Hey guys,
I was reading the "leveling" thread and got thinking about the Air Compressor (Sears) I bought to get the air up before I start up.
I'm not sure how many Hot Rodders or Car Nuts we have here but, what about the little Air Compressors they use for air ride suspensions in Hot Rods and Fart Can cars that are "slammed on the ground"?? It's my guess they would work, but maybe they won't for some reason. If they would work, they are small, compact and light. There are obviously different sizes depending on the cfm's you need. Anybody used one yet?
Curious yet again,
Chaz
I have two aux. compressors but only carry the one that will go to 125 PSI...both for the tires and the air suspension.
Bob
This was discussed at length a long time ago here. I didn't have much luck quickly trying to locate the thread. But as I recall, the consensus was that those air compressors are great for airing up before starting or for maintaining air while parked. And in an emergency situation they might briefly serve as a backup to a failed main compressor on level ground. But only with infrequent braking and certainly not on any grades (they don't have the volume capability to support repeated braking).
No I haven't. Actually quite a good idea as it allows us to '"boggie" quickly in an emergency. We can also air up quietly (?) and sneak out of the campground without paying the bill. He he he, just kidding. :) :) :)
QuoteThis was discussed at length a long time ago here. I didn't have much luck quickly trying to locate the thread.
I am familiar with that thread. That thread is actually why I bought the Sears A.C., that some of the other guys said worked well. It does do fine! A little bulky tho.
But I was just thinking that since space is at a premium, I should have looked at the air ride compressors. They are WAAAAAAAAAY smaller. And, I think, quite a bit quieter. It may take them a little longer, but..................... trade offs.............. ya gotta have'em.
Thanx,
Chaz
Some say the reason for a 15 cuft /min air compressor is because while driving you need all the fast recovery available for brakes and suspension.
TU FLO 700 & 750 meet that need. Unless they break... A Carry along compressor to be used for emergency use should be at least 5 cu.ft /min. It would get you off the road if you are careful.
I have a dewalt 4.5 that does the trick but won't air up the bus from dead zero in less than 20 minutes.
It's hard to start working on suspension leaks when you are living in the bus.. The wife starts fussing about the noise and stuff.. Go figure... I know where mine are anyway as it's a NJT MC9 I didn't plate the drivers side rear earlier because it wasn't leaking.
I guess I will have to do that before long...
Dave....
We stuck with 1/2 hp to make sure it would not be a problem starting on the old 2000 inverter. If we haven't parked so long that the air bags are low, we can get pressure up in about 10 minutes or so.
Flat air bags can pretty well double the time. Tankless with a pressure switch makes a good combination. Be sure to find out how noisy the compressor will be before buying, if you can. They tend to be loud.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey
I'm not familiar with the little compressors being used on hotrods, but I use a 1/2 horse plumbed into my leveling system for when I'm parked and added a moisture trap between it and the system. I drain it every week and am surprised at how much moisture dumps out of it. FWIW this is something worth keeping in mind for preventing both rust and freezing in the components. Will
On the compressors I've seen lately ( I am in the market for a portable one for work ) there is a db rating so you can compare the noise level before buying
HTH
Melbo
If you are looking, Melbo, check out Air Ride. They make air ride systems for Hot Rods. But I'll for warn ya.........they are "proud" of their stuff!! But It's probably as good as you can get. The bay has some listed also. I understand they are real quiet.
OT- I am looking to put an air ride set up on my '56 chevy 210. If/when I get to it, I'll give ya all a report. But somebody may be able to beat me to it. ::)
Chaz
Quote from: Chaz on March 12, 2008, 05:48:56 PM
QuoteThis was discussed at length a long time ago here. I didn't have much luck quickly trying to locate the thread.
I am familiar with that thread. That thread is actually why I bought the Sears A.C., that some of the other guys said worked well. It does do fine! A little bulky tho.
But I was just thinking that since space is at a premium, I should have looked at the air ride compressors. They are WAAAAAAAAAY smaller. And, I think, quite a bit quieter. It may take them a little longer, but..................... trade offs.............. ya gotta have'em.
