BCM Community

Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: hargreaves on March 15, 2008, 10:12:55 PM

Title: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on March 15, 2008, 10:12:55 PM
so we began the project of raising the roof of my MCI 102a3 today.  here are a few of the progress pics as of tonight.

the coach as it began in the morning

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3291.jpg&hash=8aa338128835d8fffcbf6fb200e561289ca9f646)


the raising bracket assembly that we fabricated

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3294.jpg&hash=ecdebb882609357af8e3678cd44333532fcc7761)


after the cut was made and roof was raised slightly

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3308.jpg&hash=c649ca91110396afd7a36f83c0b55e5a664bfb2f)


this is me raising the roof.  on a side note the brackets worked flawlessly


(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3309.jpg&hash=b2873d7e75b9415965c89d7be12d074e445af8b5)



here is a couple of my buddies lending a hand

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3302.jpg&hash=5a104a2bd43fe31e1ec0fab211014d54dc96c084)


here it is raised the 8"

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3329.jpg&hash=7b5bcecd730201384b8acf6bd4ea56acbcf6b2cf)



here is the filler section tacked in place


(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3327.jpg&hash=959b1ae8c8da8912efc6216e3882b4fa7b2565c7)




and that's it for today, more progress pics will be posted as the project continues
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: FloridaCliff on March 16, 2008, 03:20:33 AM
Nice Work!

That was on of my many favorite projects on the bus.

I made my lifting brackets a little different, but I like yours better.

Keep up the good work and looking forward to more updates.

Cliff
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: Tom Y on March 16, 2008, 06:09:03 AM
Looking GOOD!! You need to tell me how to post the big pics to. Well maybe I'd be lost.  Thanks Tom Y 
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: TomC on March 16, 2008, 09:38:07 AM
Now that is a very cleaver way of doing the raise.  I'm glad to see that those threaded rods were strong enough to keep the roof from moving or falling on its own.  Lot's of work ahead!  Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: captain ron on March 16, 2008, 10:03:14 AM
Nice project and pictures.  I wish I had taken pictures of mine.  I like your jacking method it's rather ingenious. The way I jacked mine up was I built 4 beams that spanned across the bus and 2 sat on the window sill that runs the full length of the bus. I put one up front and one in the rear. Then I set 4 jacks (1 at each corner) on them then put the other beams on top under the roof frame. I put square tubing in the existing channel that fit perfectly. This was done on 4 corners of the bus and kept the roof from moving in any direction but up or down.

Good luck.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: boogiethecat on March 16, 2008, 11:25:28 AM
Oh I know the look on your face VERY well!!  :)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heartmagic.com%2Froofraising.jpg&hash=304fa16e7edbc5fc5a5c2622ec27b199d95160a4)
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: grantgoold on March 16, 2008, 12:51:51 PM
Hey, is that toilet already installed? ;D
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: coachconverter on March 16, 2008, 01:03:48 PM
Looks great, we need some "pull-back" shots, to see what you're doing with the front cap and around the windshields.  I know the logical places, but would like to see what it looks like floating in air!

So worried were you that the roof might shift to one side or the other and bend that allthread right over with it? 

Nice pictures, I wish I would remember to take them more often.

Todd
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on March 16, 2008, 06:47:32 PM
todays progress


removing the old front cap

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3348.jpg&hash=7c8f27065f60e7540b2872fc7d6b8ce5afdecfe7)


with the old front cap removed.  i still have to fabricate the new support structure due to the difference in cap shapes and heights

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3352.jpg&hash=19496f4d1457d1d2433b2b1ce1646f605ade7405)


my son and i lifting the new front cap into place for a test fitting.


