Can you guys tell me what is the best brand of paint for the base coat ,clear coat system is I am having my coach painted and he is planning on using the PPG paint system 1 base and 6 clear ok or not thank you
David
You will get a lot of different responses buty my vote goes for "Nason" products. Reasonably priced, forgiving and easy to use. Then maybe "Dupont".
Ray D
I was told the best primer is made by PPG.
Ed Roelle
Flint, MI
have used them all, had no problems with any of them, seems like a lot of clear, wondering why?? painted mine with acrilic enamel witn hardner, still looks good after 10 tyrs outside
Frank allen
I am painting my 5308 with PPG AUE-100 it is an acrylic urethane enamel mainly used for painting equipment and such. We use 200-300 Gallons per year at work it and can be used over bare metal if it is prepped correctly. I think I paid around $55-$75 per gallon including activator. As far as primer goes House of Kolor makes the best epoxy primer I have used. I also use Mar-Hyde Ultimate 2k polyester primer. Base coat / clear coat paint jobs are allot of work on vehicles the size of buses. If you are using allot of graphics, metallics and such it will be worth it, otherwise a one stage paint will do just fine.
really your best products are the super toxic two part stuff like Emeron (Sp?)
seems I alsways find buses done with a base/clearcoat, pealing...likely due to poor prep or mayby something to do with a couple thousand rivets
Freightliner OEM paints both with PPG and Dupont Imron. Good LUck, TomC
I had a boat painted with what I remember as PPG Durethane over ten years ago. Still looks wet. Don't know if it is still available.
Doing a base clear coat on something as big as a bus can be a problem if there is a narrow window of time to cover the base with the clear to get the right adhesion. Our first bus was clear coated by PO and is a total mess now with the clear coat failing. Have a couple cars with problems with the clear coat breaking down too.
Good luck
Don 4107
I used the less expensive PPG paint call OMNI - very good paint - fairly cheap
My RTS is only 35' - I estimated the surface area to be preped and painted to be 750 sg ft.
The RTS was painted by the imates at the Tomoka State prison in Volusia County - PRIDE) did an absolutely great job.
1 gal MP170 epoxy primer
1 qts MP175 epoxy primer hardener
5 qts MD180 2k sealer
1 qts MH166 sealer slow hardener
4 gal MBC 33766a Acrylic Basecoat (light Pewter)
1 gal MBC 33764B Acrylic Basecoat (dark Pewter)
5 gal MR187 slow reducer
5 gal MC161 High Solids clear uretance Clear
5 qts mh168 slow topcoat hardener
1 pnt MX193 Flex additive
1 pnt MX194 Fisheye remover
Yeild --> Approx 3 coats color - 4-5 coats clear
The paint cost approx $1200 (in 2004) - labor cost for the prison to do my paint job was about $2200
Pete...do they still do bus painting? What about a time frame?
Thanx
RCB
I will use the PPG system when I get through prepping our Eagle 01. Plan to do it in four sections because of the size, and I'm doing it myself. If you have help it would go faster. Anybody want to help? ;D
We'll see how it all works out.
Good Luck and let us know what you chose and how you liked the outcome.
Paul
I'm an Imron fan, but if you are doing alot of graphics, clear coat will cover up all the tape marks. I have 1 truck that was painted in 1979 with Imron. It may have lost a little but it still looks sharp. That is along time for a paint job but its the same paint Boeing still uses for a reason. It has been around a long time and if its not still the best, at least it sets the benchmark for a quality job.
Larry, can we still use Imron in the states? I thought I heard we couldn't?
Thanks
Jack
Go to this link if you want to know about any kind of paint and the procedures.
http://www.autobody101.com/
Lots of questions and good answers.
Dupont still makes Imron, so someone must still spray it. I have heard that a lot of shope won't touch the stuff. You have to use a fresh air repsirator system. It's just plain nasty stuff.
http://www.performancecoatings.dupont.com/dpc/en/us/html/prodinfo/dic/Imron3-5HG.pdf
There are lots of easier to use auto paint out there. Go to a auto paint distributor or make friends in a shop and get answers to all of your questions.
