attached to the suspension below the airbags, so how can airing up and then putting the jacks under the jacking point assist with raising the axle?
Quote from: Tony LEE on April 26, 2008, 07:43:08 AM
"When the air bags are working normally, jacking the bus to remove wheels is easy. Air it up, just set the jack under the jack point, extend so that it is against the jack point, and bleed the air out of the bus. It'll give you 5" of jacking without any effort. Don't jack on the axles unless the air is bled out and the bus body is jacked up.
JR"
I don't understand this. Those jacking points are attached to the suspension below the airbags, so how can airing up and then putting the jacks under the jacking point assist with raising the axle?
What I'm describing is airing up the bus to its normal ride height. Then place a jack under each jack point and snug up the jacks. No effort so far.
Now bleed the air from the suspension and you just essentially took the weight off the drive wheels and the bus is jacked up 5" higher than at rest with no air....even with the weight of the coach off the drive axle, the wheels are still on the ground, but all you need to remove the wheels is a small bottle jack under the suspension....only the weight of the axle (not the coach) is on the drive wheels.
Jacking the axle up to remove the wheels only requires an inch or so of easy jacking.
What this amounts to is saving the labor to jack the coach off the axle....I've done it from an un-aired
position, and used the aired up method. Airing it up first is much easier.
Bowmaga, the cost of a conversion kit, I believe, which would include 4 blockoffs and four new style airbags is in the $500 range.
Mohawk offers these kits. Mine cost $120 bucks times 4 to replace the bags on the drive axle. I've got an '87, which has different suspension from yours...no airbeams. The later bags are easier to replace too.
I'd recommend locating the source of the leak. Tony Lee made a good suggestion...but whatever is leaking should be ID'd before throwing bucks at it.
If you are jacking on a residential driveway, get a piece of 1/2" steel plate about a foot square to jack on. The jack may go thru the concrete...? I wouldn't get under the bus or between any components while the bus is jacked up on a drive way and resting on jacks. Use this idea at your own risk, but I use a good condition 2' long piece of cross-tie slid beneath the post located between the drive and tag wheels. They'll safety the rear of the coach. Jack stands are not useful for low height jacking. And there's no place on the body proper to block for safety.
You won't have to get under the bus to get the airbags or leveling valves off. They can be accessed once the drive wheels are removed.
Airbeam airbags are ball-busters to change. Still, it isn't technical...just a lot of bolts and a lot of knuckle work. Get a case of PB Blaster penetrating lubricant...you'll probably need it. And anti-depressants. They'll be a handy chaser for your adult beverages.
This is all totally doable. Just a good bit of work.
Try to understand what's leaking before you start removing components.
You could remove the drive axle wheels on the bad side, disconnect the air supply line at the air beams (the air beams have common fittings, the levelers have odd fittings), block off the leveling valve air line end. Install a fitting so that you can attach shop air to the airbeam. Reinstall the inner dual, snug it up, and add upwards to 60 lbs of air to the airbeams. If the bus levels and doesn't leak down...the airbeams/bags are working. Don't add more than 60 lbs of air to the air beams. Watch the pressure or you may create additional leaks.
If the beams check out, the next place to look at is the leveling valve. There's a check valve and tiny filter on the leveling valve...and the fittings are proprietary so take care not to damage the fittings and lines. Checking a leveling valve really consists of replacement and and setting the adjustment. A pit would be great for this.
Use a shop air compressor so that the engine doesn't have to run while evaluating for leaks...a regulator in the supply air line set at 100 lbs will protect the bus from too much air pressure.
Do you have a curb, or low place where you could back the bus so that the rear is hanging over the edge? Keep the tags on the curb. This would allow you to safely get beneath the bus and check the leveling valve. If you have access to a pit, the leveling valve could be checked by removing the link from the axle and simply moving the arm. It'll inflate and deflate the bags as it's articulated. As Tony said, the link may be damaged, or the valve is no longer correctly calibrated...or it may be as simple as the bolts on the arm have loosened or one bolt has fallen off.
Check https://www.mohawkmfg.com/ or US Coach for parts.
I apologize for being so wordy here...to make this easier...look at Craig's (Gumpydog) excellent website. He has a pictorial describing airbag replacement on an MCI airbeam MC9. Craig's site will show exactly what you are going to get into. I should'a said this first? ???
Good luck, JR
well, bus day 1 done....and I'd say super Betty won today. She's up on blocks...the interior is gutted 98%, and we did get the muffler replaced today. That doesn't seem much, but its a start. We did start greasing...and greasing everything, but its hard to tell if the zirts are taking good grease with my air greaser....I need to get my dads old hand pump so i can feel it go in. As for the tag axle issue. We WERE going to accomplish that this weekend. I wanted to take the tire off just so we could work on it easier....yea....thats not gonna happen. I got 2 of the ten nuts off. no 3/4" or 1"" impact could get them or a breaker bar with 5' pipe and a 220 lb me cranking on it. She is on big frustrating piece of steel. I did get brave enough to slide under her and start trying to figure things out....i found the rear leveling valves....but can't do anything with them, they don't move and I can't see how to adjust them. Also, back in the beginning of this posting, someone told me about a valve inside that had something to do with the tag axle air bag pressure. Well we can't find the valve....but we did find a 1/4" brass line cut off and covered with a piece of duct tape....that was leaking air. This would have been located to the right of the original shatter, maybe under the sink. This 1/4" line t'd into a line that went else where. The tag axle air bags are getting air...its just not dropping down. Its stuck and we just need to get it yanked down, but haven't figured out a good way of doing that. There isn't much above it to pry down on and you can't just pull it down, and even if I could, I feel as if I would be pulling against the drive axle air bags and might hurt them? Could that happen?