Thanx,
Chaz
>
http://www.suicidedoors.com/AirManagementCompressors.php
Don't look at thier prices on air fittings. ;)
Ed
for those with 24 volt/28volt systems You might consider some of the military surplus from aircraft systems etc. There are some very high quality compressors for very reasonable prices. The reason only nuts like us have the desire for 24 volt air compressors. John
I don't remember if this was brought up in the previous thread, but ensuring that you DO NOT bypass the air dryer is something that one should pay attention to.
An electric aux compressor can be plumbed in parallel to the prime-mover's compressor with check valves (or by using a dual check valve which is two check valves built into a t-fitting - how convenient!) to ensure the air doesn't find an easier way out than the air tank ;). Keep in mind that the Governor is air powered and will still operate the "unloader" for the engine's compressor (pressurized control line = unloaded/purge) - if you tap in a standard air-brake brake light switch to the coil of a normally closed relay, you can use the factory governor to opperate the aux compressor demand (so that it won't turn on the compressor if the tanks are already full).
Most shop or other electric compressors have an electric pressure switch which will cut off the compressor motor when the tank hits a certain pressure (I say "most" because I've seen some of the large one that have a standard "D-2" type governor, and run the motor continuously). This can be retained - but keep in mind that if your governor unloads the compressor and tells the air dryer to purge at 120PSIG but the electric air compressor's switch doesn't turn off until 125PSIG or 150PSIG - the compressor will never turn off by itself (and this may impact the dryer's dessicant regeneration "purge" cycle).
Cheers!
-Tim
Here is a link that a buddy of mine has in his jeep. I have not seen it but he tells me they are tough and work great. Lots of ways to go. http://www.wheelersoffroad.com/viair.htm
HTH,
Paul
About 12v air compressor
1) Battery power pump is good for direct coach power source.
2) 20% duty cycle @ 100 psi is not good
3) .88 or 1.27 cfm is very slow
4) Cost more than higher 4.5 cfm at 110v ac.
5) Smaller than larger 110v ac ones
Battery power unit are usually not design to run more than 20 minutes at a time so it can cools. They have no good air flow thorough winding for continues running time. It not designs for your large bus air storage tanks. Unless you want maintain over night air pressure for very small leakage or very small supply of air source.
Example it would take about 20 minute with 4.5 cfm as quoted from the DrDave's above post....12v pump would take about 3.54 to 5.12 times longer running time to meet what a 4.5 cfm @ 100 psi.
Remember always look for compressor for cfm at what psi with good cooling fan. You want one to be able to pump at least 125 psi. Look for greatest cfm for the money at 100 psi. @ 4.5 or greater at 100psi is the bus's favorite in the practical sense.
Also remember to double fuse rating for air compressor's starting power requirement.
I would suggest looking for ones that is oil-bath crankcase version. Also look for ones that motor frame is metal case....not plastic. In time plastic will warp to cause armature clearance to stator to touch and burn up. And motor is direct drive to pump for compact design, however it nosier than belt driven version but it physically somewhat larger unit. Of course belt drive is one more problem to keep in check for tension.
So find a unit that fix your need such as pancake version take up little more room then square package unit.
Caution what ever you do put in a one-way check valve in circuit and allow some cooling air around compressor.
As per Tim Strommen posted...by all mean do what he said.....otherwise you are going to get moist into tank after dryer to cause freeze up in colder climate unless you drain check it for water every time you pumped with aux. pump.
FWIW
Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
Viar compressors are good for their purposes. The top model I have seen listed is rated for 100% duty cycle and is available in 150 or 200 psi models. BUT, it is only rated at 1.66 cf/min. In one listing, I even saw something that puts the 100% duty cycle rating into a suspect light, in my opinion. That listing stated that it was only warranted for connection to tanks up to a maximum of 5 gallons. :-\
Chaz. I think I beat you to it. I put air suspension in my '56 Chevy in the early '90s or late '80s At work we were developing air springs and they had some spare units out of a Lincoln. I installed them on both axles. I took them off the rear a few years ago (wanted to change the design a bit), but the fronts are still on and working great.
To keep the thread on subject, I tried a few 12V compressors (not the giant ones that they sell today), but the volume was way too low for what I wanted. I now use a air conditioning compressor and it works great. I can kick it in with the clutch when I need air.
