There was a comment made in a previous post, "... I know he has a problem with getting the job out on time ..."
I wanted to pass along an approach that I learned when I built our house. Some of the subcontractors took forever to finish the job because I was at the bottom of their priority list. Large contractors were able to get my job pushed off the list.
I would discuss the contract requirements, cost, timing, etc with the subcontractor. If they said that they could do the job in 3 weeks, I would offer them say - 6 weeks, so as to fit it in their schedule. In the contract, if they did not finish in the 6 weeks, they were penalized (at that time) $100 per day. The subcontractors had no problem committing to that.
There were times that the job did not get done on schedule. I did not want the money, I just wanted my job done. So, at that point, I would offer to eliminate the penalty, IF they agreed to work on my job, 100% of the time.
This technique moved my priority up.
Choose your times and requirements.
Ed Roelle
Flint, MI
Awwwwwwww, ed, now you did it, libby has taken my to do list and handed me a bill for the over schedule work, there goes my beer money lol.
Subs who do good work are always busy......people are waiting in line for their work. They laugh at time constraints built into contracts. They just say, "No thanks".........."Next".
You will get inferior help with this approach.
The best way to treat a man with a good reputation.... is to keep in touch and trust him. If yours wasn't recommended to you by a private party, go find someone who was. Ask friends, Neighbors, work mates (everyone has had experience) until you find your guy. When you find the right man, he will find a way to come through for you and still give you quality. He does what he says. His word still matters.
If you rely on your builder to hire subs, he will (might) get the cheapest guys he can find. (You will (might) wind up with the "BFB bunch"......beer for breakfast.) Lots of problems as you can imagine.
The best way to motivate a slacker...... hasn't been developed. If you feel like you need to motivate him, your already in trouble. Good luck on that one.
Mike, painted my bus the only time he gets behind is when people start changing the scheme of paint and the graphics and I know of some that have done this to him and when he is finshed you never have to go back for any touch up work
Subs aren't nearly so busy these days with the housing slowdown in many areas. I know around here a lot of subs would jump at a contract with a penalty clause. Craigslist is full of ads with guys selling construction trailers, complete tool setups, vans, and the like as contractors close up shop.
I hired a plumber last week from a large reputable firm and was able to get any appointment any day I wanted. The guy they sent said he only had one other appointment that day. I don't know that these guys even do new houses, but I suspect folks are putting off plumbing repairs with money being tight. I normally do these things myself, but was in a bind to get my house on the market.
I hired a guy to install a new door on my bus and he did a great job, but his project scheduling and communication skills suck! He is busy as all get out and almost never answers his phone or returns messages. He also rarely shows up when he says he will. I took my bus over to his place for the initial part of the project. He said it would done by end of week and I figured that was impossible so I planned on two weeks. I didn't get my bus back for four or five weeks! When I did get it back the project wasn't complete. He came over to my house several times to work on it over the summer and didn't get things buttoned up enough to really use until about two days before my big trip in late September. Even then, it was not fully finished. He was going to come over last fall to finally get it done, but that didn't happen. He was going to come over this weekend and again a no show.
The only good news is I have not paid a dime yet for the work. I offered to make a partial payment and he refused. He has done a bit of extra work beyond the agreed work, but if he asks for extra money I will not pay it based on a 2 week project turning into 9 months and not yet finished.
Good topic.
Even when you research a good vendor you need still need some leverage. Right Chaz but if you hire a General you don't hand pick his subs. Unless you wish to be the general.
Ed's approach is professional as it is up front and allows the vendor to set the time frame and allows a wide margin. I would think that if a vendor balks at a complete date that is double what he asked for, might not be the correct vendor for you. The only change I would make is to allow specific weather delays. In writing, of course.
This is a modified performance bond. Giant contracts normally includes performance bonds. It requires extra paperwork for the contractor and for small jobs they will usually just pass on your job altogether.
Building Wal-Marts and other box stores over the years Ed's approach was on the same lines they took but a contract with a penalty clause without the same amount for early completion is not worth the paper it is written on but you can ask for liquidated damages for x amount of dollars per day if it's over the agreed time.Wal-Mart and other Corps use this now because some of us contractors would collect that 5 grand a day for the early completion bonus but it didn't last long with those guys the contracts are all liquidated damages now it's one way their way
Quote from: luvrbus on April 06, 2008, 10:28:16 AM
... but a contract with a penalty clause without the same amount for early completion is not worth the paper it is written on ...
I'm kind of surprised to hear that. I've seen reports of some pretty outlandish contracts that got challenged in court but the court upheld them on the basis that the objecting party had knowingly agreed to it. I wonder why the late penalty contracts didn't hold up in court? Late payment penalties in financial contracts sure do hold up and don't require any early payment reward. :o
Hi Guy's,
Subs are driven by time & money... If they see a general contractor that is well organized, they will take on that job.
Why, because subs bid on jobs prioritized by income. If they bid a job, they are usually expecting to do so in the near
future. If they agree on a job for you and you take too long, or subbing the other aspects of the project, they get backed
up in other promised work.... Just like any other things in life, if your organized, people respect you more.
5 years ago, I built my new shop in 5 months. [Complete] I was the general contractor and had all my subs lined up by
ground breaking day. I also took into consideration, when was the best time of year for my subs to ac comadate me as well
as the best time of year for me. So from October to March that winter we finished sight work, septic system, underground water, electric,
elevated build site 3 ft., constructed a 3600sf pole building with an insulation and interior pkg, 2- 12' x 16' overheads with openers,
two offices with tile floors, 1 600sf apartment over the office, alarm systems, keypad access systems, communicating HVAC systems,
1100 ft of fencing, 300ft paved driveway, 170 ft. of highway curbing and apron, landscaping and concrete walks. Did I forget anything??
Oh yea, completely moving from my old shop to my new one before opening back up on March 20th that year..
Hay I'm getting better, I just built my shop again this time in 10 min's...Lol
Moral of the story, Be Organized!
Nick-
Well, what do we want to discuss? Commercial or residential? Two different animals.