So after today, the bus still leans to the drivers rear corner, The drivers rear drive axle bags kind of get air but not a lot. The tag axle bags are getting air but its just stuck up in the air and won't drop down. The tag axle wheel lug nuts pretty much won't come off. I need a REALLY big compressor. My 5hp 135psi isn't gonna make it happen. I may have to drive it into to town to a local shop and see if they can break them loose....in my spare time. ha. The curb side front and rear air up real good. And I think i found what used to be a valve...inside.
NOW WHAT?!?!?
Greg.... remember... those lugnuts on the drivers side are left hand thread....
;D
Before you remove that tag wheel, order ten new studs and nut and have the necessary tools to pull the hub and change the studs. If you can't remove the nuts with 1100 foot pounds or a 1" impact, they have to be replaced as they are stretched beyond their elastic limit. It is very important that wheels don't fall off when you are driving.
Have you searched this site for info on leveling valves? They are discussed so often, there must be a ton of information on them. If you don't have a maintenance manual and parts book you are fighting a losing battle. If you do have one, study up on a project before you start.
Thanks jr., thats the stuff what I need to know. Don't ever worry about being to wordy....Id rather you be that than to vague!
I figured out the threading mystery about anhour into the process. I'll work on it more this week and keep everyont posted.
well, I got two more lug nuts off the tag drivers side tire tonight....I give up. Tommorrow there will be a nice big truck show up with a really big air compressor and a guy who will be able to bust the nuts loose in about 10 minutes. $25.....I just wish i would have called him saturday! Tonight, I slid under the bus and emptied the air tanks. Then shut everything up, re-attached the air to the back of the bus and began to air it up again. She started to look a little different....she's starting to level up, left to right in the rear. She's now less than two inches out of level, and I think part of that might be in my driveway. I think airing it up and down is loosening things up and making things work. Tomorrow I'm crawling under her, and I'm going to spray about 2 cans of pb oil on anything that looks like it is supposed to move. I think spraying the leveling valves will make her level out completely. I'm feeling positive...I'm feeling positive.
Now, can some one tell me, or send me picture of what the air valve inside, back by the bathroom is supposed to look like? I think it controls pressure going into the tag bags. Mine isn't there anymore, previous owners cut it off and duct taped over the cut off pipe. Do I need this valve, or can I cap the line and forget about it, can I move the valve into the engine bay? Talk to me bussers.
Forget the ground. The bus ain't that smart! ;)
Keep in mind that the bus doesn't do "level" to the ground. It levels to the position of the drive axle. If a drive wheel is in a hole, the bus body is going follow the drive axle into the hole. Period.
The dimension between the wheels and the wheel wells tells the story.
You'll have to buy one of those 'big Kahuna' el cheapo 10 HP air compressors and a 1" impact from Harbor Freight. Their impacts are air hungry, but as long as you use a 3/4" hose and fittings, they'll rip lugnuts off.
As Dallas said, some lugs are LH on the LH street side of MCIs...not all though. There are a good many with RH studs all the way around. I've got one. The studs will have an "L" stamped on the end if LH. Since you removed two, you've got this figured out.
Do you have Budd or hub piloted wheels? Do the drive axles have acorn shaped lug nuts with a square drive head? If you have large automotive looking studs...you have hub piloted wheels...if there are two piece lug nuts and screwed on inner dual studs, you got Budd stud piloted wheels.
Get a torque stick or torque wrench so you can properly reinstall the wheels.
Another thing, the lugs may be difficult to remove...that isn't unusual. If the studs are in good condition, they may be fine. Removing a nut from a torqued stud will always require more...sometimes a lot more, torque to remove. May seem as though the lugnut was overtorqued, when they may have been properly installed.
No harm in changing them out either.
That mysterious air line may be the bathroom flush line? They were air operated. Cap it off and see what doesn't work...if anything. Do you have a pix of the offending airline?
JR
The tag tires are off the bus.....one step closer to possible levelness. I got under the bus tonight after i aired it up and sprayed the levelers down with penetrating oil. hopefully that will loosen them up. Attached are pictures of what it looks like with the tag tires off. Haven't figured out a great way of getting in and prying the tag down with a big cheater bar. There is only one spot between the tag beam and the bus frame to get a bar into and pry down and its pretty close to the pivot point. The inner liner covers everything up. I think i may pull the shocks off and replace them while the tires are off. They look awful rusty and maybe they are what is froze up also, maybe part of the problem?? The 3rd picture is of the airlines that used to go to the bus bathroom. The one when the pen sticking out of it is the line blowing all the air out. I plan on just capping this off and forgetting about it. Anyone see a problem with that? Hopefully i will get a couple more tubes of grease in her over the next few days and get them working up and down. My grass is growing fast and my house projects still aren't done so I have to split my time wisely. My wonderful wife feels that the bathroom in super Betty isn't near as important as putting her masterbath back together! Picking up all eight of my water tanks Thursday!
