I plan to basically redo most of interior this summer due to some issues we found during the first big trip last year. Most of the interior wasn't done anyhow so it isn't a big deal in my eyes. (No kitchen installed so no cabinets to remove.)
My thoughts for flooring would be to get an 8 foot by 40 foot piece of commercial grade vinyl and just glue it down over underlayment in an empty bus. This would way easier than going around walls, bunks, and cabinets later. I would then just build all my walls, bunks, cabinets and such over the vinyl floor. I don't plan on welding, but that would be an issue for sure. Basically this is the way a lot of RVs are built. The flooring goes down before they even add the exterior walls in some cases. I figure I can always cut the vinyl around everything if I had to replace it in the future.
Any reasons not to do this?
sounds like a good idea, actually. gives a little more sound and temp insulation too.
Yep BTDT on 2 kitchens, 2 bathrooms (this weekend will be the third)
Just some caution notes.
I like to do all the upper end work first then do the floor. With a mad dash to the finish
on the lower stuff.
Reasons......
Doing a lot of construction if one is not careful the floor will be scratched or worse.
If the time period is long between laying of the floor and final finish the floor could be
worn out (but then I have been know to work on projects for 10 yrs or more)
You may have to put down some protective cover during some of your construction.
FWIW
<><
Skip
The S&S companies do it even with carpet. It really simplifies the job.
Glue just the perimeter and not the field and after putting in your walls cover with cardboard to protect. Pretty good Idea Brian.
IGuess I would have to dispute what othrs have stated because first off you will never be able to install a 40 piece of commercial grade vinyl in one piece without rips and wrinkles. And as others said it will wear out before your done! I say this because I am a flooring installer by trade!
Do it the right way and do each section as you need it. Besides, you may want to trade off here and there.
Why only glue the perimeter? I know that travel trailers have only the edges secured and the center loose, but I assumed that was for speed and to save money.
I'm certainly not going to wear out a good commercial grade of vinyl before my bus is finished since it will be mostly finished before an August trip. The issue of not being able to lay a 40 foot peice of vinyl is not something I thought about. I know commercial vinvyl is heavy.
A local flooring store will sell me leftover commercial grade vinyl for $1 a square ft and you can't get very good vinyl for $1 a ft at normal prices. Some of the stuff at this place has been sitting since 2003 and I am hoping they will go even less than $1 to get rid of it.
I was going to do what you are thinking about, install the complete floor front to back before anything else goes in.
I did not do that, and now I am pleased I waited.
First, our minds have changed so many times on what to put where. At least the bosses anyway! ;)
Second, in our case the floor would have had 5 years of wear and tear before the inside is complete, still working on it since 03.
In you situation I'm sure it will work just fine for you. Your time frame is much shorter.
Just make sure you lay down what you want, it's no fun to have to tear it out because desires change in time.
Happy Trails,
Paul
Personally I wouldn't do it because I would want all my walls and cabinetry to be properly bonded down to the floor, not just screwed / bolted through the vinyl. Due to my background I tend to take a boatbuilder's approach to the interior fit-out, and a boatbuilder would never fasten something down with mechanical fasteners if it could instead be bonded using adhesive to make it an intregral part of the overall structure. I know you don't need 'bulkheads' in a bus quite as much as you do in a boat, but I would still want the solidity of my walls and cabinetry to be beyond question.
And besides I would want a different floor covering in the bedroom to the kitchen to the bathroom to the living area!
Jeremy
I am building a very simple conversion for use a few times a year. I was going to use an industrial type carpet with bright colors n the rear area, but after my trip to the desert I decided no carpet. The dust was thick inside the bus and I decided that carpet would never come clean. We literally opened every window in the bus once we hit the highway to blow out some of the dust and it worked.
One color the entire length of the bus won't bother me or my friends. If I had a wife or went camping every week I would probably reconsider.
Belfert,
"If I had a wife " There is still hope :o
I hear a bus is a real wife getting magnet Let's just hope she like vinyl (floor)
Just teasing you a bit
Skip
For Brian's use it is a perfectly good idea. It's a week end bachelor pad a few times a year. Brian's bus will be a bowling alley with everything out of it and it should be easy to roll out then fold up the edges to glue. Glue just the perimeter for ease of replacement later plus the last time I put down that type of flooring that was the way the warranty said to do it. Your walls and built in furniture will also be securing it down.