Paul
Jack, I don't know if EPA has rules that keep it out of private hands. Maybe OSHA has some strict guides. Its been a few years since I personally purchased Imron but Tom C. sells Freightliners and he stated above Imron is one of the two paints you can select from on a new truck build sheet.
I have been talking with Manuel Amador in Los Algodnes, B.C. (Yuma), and he will strip and shoot mine reasonable w/Imron.
I like what Larry said, a truck painted almost 30 years ago...and still looking good!
Jack
you can buy Imron here in the US today it comes in two different types the polyurethane single stage and the base coat, clear coat the single stage does not have the polyester now and is not the same paint it was 20 years ago
Imron was outlawed about 15 years ago in California. I had DML painted prior to that time and she still looks great.
Richard
I'm surprised they haven't outlawed paint all together in California by now. You know, that latex wall paint might emit some water vapor into the air!
I used PPG acylic urethane. Used two gallons of color (base), once all the trim and removeables were painted, at a cost of $299 per gallon.
This was a two part BC/CC paint.
6 coats of clear may cause a problem. That's about 3 extra coats of clear. Clear isn't as expensive as the color coat, but laying on a really thick clear may lead to cracking. That would be a major bummer.
As has been stated, application instructions for these highly toxic paints are closely held.. Not available to the public without a lot of digging.
Be sure that whoever shoots isocyanate paint is familiar with the toxicity of this product.
And, hope that they are mixing it correctly. Removing botched urethane would be an absolute nightmare.
Usually one color coat is layed down, followed by another coat in about 20 minutes--or after flash. Then in about another 20 minutes the first clear is applied. Followed by a second medium coat in about 20 minutes. Then a wet 3rd coat can be applied for a really slick look.
There is no sanding between coats....as long as the window of application opportunity is followed. After about 12 hours, the color will have to be scuffed with a 3M pad. You don't want to let this happen.
Always use the "system" that the manufacturer recommends. Don't mix-n-match catalyzers or flex agents. Unless you are painting shock bumpers or rooftop AC housings, you don't need flex agents.
If you have riveted panels, forget "rubbing" out the clear. You'll damage the finish over rivets.
Also item of importance is the primer and prep. Use only recommended system primers.
The clear will blend a world of faults....it is also easy to repair if lightly scratched. Good quality paint will be attractive for a good many years of applied correctly.
Expect a few sags in the clear. If you get enough on, there will be sags. Let it dry good over several months and block them out. Don't get in a rush to make repairs until the paint and clear is completely dried. It'll be soft for a month. It'll feel hard, but it ain't. However, the bus will be useable almost immediately. The paint will dry to touch in less than an hour.
Watch the gun pressure when using HVLP guns and catalyzed finishes. Critical that the correct pressure AT THE GUN, not the wall, is maintained.
Don't let anyone modify the mixing instructions. Just don't play with the ratios. Get plenty of disposable mixing cups, and throw them away as you use them. Gun liners are nice...but optional.
Painting a coach with catalyzed paint is a job for a crew. Get some help, or keep your panels small so that it requires no more than one cup to complete. Help can mix while the application is made...greatly facilitates completion timing. Be careful in hot weather and use a reducer that tends to the slow side of your calculations. If the finish dries too fast, it won't flow out. It'll have that 'spray can' look. Look like crap. Another major bummer!
No waxing for a couple of months.
Good luck with your project!
JR
All good advice going on here. My 2 cents: Any of the name brand urethane enamel with hardener is a good call. 6 coats of clear seems a lot unless you have to cover a lot of graphics or you are planning to color sand and buff (show car stuff! and a big job on a bus!). Sometimes, many coats of clear ( thick paint ) invites problems. 2 coats of clear over color will give the depth and shine you are after. And allow flexing without the cracking. As already noted, prep is the key to painting. Spend the $ for hand sanding each rivet. If you don't and the paint chips off or peels then you have a costly nightmare to strip the paint. Sand now -- enjoy forever!