In that last picture right there.
those lines went to the door closer and tank rinse for the restroom.
cap them off in the engine bay.
good, that's what i wanted to hear about those air lines. The next thing i need is the air switch to the belt tightener above the engine in the back. Its the only other thing i can find so far.....so far, that is leaking air. I hope once these tow items are fixed...she magically she air up level as the first day she was driven! Then on to my tag axles.....if they would just bust loose. Next big work day is this sunday...my house if anyone is bored and looking for a bus ride to somewhere.
Have you considered overpressurizing the tag axle air bags? Those things create a quantum bit more downward pressure than you'll ever make with a prybar.
If you choose to use this method of calculated destruction, you'll need some ground rules.
The first process would be to attach an air line and regulator to the tag axle air bag, one side at a time. The regulator and operator should be behind the bus, away from the subject tag bag.
Once you have a regulated air supply attached to one tag-bag, clear all pets (including children) and helpers away from areas lateral to the wheel well.
If you have good airbags, you'll be able to exert several thousand lbs of downward pressure on the tag axle arms.
The tags generally operate at 35 lbs of pressure. You could double that with good bags to maximize the applied force. In any event, the regulator will allow you to control the air pressure. At least you're not going to blow out an airbeam or any such item.
This process could catastrophically damage the tag bag. DO NOT OVERPRESSURIZE THE COACH AIR SYSTEM....only one tag bag at a time. I say that loudly for a reason. One tag air bag at a time should be worked with.
If the tags are forced down, you'll have to jack them back up and repeat this process several times and hope that the tag axle frees up. It may. If the bags cannot force the unloaded tags down....bummer. Major bummer. :'( Do you own a 'fire-wrench'?
If it doesn't move with 70 lbs of air in the tag bag, you could try some heat...or well placed explosives. If you use heat, make sure that you deflate the tag bag before you start. Using heat will damage the tag axle tube seals. So that begats another major problem...ad infinitum.
Keep in mind that the tag bag could rupture and require replacement. Anyone near the bag could be subject to death and dismemberment...and be hurt really bad. Don't let Bubba sit beside the tags and watch the progress while you add air pressure.
A good safety may be to loosely remount the tag wheel with two opposed lugnuts. That way the bags cannot damage the tag axle stop if it suddenly works loose. The tire would also block matter from firing out of the wheel well...into your neighbors front window.. :o
If you try this (at your own risk, of course), make sure that the block beneath the tag (in your picture) is removed...reinstalling the tag wheel will solve that problem.
Incogneeter 8)
More bad news. While you're under there, you may wish to replace the upper RH radius rod bushing. Looks like it's shifted a little.
They should be, and stay, centered. If a rod moves forward of the centerline, the busing is worn out. Just the busing requires replacement....generally. If it's been driven for long periods with bad bushings, the radius rods will "egg" out and then gotta be repaired or replaced.
Soak those shock mount bolts with PB blaster. It doesn't hurt to heat the shock bolt a little. Let it cool. Heat it up. Do this thru several cycles and it may zap right out with an impact wrench and a 6 point impact socket. If using the ole fire wrench, keep an extinguisher handy...garden hose works fine to that sort of issue. The rubber bushings in the shocks will burn if hot enough.
If you manage to get the shock bushing burning, lots of water will put it out. But you gotta stay with it. Rubber and urethane parts are sorta hard to extinguish. Got to get them cooled down. Then the problem is solved.
JR
Be nice to the shock mount bolts. You could find that the shock mount is gone....more or less.
Interesting problem.
Quote from: NJT5047 on April 29, 2008, 08:06:13 PM
Keep in mind that the tag bag could rupture and require replacement. Anyone near the bag could be subject to death and dismemberment...and be hurt really bad. Don't let Bubba sit beside the tags and watch the progress while you add air pressure.
A good idea here would be to set up a large mirror so you can watch what's happening while you're standing behind the coach.
Dunno why no one's mentioned it before, but if you can reach the leveling valve linkage with a broomstick or similar while standing next to the bus, you should be able to move the valve's arm up/down to see if it actually adds/releases air. Simple troubleshooting tip. . . if the linkage is accessible.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
You say i should be able to move the linkage, but i think thats impossible. I can reach it, no problem, but the valve arm is attached to a 3/8" x 1" bar that is bolted to the axel. unless that bar moves with the axel that valve isn't moving....or am I not understanding how this whole leveling valve actually works with the bus.
As for the tag. I think i'm just going to remove the shocks and replace them while I have the tires off. I'll get those axle's to move up and down one way or another. I don;t think I have the smarts or the know how at this point to unhook and hook up pressurized air to each tag bag. I will try the hard way first...pry bar, blocking, grease, jacks, some cuss words, a little praying and some beer.....well a lot of beer.