Yeah, an expensive bachelor pad since I spent way more than planned for a few trips a year. The bus might get a bit more use with reasonable fuel prices.
I'll ask the flooring place their opinion on edge gluing or not. Edge gluing would be easier. The one bad thing about commercial vinyl is lack of shine. I need to make sure these vinyls don't require waxing.
regarding dust, thats one way I clean my bus after gong to the desert. I have a small gas powered leafblower and I just blow out all the dirt and sand. Then I use the vaccum and then a dust rag.
First off commercial vinyl should not be peremter glued. It wasn't designed that way. If it has a hydrcord backing then it MUST be full spread which brings to mind again that any full spread application will be VERY hard if not impossible to do with a piece 40 foot long. Getting it IN without breaking the backing or ripping it would be hard enough. Keeping it straight IN the bus is next!
A buch a foot is not really cheap since they usually charge by the square foot. That makes it 9 bucks a yard. A 9x40 is 360 sq feet or 40 sq yds.
If it's old and been on the shelf, it may be dry rotted which means it will break and rip even easier! The vinyl that was designed to be glued and even stapled around the edges has been long gone. If this is the material your looking at make sure it is rolled in it's special paper that keeps it from shrinking. Once it is out of the paper it will shrink. That's the way it is designed. If it is stored without the paper. It will NEVER lay flat!
I have been in the flooring industry for 38 years so what I'm telling you is to advise, not sell!
I withdraw my horse from this race
Quote from: Blacksheep on April 11, 2008, 07:30:47 AM
First off commercial vinyl should not be peremter glued. It wasn't designed that way. If it has a hydrcord backing then it MUST be full spread which brings to mind again that any full spread application will be VERY hard if not impossible to do with a piece 40 foot long. Getting it IN without breaking the backing or ripping it would be hard enough. Keeping it straight IN the bus is next!
A buch a foot is not really cheap since they usually charge by the square foot. That makes it 9 bucks a yard. A 9x40 is 360 sq feet or 40 sq yds.
Thank you for the advice. I will talk to the flooring place about all of these issues before buying anything. They might have something in a good grade of residential vinyl they want to get rid of. I just thought going with commercial would be better than some of the residential vinyl that is about as thick as construction paper.
As far as price goes is $1 a square foot expensive for commercial vinyl remnants? I priced out residential vinyl and anything at Home Depot/Menards that wasn't junk is $1.50 to over $3 a square foot. I don't see some of the $0.99 a square foot glueless vinyl with the foam backing lasting very long in a bus conversion.
Any recommendations for seaming the flooring if I don't have any natural breaks? Maybe I'll have to hire a pro to lay the vinyl, but I was hoping to avoid that. I've done a little bit of vinyl laying in the past.
Don't ask me I haven't laid anything for a while. :(
Inspect home depot, menard, lowe's goods very carefully, most of what they carry is seconds, stuff that doesn't quite qualify for the regular stores. So are there tubs, showers and many other items.
Ray D
Quote from: Ray D on April 11, 2008, 10:15:39 AM
Inspect home depot, menard, lowe's goods very carefully, most of what they carry is seconds, stuff that doesn't quite qualify for the regular stores. So are there tubs, showers and many other items.
Has anyone ever verified with a distributor or manufacturer that they are shipping seconds to home improvement stores, especially seconds not labeled as such? There are at least 3,000 home improvement stores in the USA. How could there possibly be enough seconds to stock all these stores?
I keep reading on the Internet folks claiming that power tools sold at home improvement stores have cheaper innards than the same model sold elsewhere. Home improvement stores probably sell a good majority of tools sold today so it wouldn't make much sense from the manufacturer's viewpoint. I think they would be in big legal trouble if the model number was sold with different innards at different retailers.
I have no intention of buying vinyl at Home Depot or any other home improvement store.
Quote from: belfert on April 11, 2008, 10:52:12 AM
I keep reading on the Internet folks claiming that power tools sold at home improvement stores have cheaper innards than the same model sold elsewhere. Home improvement stores probably sell a good majority of tools sold today so it wouldn't make much sense from the manufacturer's viewpoint. I think they would be in big legal trouble if the model number was sold with different innards at different retailers.