Quote from: belfert on April 16, 2008, 07:56:34 PM
I'm surprised they haven't outlawed paint all together in California by now. You know, that latex wall paint might emit some water vapor into the air!
I read that California was going to outlaw people. People exhaust carbon dioxide...and methane.
JR
Ok guys thanks for the help I have decided to go with the PPG Vibrance system because of the pearl and candy red for the base haven't decided on the graphics or the color for the graphics yet.I am going to have it stripped to the bare metal and have a good primer put on, it has a few places the paint and primer is lifting and I don't want any problems.Another question for you guys what is a good digital camera to buy I am still in the 35m age and it is not good for posting pictures and about the clear coat 2 to 6 coats is the normal by most shops with no problem (they told me) but 8 will cause a problem in time
I have a good Sony Cyber-Shot, about 125 bucks at most stores. Great photos and easy to learn and use. It has a 2 GB disk, holds lots and lots of photos. Model DSC - S650, 7.2 Mega Pixels. Get rechargeable AA batteries and charger, a must.
My other is a Cannon A 70, it is also pretty good. The support you get at Cannon is second to none. I lost my LCD screen and they replaced it for free!
Good Luck,
Paul
Paul do you know if the Olympus is good I have had my OM4 for years but it is a 35m and I will never completely it give up
I have no experience with Olympus. I have heard they are good cameras though. Do a search and compare on any of the camera sites.
Sorry I can't help you more.
The one thing I like about the digital cameras is they have so many options and features. My Sony can also take short movie clips, which is handy, sound also.
I had an old Mimya Sikor for years, still have it but don't use it anymore. I haven't seen for years so I probably forgot how to spell it correctly. Oh Well.
Paul
I don't know how we morphed from painting to cameras but I use the same rules for digital as I did for film namely that there are 2 things that influence the final picture quality:
- the lens
- the film/CCD
I shot all my 35 mm on Pentax equipment with primarily Kodachrome 25. I switched to Canon for my digital - they have good optics and the legacy Canon lenses will work if you were a Canon guy. As far as I am concerned you only have 2 choices in lenses - Canon or Nikon. Once you make the lens decision then your camera is what it is and you want as high a megapixel CCD as you can afford. The CCD corresponds to the film - higher megapixel corresponds to better quality film emulsion.
A little photo-trivia: I just digitized my entire slide collection and my father's as well. The Kodachrome has hardly changed - in some cases in over 50 years. The Fuji has colour shifted to the blues and the Ektachrome has washed out but the Kodachrome is almost as sharp as the day it was shot.
I have had quite few Olympus cameras, both 35 mm and digital. their digitals are very good. their ccd always seems to produce better pictures than the pixel count would lead to to believe. But electronics have come so far, they are all excellent.
My laptop has a port in the front where I can put my camera chip, so downloading pics is easy and fast. no extra cables, nice on a trip. Takes all three different types.
Couple of thoughts.
AA batteries is good call as you can get them anywhere. If the camera has a special battery ...there will be a time when it dies and you don't have time to recharge.
Get one that fits your hand. Some are so small it is hard to hold and can be easily dropped-- resulting in dead camera!
Shutter delay is the time it takes the camera to take the picture after you press the button. The better cameras have less delay.
6 mega pix - minimum.
I have had 2 Olympus cameras in the past and they were both good cameras. I now use a Sony Cyber-Shot with 7.2 mega-pixels and it is by far superior to the older outdated Olympus cameras I used before. It has many picture taking options like taking still images in 1080 full HD, and it also takes great video movies too and it is very easy to use. I use a 2.0 Gig Ultra II San Disk memory stick that will hold several thousand photos as well as the video movie clips. The Sony Cyber-Shot uses a Lithium Ion battery pack which I love because you can use it for tons of photos and veiwing before recharging and the recharging is fast. The older olympus cameras I have use the rechargable AA batteries and didn't last 1/4 of the time.