I'm going to encourage you to work out your levellers and tag air supply. I have read the whole thread, and while i don't know MCIs (or much about buses really) I do know that not working out how a system works is a good way of getting caught with your pants down later on (and besides your are on a concrete pad in your driveway, how much better could it get. From what I can tell from this thread it is possible that your tags are not getting any air....when you air up the bus do you see/feel more tension in the tag bags? If you don't you need to work that out before even deciding to go further. Also remember soemtimes there are very simple solutions and online forums while well meaning can complicate simple problems...when all is said and done you are doing the diagnosis. I just had another thought, you have different air bags L and R on the rear drives that may not be helping the levellers do their job either. Like I said I don't know much, but from here it looks like there could be simple solutions (change/adjust the levellers etc..) and while buses are a bit of a bear to work on they really are just big cars that need big tools to do the job... Good luck with that.
p.s. I suggest a nice 3/4" impact driver , can't see how to work on a bus without one.
Quote from: chazwood on April 18, 2008, 07:08:12 PM
I do notice that if she's been sitting for a week or so and I take off as soon as the low air light flicks off (90 psi.) and I don't let it get up to 120 pounds pressure for a little bit... she's more prone to lean.
Chazwood -Just because the light flicks off doesn't mean that the air system is full, that only happens when the governor pops off at around 120 psi.
The reason you're seeing your coach still leaning more if you drive off that early is because the suspension is supplied air from the aux tank up front, under the driver - which also happens to be the very last tank in the system to be fully pressurized.
Another problem you might encounter by attempting to drive away when the low air light flicks off is that your parking brake won't disengage. DD3s like to have plenty of air applied to them for release, and sometimes that additional 30 lbs of psi is the difference between driving away and getting frustrated.
On another note, if you're driving away when the air pressure light flickers off, it clues me into the fact you're not doing a proper pre-trip inspection before moving the coach. Sorry, but for an old driver trainer, this is one thing that bugs me about most busnuts who haven't spent any real time in the transportation industry - their failure to do a proper pre-trip before driving a fifteen-ton vehicle.
If you don't know what a proper pre-trip entails, read this:
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16203.html?1167072614
Sorry to hijack this thread somewhat, but the line quoted above caught my attention, and I had to respond, based on "What Price Safety???"
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
uh...that last one goes in a different thread....I think. But thanks. I haven't driven it off since its gotten to my house!!
I am definitely getting air in the tag bags. I'm getting air in all the bags, all the way around. I can inflate and deflate the tag bags from the rear air valves...check. The drive axle bags on both sides are getting good air and i can't hear any leaks. Right now...she's a lot better than what she was. She is less than 2" out of level when aired up. I think the rest of the unlevelness is just in the levelers. As for the tag axle. She is stuck, I assume from sitting and rusting fast. I will take the shocks off and start working it over the next few days. My situation has gotten a lot better from my intial cry out for help, a little better. I think mostly airing it up and down has gotten things moving again and working better. I will keep eveyone posted what happens if i get tag axles loose and working properly. Thanks for all the input. I always like to read up what people are thinking, cause i mostly don't know what to think. 3/4" impact...got it, it didn't do any good. But local trucking company truck with monster air compressor worked just fine.
Quote from: bowmaga on April 30, 2008, 06:16:54 AM
You say i should be able to move the linkage, but i think thats impossible. I can reach it, no problem, but the valve arm is attached to a 3/8" x 1" bar that is bolted to the axel. unless that bar moves with the axel that valve isn't moving....or am I not understanding how this whole leveling valve actually works with the bus.
As for the tag. I think i'm just going to remove the shocks and replace them while I have the tires off. I'll get those axle's to move up and down one way or another. I don;t think I have the smarts or the know how at this point to unhook and hook up pressurized air to each tag bag. I will try the hard way first...pry bar, blocking, grease, jacks, some cuss words, a little praying and some beer.....well a lot of beer.
Being the kind and supportive soul that I am ;), I'm going to actively assist your efforts by drinking some beer and offering up some choice cuss words to the bus'n gods. I'll be happy to repeat this offering as required until satisfactory results are noted. :P
Hope this helps!
BTW, the leveling valve linkage will have to be removed from the axle if you want to move it with a broomstick. A good idea, but they may have to be readjusted when you hook back up. Probably needs adjusting anyway. Definitely will if you replace the leveling valves. I recommend leveling valve replacement since you're so close to them anyway.
Different airbags on opposite sides would not have negative effects on leveling. If the leveling valve is adjusted correctly, it'll apply whatever is necessary to bring the bus up to level. Each drive axle leveling valve is independent of the other side.
JR
Quote from: Russ on April 30, 2008, 09:04:36 AM
Quote from: chazwood on April 18, 2008, 07:08:12 PM
I do notice that if she's been sitting for a week or so and I take off as soon as the low air light flicks off (90 psi.) and I don't let it get up to 120 pounds pressure for a little bit... she's more prone to lean.
Chazwood -
Just because the light flicks off doesn't mean that the air system is full, that only happens when the governor pops off at around 120 psi.
The reason you're seeing your coach still leaning more if you drive off that early is because the suspension is supplied air from the aux tank up front, under the driver - which also happens to be the very last tank in the system to be fully pressurized.
Another problem you might encounter by attempting to drive away when the low air light flicks off is that your parking brake won't disengage. DD3s like to have plenty of air applied to them for release, and sometimes that additional 30 lbs of psi is the difference between driving away and getting frustrated.
On another note, if you're driving away when the air pressure light flickers off, it clues me into the fact you're not doing a proper pre-trip inspection before moving the coach. Sorry, but for an old driver trainer, this is one thing that bugs me about most busnuts who haven't spent any real time in the transportation industry - their failure to do a proper pre-trip before driving a fifteen-ton vehicle.