I've never heard of that, but what I could believe is that lower-grade versions of the same internals are sold through cheaper outlets - this is exactly what happens with computer chips, for example, where a batch of identically manufactured chips are tested, with the best ones going to Mcdonnell Douglas and Grumman for $1000 each, the average ones going to Sony and Kenwood for $1 each, and the barely acceptable ones going into some throwaway electronic toy at 1c each. My Dad used to work in company that made brake discs (rotors) for cars, and the ones that passed the safety tests but had visible discolouration of the metal etc went onto new cars (ie. where no one would see or handle them), whereas the 'best' ones that looked perfect always went for use as spare parts.
Jeremy
No, not all they have are seconds, but they do take and sell them, that is why you have to inspect carefully.
Ray D
Quote from: Ray D on April 11, 2008, 10:15:39 AM
Inspect home depot, menard, lowe's goods very carefully, most of what they carry is seconds, stuff that doesn't quite qualify for the regular stores. So are there tubs, showers and many other items.
Ray D
Ray,
I also would be interested in some proof on that statement!
I have found that they sell repackaged, under there own brand or off brand.
I have seen this in several flooring items when I was in the market.
My experience has been that they generally stock the lower end of an item in store, but higher quality can be ordered in.
I have an opened box of tile that I will return soon to Lowes, I needed two pieces out of the case to finish.
They will take it back, no hassles, that's why these retailers are so successful, price and convenience, not 2nd hand goods.
Cliff
hmmm, being that you are doing a sort of utilitarian Desert freindly conversion....why not install bus fllooring back in it.
the stuff will last forever is easy to clean/sweep.
there is a reason they don;t use normal stuff in there OEM
Don't forget to look for clearance snap together wood flooring, the pergo knockoff stuff. I found it for about $.80 per foot. It was a pallet deal at value city. Sam's club sometime's has the stuff clearanced out too. It was super easy to lay down, tough as nails, and you just build everything over the top of it and screw it to the floor. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
Glenn
Well as a lowes employee i have never heard of selling seconds we sell the same name brands as other stores. by the way i used prorlean tile in my bus and it is like the day i layed it ...lol
Richard
PS; mak has used lowes products in his motorcabins
Doug, Any ideas how much bus flooring costs? You're right it is good stuff.
Glenn, I suspect laminate flooring would scratch too easily with sand and dirt. Vinyl isn't perfect either, but I think it will hold up better.
Quote from: tekebird on April 11, 2008, 12:57:40 PM
hmmm, being that you are doing a sort of utilitarian Desert freindly conversion....why not install bus fllooring back in it.
Hey, that's actually not a bad idea.
Belfert,
That flooring is tough! I've got sawdust, screws, etc laying all over the place and I haven't gotten any scratches, and I'm using the cheap stuff! Charley had put it in his old 4905 that I bought and it did heavy duty traffic for him and tons of campground dirt with me and it had no scratches either. I've even slid my 40lb propane tank around on it and no issues. Good luck!
Glenn
Just put aluminum diamond plate down and you can weld all of your furniture to it so it won't move ;)
I don't want to get into the prove it stuff, sorry, just let the buyer beware and also get a quote from a local professional supplier that has lots of years of experience. I find the price is actually better most of the time and you get better advice, service and you support your'e local community better. I am not trying to belittle these massive selling machines, I still use them as necessary, everyone just assumes they are looking out for "us".
Ray D
my 2 cents.
roll flooring is a PITA to install in small spaces. Cleanliness is hard to maintain, one little bit of grit will show on the surface, I have almost always noticed little bits of this and that even with "proffesionally?" installed roll flooring. I will probably lay vinyl composite tiles in the the main field on my bus, cleans easily, damaged pieces can be pulled one at a time, and the installation is very simple.
Quote from: zubzub on April 12, 2008, 08:04:40 AM
my 2 cents.
roll flooring is a PITA to install in small spaces. Cleanliness is hard to maintain, one little bit of grit will show on the surface, I have almost always noticed little bits of this and that even with "proffesionally?" installed roll flooring. I will probably lay vinyl composite tiles in the the main field on my bus, cleans easily, damaged pieces can be pulled one at a time, and the installation is very simple.
Are you talking the commerical type vinyl tiles like in retail stores or the type of vinyl tiles that are basically vinyl flooring in squares? They sell the commerical type at Home Depot for pretty inexpensive, but I worry about the upkeep. Don't the tiles have to be waxed and then burnished/buffed and rewaxed from time to time?