(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3353.jpg&hash=3af99dcd0d2032bc14d64c5ab455330eaee7d403)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3357.jpg&hash=8e3cf81c3de07bfdf479705a8aefe2ba29e4164f)


here's the cap in place before the cuts are made to the exact size


(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3363.jpg&hash=71a21005f5366e10711fd399ed030c858b6b4139)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3364.jpg&hash=5efb9cf6751d68e0cb49e0551da9109d18e3d6ca)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3365.jpg&hash=37d61c142763e2b29d8514b4ae91929b80226e83)


also welded in some new supports for the windows as they will be raised by 4".  couldn't get those finished as the wlder ran out of gas.  tomorrow's projects are to get those all finished and grow the balls to actually make the cuts in the new front cap to make it the exact size.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: ea187 on March 16, 2008, 07:49:22 PM
wow, the roof raising is impressive but what i'm more impressed with is that you can get your son to help you work on it.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: jackhartjr on March 17, 2008, 04:32:42 AM
Buddy, let me tell you and I'm sure everyone else will agree...you don't need to grow bigger balls...with what you have done so for...you already got 'em! ;D
Jack
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: jjrbus on March 17, 2008, 07:59:25 AM
Not too late.  Its a good idea to cover every piece of glass and plastic that you don't want to replace with carboard, wood, something to stop the sparks from welding, cutting and grinding. Its hard to belive but the sparks from a grinder can melt into a glass window. The sparks can also leave a nice mess to clean up on stainless.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on March 17, 2008, 08:48:26 AM
Thanks for the pump up Jack I needed it.  I never even thought about the windows. the windshields are being replaced but the drivers and door windows aren't. todays project get gas and more welding. It's raining so the caps will have to waitand I can remeasure AGAIN!!.  Gerry
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: jackhartjr on March 17, 2008, 08:57:51 AM
One of Chazwoods post reminded me that I may want to take all of the glass out if I even have a chance of breaking it.
Since a lot of my glass is made from unobtainium or "Yougottobekiddingmeium", you best believe I will!
I meant to say something about the glass when I saw it...at least jjrbus did.
Jack
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: boogiethecat on March 17, 2008, 02:48:28 PM
Yeah, I found out the hard way welding with my Crown's windshields still in.  Those little sparks really love to stick to glass and make a mess of it.  Ya know how much that one cost me?

OUCH

Good reminder!!!!!

Looks like a great job and I wish I were there to help! Raising the roof is my most favorite fun part of it all!!

Cheers
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on March 18, 2008, 10:42:39 PM
Well I got the balls to cut the caps.  had some sun today so I  fitted them.  it was it painstaking  getting the rear cap fiberglass from between the roof and support. still have to remove them and goop them for the final install . trying to decide whether to go with led lights or not. Don't know if they make them in the 24 volt  version. didn't have time to post the pics. tomorrows job.  Going to bed now.  Gerry
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: Songman on March 19, 2008, 06:44:37 AM
Quote from: boogiethecat on March 17, 2008, 02:48:28 PM


Looks like a great job and I wish I were there to help! Raising the roof is my most favorite fun part of it all!!

Cheers

You can come to Bakersfield in the next couple of months and help us all you want! They say doing an Eagle is a breeze but it still scares the crap out of me!


Quote from: hargreaves on March 18, 2008, 10:42:39 PM
trying to decide whether to go with led lights or not. Don't know if they make them in the 24 volt  version.

I know that MCI offers them but probably expensive. That probably means that they are available elsewhere cheaper.
http://www.mcicoach.com/Parts-Service-Support/partsNewsLights.htm
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on March 22, 2008, 09:42:53 PM
so we got quite a bit done this week. 


cut out the rear support from the old cap.


(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3386.jpg&hash=574cfb8ca956e57a34592e0d17135e708b4c8bc2)


finally got the balls to cut the rear cap.  i cut a little bit longer than needed just to be safe.  here is us trying to get it to fit right.  i tell you the molds suck cause it didn't fit anywhere near properly without major a working


(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3395.jpg&hash=4334d7bf37f53169889c3718175986b963b650bd)


trimming the cap to the right size


(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3405.jpg&hash=4c9822a5a2aef99a1a99ad05cb9677630cb88035)


i warned my son to be careful but he wasn't.  a warning to everyone else: when using the sealant that comes with the caps be careful, it is really messy and doesn't come off anything.


(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3406.jpg&hash=94e4e4d8d63ad48305480b22f55a4b3b10ed4c4e)



riveting the cap down for good now.  what a tedious job

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3417.jpg&hash=b1af9ae4e37ae988ee8e92c4e70439252df18b12)


the bottom half of riveting.

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3416.jpg&hash=fb7138e9f276bfa7cd0db9418fe7aaf960d0f2bd)


best picture of the cap installed (wifey got sidetracked making lunch so no pictures of it finished today)


(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3419.jpg&hash=600b69f19215570da06d191643609043d24cb30e)


that's all for now, hopefully it stays nice out so that the front cap can be installed before the weekend is over.



Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: Tenor on March 22, 2008, 10:10:26 PM
Awesome Job and great pictures!  Tell us you're keeping the flame job! ;)
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2008, 05:07:40 AM
In the picture 'bottom half of riveting' are the two curved pieces of square tubing beside your son's head all that hold up the rear of the bus?
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: gumpy on March 23, 2008, 08:55:35 AM
I almost ripped you for putting that photo up of your boy holding the bucking bar and not wearing ear muffs.

Then I took another look, and can see the little orange dots in his ear.  Sure glad to see that.

Be safe!

craig


Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: captain ron on March 23, 2008, 09:15:11 AM
Very nice documentation of your roof raise. Did that bus come from around Chattanooga?
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on March 23, 2008, 09:17:31 AM
You noticed that Gumpy, two more cross braces to go in and then framing material, you don't think thats enough?. there isn't that much to support.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on March 23, 2008, 09:22:07 AM
Charlie, the bus came from Alberta. Close to Calgary. It was originally a hound and then as a charter for the Drumheuller Dragons junoir "A" hockey team .
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: gumpy on March 23, 2008, 02:02:56 PM
Quote from: hargreaves on March 23, 2008, 09:17:31 AM
You noticed that Gumpy, two more cross braces to go in and then framing material, you don't think thats enough?. there isn't that much to support.

I couldn't believe even a kid could stand the racket of holding a bucking bar inside the bus!!

I think what Stan is getting at is that if you follow the framing on the side of the engine bay doors, you'll see that it at one time went
up into the roof framing to help support the somewhat cantilevered engine cradle. There was a continuous line from the bottom of the cradle up into the two side roof beams. This helped distribute the engine weight up into the roof structure, and then down into the sides of the coach.

You might want to consider putting these pieces back in.

craig
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: Stan on March 23, 2008, 02:18:59 PM
The longitudinal stringers in the roof are under tension carrying the weight of the front and rear overhangs of the bus. If you look at the entrance door area and steps, you will see that there is nothing holding up that area except for the roof. In MCIs, the small tubing above the door is frequently cracked above the door post.

I think the rear end framing should connect into the stringers to keep them under tension. Because of the over design in a bus, you can get away with a lot of chopping but it is better to follow the original concept when it is easy to do.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on April 02, 2008, 08:21:00 AM
got a little update of the weeks work.

the side panels that go in to fill the empty space

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3446.jpg&hash=78317ccda63a4b71d5808b63ba30aee7117b2b94)


the bracing for the rear cap and rear of the bus.

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3455.jpg&hash=e740193815f2c5d0171e9ad043a75332d8964912)


bracing for front cap and front of bus.  (still need to fiberglass insome more support for the flimsy cap

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3457.jpg&hash=95fda4e6a7538a5a5ad793a83435aee33f97ca25)


roof bracing and hvac ducting in place

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3458.jpg&hash=a697ba8cf048ccebfb11393565bc96f1c2cce216)


and these speak for themselves.  in place and glued and bolted down, just the riveting left.

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3462.jpg&hash=f1ae57c2af94e583c5a5f218d9e923aab740b9d1)

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3461.jpg&hash=26ee1536eff3f8ef89be7a7a2ff430f70867c23e)

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3459.jpg&hash=738c55c562462e6860154806f35616b536c0f7e4)
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: Stan on April 02, 2008, 08:40:31 AM
I pointed out in a previous post that the rear of the bus is held up by connecting the lower framework tothe roof stringers. The front is held up in a similar fashion by the windshield posts. Especially on the passenger side, where there is a big hole in the side of the bus, you need substantial metal cantilevered over the door post to hold up the right windshield post. You may already have this, but your picture didn't show that corner.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on April 02, 2008, 09:04:01 AM
THanks Stan, after you're last post you'll notice I fnished the rear with more supports, I also did the front over the door as you suggested. Thanks for the valuable info.