If you don't know what a proper pre-trip entails, read this:
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16203.html?1167072614
Sorry to hijack this thread somewhat, but the line quoted above caught my attention, and I had to respond, based on "What Price Safety???"
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
And here I thought I was doing a good job of pointing out that taking off too soon was a bad habit. ;D
You know me....Mr. "What not to do"
Actually, what I find myself doing is (on the day of departure) about 4 or 5 hours before we leave, I start the bus and run down thru my checklist. I do this in case there is a problem. This way I still have time to fix it.
When departure time finally comes.......(remember, I have 8 people to get out'a dodge :P) I fire her up and take off.
Sitting around for half a day will bleed her air pressure down a little and I don't feel like waiting until she blows..... before we goes.
Thanks,
Chazwood.
Quote from: NJT5047 on April 26, 2008, 06:45:50 PM
Quote from: Tony LEE on April 26, 2008, 07:43:08 AM
"When the air bags are working normally, jacking the bus to remove wheels is easy. Air it up, just set the jack under the jack point, extend so that it is against the jack point, and bleed the air out of the bus. It'll give you 5" of jacking without any effort. Don't jack on the axles unless the air is bled out and the bus body is jacked up.
JR"
I don't understand this. Those jacking points are attached to the suspension below the airbags, so how can airing up and then putting the jacks under the jacking point assist with raising the axle?
What I'm describing is airing up the bus to its normal ride height. Then place a jack under each jack point and snug up the jacks. No effort so far.
Now bleed the air from the suspension and you just essentially took the weight off the drive wheels and the bus is jacked up 5" higher than at rest with no air....even with the weight of the coach off the drive axle, the wheels are still on the ground, but all you need to remove the wheels is a small bottle jack under the suspension....only the weight of the axle (not the coach) is on the drive wheels.
Jacking the axle up to remove the wheels only requires an inch or so of easy jacking.
What this amounts to is saving the labor to jack the coach off the axle....I've done it from an un-aired
position, and used the aired up method. Airing it up first is much easier.
I can certainly see the logic of this if there are body jacking points, but my understanding is that the vehicle body shouldn't be jacked up anywhere except perhaps at the suspension connection points (meaning the air beam??) - and they are not easy to access with a normal jack.
What jacking points are you putting the jacks under once the bus is aired up to make it easier to raise the axle with a second jack. This point must take the weight of the body because once the air bags are deflated, the suspension is not holding the weight.
I am also curious why using two fully-rated jacks and having to provide adequate ground support for both jacks (because if one fails, the other must support the lot) and then releasing the air from the air bags (how do you do that without modifying the air system???) is really much less work or any safer than using one jack on one base and jacking three inches more on one jack.
Quote from: Tony LEE on May 02, 2008, 10:24:54 AM
I can certainly see the logic of this if there are body jacking points, but my understanding is that the vehicle body shouldn't be jacked up anywhere except perhaps at the suspension connection points (meaning the air beam??) - and they are not easy to access with a normal jack.
What jacking points are you putting the jacks under once the bus is aired up to make it easier to raise the axle with a second jack. This point must take the weight of the body because once the air bags are deflated, the suspension is not holding the weight.
I am also curious why using two fully-rated jacks and having to provide adequate ground support for both jacks (because if one fails, the other must support the lot) and then releasing the air from the air bags (how do you do that without modifying the air system???) is really much less work or any safer than using one jack on one base and jacking three inches more on one jack.
On an MC9, the rear jack points are jacking up the body and 'sprung' weight of the suspension. While the air beams are part of the 'sprung' weight, you're not jacking on the airbeams proper. The airbeams are hollow chambers that form the upper airbag mounts.
When the bus is aired up, the rise gives you about 6" of movement. Placing a jack under the proper jack points and snugging it up holds the body up about 6" higher than an un-aired bus.
Keep in mind that the unsprung components of the suspension are still sitting on the ground.
There's an air drain (line from the compressor trap) inside the LH service door near the tag axle dump valves. The air is easily drained from that drain valve. This point is also where you would want to air up an MC9 with shop air.
With the jack points held up, and the bus air vented off, the front air suspension drop will add another few inches to the rear of the bus too...good for working under the engine...changing filters etc.
Once the bus air is bled off, the unsprung weigh is easy to lift with a small bottle jack.
It is contraindicated that the weight of the coach be lifted from any unsprung component.
When I jack my MC9, I block the post behind the drive axles for safety. I'm not sure that air-beam units have this post. However, the jack post can be blocked next to the jack.
Jacking up an MC9 high enough to remove the drive wheels, using only the jack point to lift a drive wheel, will require about 10" of jacking from an airless position. It'll have to be jacked high enough for the shocks to lift the axle.
I generally place a jack under both rear jack points when jacking the bus so's not to twist the crap out of the body. I really don't know if this could damage the thing, but I'm not going to test it.
I am able to have the drive axle off the floor sufficient to remove the drive wheels in less than 5 minutes and not a lot of work....with two manual 12 ton bottle jacks and two 2 ton jacks. The second jack won't hold the weight of the bus, but it's blocked anyway, so not a problem.