I remember the retail store I worked at 15 years ago had a crew burnish the floor with a big machine once a week and then wax the floor. That retail floor did take a beating with the traffic, especially in the winter when they used sand. My bus would never see the same level of traffic.
I think I'm going to go with vinyl composition tile because it is cheap and I won't be trying to wrestle a 40 foot piece of sheet vinyl.
I found two different people on craigslist selling VCT cheap. One is only charging $5 a case for white tile. I would rather have tan, but don't want to pay five times more either. White hard vinyl tile is kinda institutional, but I'm not living in this bus or using it much.
I saw some light commercial vinyl at Home Depot and was $3 a square foot.
Vct or vinyl composition tile WILLindeed need to be waxed and buffed IF you desire a wet look shine! It doesn't need to be but can be! It is 1/8 inch versus 1/16. Wears good but again, breaks easy before its down! There are 45 pieces or feet to a case whereas soft vinyl tile there usually 25 or 27. Check the sq feet per box to compare!
As others stated, you can repair either type easier one piece here or there over a sheet vinyl and yes either sqaure or sheet the floor must be baby butt smooth or whatever is under them will magnify and show. A small grain of sand under the commercial tile will starburst and eventually break thru the tile.
Remember, the end result depends on what you pay for. Cheap now is ok but you might find yourself replacing it which brings you back to paying what you would have paid initially for good stuff!
Just as a thought, belfert, do you have any companies in your area that make hardwood flooring? Last winter I bought a house for my daughter and I went to Hoerner Flooring in our area and got almost a full pickup load of shorts for 25 bucks, I got enough from that to do her living room floor (16x16), her dining room floor (16x14) and her hallway upstairs, they were the full 3/4x3 inch strips averaging 18 to 24 inches long. I had to run a sander over the floor after I layed the flooring and varnish it but the cost was certainly low, drawback is that in 20 or 30 years I'll have to refinish the hard maple. The flooring plant closed down in our area a few months ago but if there is one in your area, it might be a thought for a durable floor thats pretty forgiving.
Quote from: Blacksheep on April 13, 2008, 04:25:48 AM
Remember, the end result depends on what you pay for. Cheap now is ok but you might find yourself replacing it which brings you back to paying what you would have paid initially for good stuff!
The two people I found selling VCT cheap on Craigslist are both selling Armstrong Excelon VCT. I assume this is pretty decent stuff, but I could be wrong.
I am going to put underlayment over the original floor to get things nice and smooth. Home Depot sells some underlayment that is perfectly smooth on one side and has been coated for moisture resistance.
I laid vinyl in the bathroom of the bus and did have problems with dirt underneath it. We had cut the vinyl down to approimate size and then set it on a dirty floor outside the bathroom. The bathroom is being torn out completely along with the vinyl and the original underlayment. I want to make bathroom smaller plus the shower walls cracked due to shower head not secured properly.
not sure what you mean by underlayment...but the armstrong vct is a good mid range product, not made for heavy industrial but plenty good enough for a daycare (bus?) and I believe I cut it last time using a ceramic tile cutter (score and snap)
Also the tile needs to be glued to the subfloor, so any underlay has to be well glued to whatever is under it.
If you have a solid plywood subfloor, you can skim coat the imperfections using thinset, and thinset and mesh tape over cracks, run a small non orcit hand sander over the entire area, and install with no underlayment. If you have tile floor already, just fill the imperfections, abrade the surface and install another layer (but witht the layout offset from the previous)
there are very good forums with tons of experience in all this...breaktime at finehomebuilding.com etc...
By underlayment I mean the plywood they sell specificially to go under sheet vinyl and the like. Even in a new house they still use this stuff even though the regular plywood floor is new. A lot of it is under 1/4" thick and 5 feet, but I have been using some that is 1/4" thick and has one side with knots filled and coated to be moisture resistant. The thickness helps bridge the gap where the seat rail was plus the 4x8 size is a perfect fit in the bus with no cutting.
know I know what you mean, yeah we use that. I glue and nail it down using an air nailer. the final sub surface is the same as the primer surface in a paint job, any imperfections will show up through the vcp, so I still use the sander. when I can't allow for another lift of 1/4" for adjoining surfaces, I smooth out the plywood sub floor as mentioned previously.