Regards Gerry
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: lloyd on April 02, 2008, 09:23:34 AM
I see you live on the west coast of Canada, did you have your caps brought up from Portland or did you go down and get them yourself? I live in Kamloops and am looking at doing a raise next summer. It sure is nice being able to look at some pictures to see what is all involved, thanks.
Lloyd
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: HB of CJ on April 02, 2008, 01:07:01 PM
Great post!  Especially all the pictures.  Thanks.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on April 02, 2008, 08:30:21 PM
Hi Lloyd, I had them shipped to Blaine and picked them up there. The box was big though. 5 ft X 5ft X 9 ft. Cost about $300 to ship.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: Barn Owl on April 02, 2008, 10:06:21 PM
By having a 4106 and no interest in raising a roof I generally skip this type of post. Wow, I am glad I read this one. With this type of photo documentation you cannot help but find this interesting. You have done a fantastic job of showing the rest of us what is involved and this quality of documentation would make it much easier for someone else to do the same modification. I think the rest of us should follow your example as we post.  I love the detail. Great work!

Laryn
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: Barn Owl on April 02, 2008, 10:46:17 PM
The comment was made about damaging glass while metalworking. We have a computer station in the shop at work and I was grinding across the room one day from it. When I went to use the computer I noticed that I had pitted the screen of my monitor. I had to use a razor to pick out the very small pieces of metal and grinding wheel. We still used that monitor for several years but that one time really trashed it. Live and learn.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on April 03, 2008, 09:04:26 AM
Thanks Barn Owl, someone earlier in the post suggested I cover the glass but I'm replacing it all so I did'nt worry about it.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: lloyd on April 03, 2008, 07:19:53 PM
Gerry another question about buying the roof caps. When you brought them back across the border into Canada did you have any problems, or what did you have to before hand as far as customs??
Lloyd
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: Sojourner on April 03, 2008, 08:10:59 PM
Hi Gerry: Did you add diagonals as per photo.....to carry the vertical up & down torque stress from like what Stan posted?

I don't know if you can see the light blue dashes connected from top of rear side window's roof frame to bottom of next vertical post at the bottom corner of the triangle. Second diagonal connected top of same "next vertical" post to bottom of "cradle" post at cross connection (above the engine's doors) to make a triangle.

I assumed that you are going to solid rivet the one side aluminum panel over one of non RV window hole. Otherwise add one diagonal brace or cross brace ( \ or X ) at each side.
This to control the horizontal movements from the engine's cradle vertical reactions.

Great projects & photos.

Keep looking up!

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry

PS....I need to learn how Gerry post his large photo without attachment? My modified photo isn't doing justice like I wanted to show the diagonals.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: ea187 on April 03, 2008, 09:06:58 PM
sojourner, you need a web based picture hosting site.  i use photobucket for his photos.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on April 03, 2008, 10:50:28 PM
Hi Lloyd I just told them at the border that I purchased them  and how much they cost and they gave me a slip to take into the office to pay the GST and PST. Make sure you have the bill of sale. I had mine sent with the parts. That was it... done.
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on April 03, 2008, 11:01:20 PM
Thanks Jerry I was wondering whether I should do that or not. I am going to sicaflex the side panels so I `guess I should add the diagonals

Gerry
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on May 02, 2008, 08:25:48 AM
well it's been almost a month since the last update and quite a bit has been done since.  the side panels are all on and the windows are now in so the tarp has been taken off.  the heating ducts/furnace and floor have all been installed and the insulation and interior walls are now going in.  don't have any really recent pics as of now but these are the last that were taken

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3504.jpg&hash=e2afbc480833f2a996e53eaaffd3f144697ef442)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3505.jpg&hash=7b0ee9281b35241917e7cbe17308775df3d45be7)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3511.jpg&hash=a28a6b0aea9e11572142905b43e2b0228822f162)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3517.jpg&hash=af76fa44650c974cdc2746f1fb3e080e7e6fe3ec)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3565.jpg&hash=63afa5da7ad397af7311bd250813b9f2368c9dff)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv715%2Fea187%2Fbus%2520pictures%2F100_3573.jpg&hash=98d3ce4e216ada06343ddd4cb67d0efe017aa17c)
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: hargreaves on June 12, 2008, 07:12:49 PM
will update with some pics this week
Title: Re: raising the roof
Post by: ea187 on July 02, 2008, 11:25:44 PM
no updates posted yet but i will testify that this thing looks 1000 times better now with some paint