I offer this method for information...however one wishes jack their bus up to remove their wheels is cool by me! Just be careful! :)
As stated prior, jack failure isn't as much an issue as driveway failure. Be very careful with the jacking substrate. Residential driveways are not designed for jacking up buses. Most aren't designed for the weight of a the bus on tires.
Bowmaga, hope you get that tag (s) lubed and cooperating. We're going busing next week, so I'll miss the action...bummer. I'm too cheap to buy one of those 'aircards'... >:(
We're heading over to Denton Farm Park in Denton, NC, for 5 days, then return home for a couple days...wash the bus and fire back down to Fayetteville, NC, to Gene and Darrells KOA bus'n rally. Anyone in the area oughta mosey on down for a fun-filled weekend! ;D ;D ;D :D ::) 8)
Cheers, JR
Sorry JR but that doesn't seem to apply to my MC8 so it must have quite a different suspension arrangement to yours. On mine, the jacking point - the square tube projecting below the front airbag just in front and inboard of the dual wheels is below the airbags so jacking there raises the part of the suspension directly connected to the axle. It maintains the same distance from the ground whether the airbags are inflated or not. Of course jacking there also raises the whole body too because that is supported off the axle via the airbags. As I said, I understand your technique, but first I would need to know where the approved body jacking point. Where is the jacking point that just raises the body (or holds it up when the airbags are deflated) and leaves the axle hanging (unloaded)?
As for letting air out of the airbags, I thought there were non-return valves just prior to each levelling valve. Wouldn't this prevent de-airing the suspension via the inlet in the engine compartment.
-----------------------------------------
Last time I got a new tyre, it was in a small country shop and the installer couldn't work out what was wrong with the jack. Lots of pumping and not much movement - and difficult to see what was going on because it was raining and he didn't want to get down and dirty.
Jack ended up embedded so far in the pavement that the handle couldn't move. Was quite a job to get it out.
On our MC-8, the body jacking point is behind the drive axle where the lower radius rod attaches. No "non-return" valves on our MC-8. Jack
Like Jack says, my MC9 will drop like a rock if the air is bled off.
And, as Tony says, an MC8 may be different from an MC9...an MC8 is definitely different from my MC9. My bus doesn't have airbeams.
I'm gonna post a picture of what I'm talking about. That'll clear up what I'm jacking on. ;)
JR
Ah, that explains it. Both the original poster and I have same vintage MCIs - but different models - so it is good to clear up any confusion. A bit like those with spring parking brakes advising those with DD3s - can cause injury or damage.
well the original poster is back....good news bad news. Good news is..we greased the hell out of everything and everything pretty much has grease to it. 10 tubes of grease pumped into the tag axle zirts. Unbelievable. Bad news....they are still stuck. I don;t think they even moved. We even went so far as to replace grease zirts and we also took the collar off the split washer and the flange key...I just don't know what those things do under that collar? We were under the bus and greased the cross tub where we could and had grease coming out of the end of the axle where the arm assembly meets. The collar wasn't taking grease on the bottom, so that made us dig in farther. We did not take the split washer apart, it seem somewhat OK. We know there is grease back in the bearing tube as it is called, but i think the damn thing is just rusted fast...its not busting loose and I don't know what else to do. Those guys who pryed theirs down....are lucky. No amount of prying will get these down. The only other thing I can think of doing is unhooking the air line to the air bag, unbolting the bag, unbolting the collar again and try to pull it out of the bearing tube, as the manual says to do, manually grease it up and slide it back in and that would probably work....if we can get it out. Then hopefully we could get the air bag hooked back up so it didn't leak. Other than that, it was a beautiful day in northwest Ohio. She is one big frustrating piece of steel. She is a lot more level than she was....still at least an 1" or 2" out of level, but I think I will try to adjust the leveling valves next to see if i can get the rest out. I think the girl has been sitting so long, leaning to that back left corner, she's kind of "grown" into that position. Anyone else have any other ideas?? Other than a forsale sign...I've thought of that several hundred times myself.
If you are gonna remove the airbags anyway, you might as well see about changing them out... just cheap insurance for later and a good way to keep from having leaks when reinstalling.
While you have the bags off, you might try putting a low profile 12 - 20 ton jack on the plates where the airbags were and try jacking the axle down.
I know this is probably a stupid question, but....
The tag axles aren't chained up are they? ::)
I wish they were chained up, but no, unfortunately they are not. I figured as much. Is there any place to get parts other than me calling MCI? I just feel like i call them and i have no other options, they can charge me whatever. I need to get new shocks for the tags anyway, i figured i might as well get new air bags and plates. Do you think if i get the axle pulled out, I can get her parts broke loose, greased up and put back in so they will work? I don't understand the bearing tube, what its all made of and/or how it works. The manual simplifies everything to much. Is the bearing tube made up of actual ball bearings? Or is it just a tube that rotates within another tube? I'm not even sure we will be able to get the darn thing out. I'm pretty sure it's not going to just slide out of her spot. I just can't believe its rusted fast so much that it won't break loose. The worst part is they both aren't stuck in the same position. The passenger side is almost down....and the drivers side is pretty much almost up, by what i can tell. I need some help....I don't think I can afford to pay someone to spend a day trying to bus them loose.
What happened to all the helpful advice??? Don't tell me you guys are stumped and I'm on my own......The more I think about this tag, the more it frustrates me. If it can get grease into the axle and tubes where grease needs to be, I would think this thing should break loose. Has anyone else out there had to actually replace a tag axle because it was stuck fast. I hope I'm not the first.
I don't have an mci or tags so this is more general knowledge re rusted up stuff. As I don't have a schematic of the tag assembly bear with me. Grease will not unstick stuck stuff. Providing there is some way to take these apart later I would try forcing kerosene or some other light oil through the grease zerks. Maybe unscrew the zerks and use some kind of pressure adapter. wear goggles as I have no idea where the stuff is going to spray out. I suggest this because you are pretty stuck and from what I've read if you don't get it loose you will be replacing them.... Also never underestimate the potential progress of even the smallest amount of movement. I would get an air assisted bottle jack and try moving it/the bus up and down looking for the smallest amount of movement. IF you get .5 mm of movement that is great , go the other way then back etc etc etc . If you do use light oil /penetrating oil to unfreeze them, spen a good amount of time making sure you clear it out and replace it with grease later. Also if there are no places to get oil in at the top of the assembly, and you have a schematic, maybe you can safely drill yourself a spot. BTW some folks remove the tags completly on some buses, this might be a possibility, if you start a new thread on that I'm sure you will get plenty of opinions (I'm not sure which buses this is OK on).
I agree that any movement is something. you say you cannot pry them down, have you tried putting a jack under them and lifting them a slight amount? if you can get it to move up a little then try prying them down. if you have a buddy at the local volunteer fire dept see if they have a jaws of life they could bring over. they fit in tight areas and have a lot of power. that or a porta power if you have room for it. if it is really stuck prying is not enough, you will need hydraulics. worst case is you damage it but if it doesnt move now it is junk anyway so cant hurt at this point to get macho with it.
Heat. Lots of heat. Work on one side at a time. F
FIRST, call Luke or Sam and verify that this is not unsafe or contraindicated for sundrous reasons.
High grade explosives come to mind...but perhaps this should be a 'last resort' idea.
If heating is OK, find a torch with a big rosebud.
Get a load on the tag and maintain it. The extended tag could utilize the weight of the bus...block the tag an inch off of the other supports. Use the tag as a support point. You could install the wheel and block it so that the weight of half the rear weight of the bus is on the tag.
Once weight is applied to the tags heat the H*#% out of the side you're working on. The tags axles are two separate shafts in the tube. Just heating and cooling several times may free up the axle. Heat streches the metal quite a lot.
Heat may have a deleterious effect on the metallurgy of the tube. I dunno. I would guess that heat wouldn't damage the axle.
That's one of the reasons I suggest discussion of this project with Luke at US Coach or Sam Caylor. How far is Rantoul, Ks from you?
If the tags free up, they may do so with vigor...something's gonna move once they are hot enough. Keep the chassis blocked sufficiently to stay safe.
The tags really should be disassembled and cleaned if they break loose. They are full of rust and crud.
If you have a bus recycling business nearby, that's would be a good place to look for a tag assembly. Most of them are crushed and not worth more than the scrap value.
In any event, if you use the fire wrench...keep a charged hose nearby. Steam cleaning the are first, and using a sheet of thin steel as a heat guard would help prevent fires.
Good luck, JR
Well, I think I've recruited a little help, a seasoned truck driver/farmer is now in my corner and willing to throw some advice and help my way, plus he has the shop and tools and a little time. The heat will be my first step on Saturday. Tonight I'm going to get my 12 ton jacks under the lifting points of the tag Assembly's and let the weight of the bus over the next few days ease down on them and seem if they will move. If the weight of the bus won't break them loose, I think my only other option and/or hope is the heat. I called US coach and Luke wasn't there and Mike no longer is with them. There is a Bill there that must know something to, but he wasn't there either. I called Sam Caylor, but he wasn't there either but the guy I was talking to said they did have some tags for my MC9 and could ship them to me. God knows what that will cost....but they have some. We have a guy hopefully closer that may be helpful on parts to, but we haven't got a hold of him yet either. I will keep everyone posted....or just got on here to vent some more. Good news is....I think I've lost 10lbs of weight....just from worrying about this bus! Hard to eat or sleep when you have a 15 ton hunk of steel sitting in your driveway being really stubborn. I even gave her a bath sunday thinking she'd perk up and act a little better....I think it just made her more mad. Thanks for your guys help...
If anyone out there hears any loud screaming and cussing.....followed by a loud explosion, its just me, working on my tag axle tomorrow morning. The loud explosion will be me blowing up my bus, which will allow me to just collect the insurance money and then I won't have to worry about the tag. If by noon we have no luck getting it to move, with heat, we are cutting it off. And if i don;t blow it up, I can get parts from Luke, and/or Sam Caylor, who I have talked to both. anywhere from 1000-2000for a complete assembly. Super Betty has me in a corner and is throwing body punches wearing me down...maybe with some new assisting legs under her, she'll start acting better. I'll be back.....
Our luck has changed....we got our tag unstuck, broke loose, and operational. Goes down with its own air pressure from the air bag. We can dump the air, jack it up and the bag will push her back down with force. I think I couldn't be happier. We were so close last weekend. It just took a little more today, didn't even have to apply heat. I think it was mostly rusted and froze up under the split clamp holding the assembly together. Wither way, she works and she's leveled up. I think the unlevelness was mostly caused by the ride height valves just not be worked up and down.
We are in business.
on another note, we got $97 dollars from just recycling the stainless steel air flow vents that run down the bottom interior on each side. Just those 6-8 pieces.
Happy all around, time to drink fun beer rather than depressed beer!
;D ;D ;D See what happens when you don't give up! ;D ;D ;D
Glad to see Ol' Lady Luck turn up every now and then
Hallelujah and congratulations, all is right with the world again! ;D ;D Nothing worse than depressed beer! ;)
Congrats on freeing up the tags! ;D ;D ;D
We've been gone (playing in the rain! >:() and was wondering how your project was coming along.
Now grease the he** out of those tags on a regular schedule...and all other grease fittings.
I've got one nasty bus to clean up before Gene's Busnut rally this week. Gads. They're calling for more rain on Thursday....drove home in major rain today...you oughta see my golf cart!
If towing anything smallish, I recommend an enclosed trailer!
Oh well. At least my new $200 driver's wiper decided to work. I really dislike air wipers. :D
JR
Thanks for everyone's input on my problem. I'm super happy on finally getting her loose and working and now I can move on to a lot more fun bus conversion stuff. I guess to explain what i did for futrue bussers with this problem....here goes, and maybe this will help.
Mind you this is a very frustrating process.
1. Build a set of 6x6 ramps and platforms to back the bus up on to get it another 6-8" off the ground, cause you can get into anything or under anything as it sits there.
2. remove the tag tires. We hired and trucking company with a big air on a work truck to bust the nuts loose. I got 4 out of 20 off in 2 days and gave up. They had the next 16 off in 5 minutes.
3. we then removed the shocks.
4. Grease everything on the tag assembly. should be 4 zirts. We had to remove grease zirts and clean them up and then just replaced them. Bought a pack of 10 at tractor supply store for $5. Then we new it should take grease. Knowing that, let us know that the grease zirts weren't the reason it wasn't taking grease. We went through 10 tubes of grease on just the tag Assembly.
5. On the MC9 there is a clamp down on the axle that is 2 halves and has 4 bolts holding it together and 5th bold holding the top half in place. We removed this and it was all rusted up inside. This major corrosion wouldn't allow grease around the inside of the clamp. This clamp holds the tag axle to the bus so that it does walk out of the bus when you are going down the road. It also pivots in this clamp and i think this is where is was froze fast. Or at least this was %50 of the problem. We used penetrating oil, multiple cans on the assembly that was underneath the clamp to clean it up and help the process.
6. There are 4 bolts on each side that hold the tag axle to the frame. A few of ours were rusted bad enough they didn't look good. SO we torched them off and replaced them. That just gave me peace of mind that they were good new bolts.
7. There is no good place to jack the tag tire straight down. We took a 12 ton bottle jack and stuck it in between the shock mounts. Not the shock studs, but the A frame mounts that are welded to the assembly. You have to put it in at an angle, but its possible andthe best place to get good pressure with out removing the air bag or anything else. There isn;t a good place to pry anything....its just a pain. We then took another small 12 ton bottle jack and stuck it horizontally between the frame and back side of the tag arm. We did this to maybe push the tag assembly out of the axle, just ever so slightly to put some sheer force on it to bust the rust loose and to break the bond of the assembly that was under that split clamp we took off.
8. We then began to jack on the the bottle jack in between the shock mounts....we got some good pressure on it and then used a really big persuader, a 3lb sledge and a 5lb sledge and cracked on the tag where we could with out hitting a grease zirt breaking anything.
9. And then the loudest POP you could possibly hear happend. At that point either something broke....or it broke loose. None of us new. We were beyond the point of stopping, cause we didn;t have any other choices...so i gave the bottle jack a fem more pumps....and CRACK...one side busted loose....some more pumps, the more she moved. Moved hard, but moved.
10. Jacking it down was one thing, but then we had to get it up. Put and air assisted 20 ton jack under the jacking post on the back side of the tag assembly and started lifting. We lifted the entire bus. That's when i thought we were screwed. 3lb sledge on the same area were were hitting before and CRACK...she went back up. All was good.
11. We repeated this up and down process on both sides until we could jack it up, then throw the manual dump valve shut to air up the tag bag, and then bag had enough of its own power pressure to push it down with ease. We don't have an lift UP on our tag, its basically down all the time unless you want to dump the air for traction.
12. Put some anit-seize on the lug posts, put the tires back on and we were in business. We took some back country roads home, at a nice slow and steady pace. The up and down roughness of the roads here in Ohio gave the tag assembly a good 3"-4" work out up and down for a 20 mile ride. Had good enough down pressure we never locked up the tag breaks.
Next will probably replace the air leveling valves on the back. I think by driving it around it has helped, plus prior to moving it this weekend, I jacked it up off the ground pretty high. I think i had the rear bumper about 42" off the ground. I think extending the levelers, gave them some action they hadn't seen in years. Must have excited them, cause when i let it back down a couple days later and aired it up......she was all but level. Level enough for me.
Now we are on to more. I'm sure i have more questions. Thanks for everyones input again.
Greg - Bowmaga