I have thought about attaching an AC compressor to the generator belt drive. Would not be a huge job. You could put an extra tank with a pressure shut off switch to control the clutch and have a pretty neat system.
Jim
Jim.....have a question...who make A/C compressor without oil saturated with air?
For those are unfamiliar:
A/C (air conditioning) compressor and air compressor are two difference types of compressors.
1) A/C compressor is equips with inlet at crankcase and outlet at the cylinder head.
2) Air compressor is equips with inlet and outlet only at cylinder head.
Yes...you can use A/C compressor to pump air but need to add crank oil a lot more often then straight air compressor with oil in cranckcase. And the air pressure storage tank will accumulates more oil sooner.
However you can add oil separator at outlet and have air inlet go thorough oil bath before A/C inlet to keep bearing & reciprocating parts from wearing out.
Older style belt driven A/C compressor that run much slower RPM with vertical piston use less oil than high speed & horizontal or vertical version. I use them (older belt type) on my dad farm...it was home-made in the 40's.
Not get the term of a/c and ac mix up
1) A/C or a/c is air condition
2) ac is alternate current
FWIW
Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
Jerry, I use a York compressor. When I first installed it, I put a paper type air filter (like a paint gun would use) to trap the oil. Never really got much. Have never added oil since I installed it several years ago. Have not used it much in the past couple of years, but before that, I used it a lot.
Jeep type folks have used these compressors for years. As you know, they air their tires down for the off road activities and they have to air them up for the trip home. They also carry some air tools to fix all the stuff they break.
A great site with lots of good information is: http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=261434
A commercial site is: http://www.onboardair.com/kits.htm
I still think that putting one on quiet generator would be the way to go. Reasonably high CFM (a York 210 is rated at 4 CFM at 90 PSI at 1200 rpm and can put out more at higher rpm), quiet (assuming the generator is quiet), and built to run for long periods of time under some pretty high temperature conditions. I don't think it would need to be run through the air dryer, if it had its own "wet" tank and the owner was careful to open the drain valve at reasonable intervals.
Jim
Thanks for your responding Jim.
Big box York pump is OK as long it in vertical position for air pump. It has inlet & outlet on top like regular air compressor pump.
I was not aware that oil doesn't mix in air using York (box style) compressor. All other version such as rotary, horizontal via wobble cam shaft that being uses in all GM and some of others brands of auto.
Thanks Jim for update....even it been made for several years but never realize that it build like a regular air pump with no check valve in piston.
Jim ...Then this would be ideal with electric clutch to connect to pressure switch or turn off completely.
Just be sure if any one want to use this version for air pump is to mount it in vertical position or you will have oil in air. Otherwise for A/C compressing 134a or 22...it can be in horizontal position or vertical.
I suggest others bus nut to read Jim's link and this link:
http://coloradok5.com/york.shtml
It will explain that only York box type is good for air compressor.
There you go fellow bus nuts....air compressor to your generator engine with pressure switch to air up bus before start big engine.
If you look for used one from wreck auto or truck...be sure to look for gray color oil deposit around inside tubing and fitting....few drop of that oil onto clean white tissue paper to see if any particle of shiny metal power. If not then it may be a good unit.
FWIW
Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
I have had the "old" York type compressor on many vehicles for many years each and all were trouble free. I have friends that installed them as air compressors and they held up for years. I guess that all is pretty well proven. Bye the bye those compressors last every bit of 4 days when they are hard mounted to a BIG cat earth mover according to a friend that was in the A/C bus. Could only get the 'wobble plate" version to live in that environment of harsh vibration and shock. Made a ton of cash changing out the Yorks out in the desert east of San Diego during the freeway construction boom and got so sick of the heat and dirt that he started putting in the wobble and then he worked himself out of a job..
The cylinder/wobble plate is really much more complicated and costly to mfr. but I think it is way more efficient and can be had in really large displacements in a small space. I think Sojourners advice to add an oil injector and separator might bear serious consideration. Harbor Freight has the injector for really cheap and if their quality (suspected) bothers you, buy three on sale. I still have two injector ($19 each) spares after two years of use on the first one. The reduced spatial requirements and lower start/run torque drain is a serious concern, at least to me. I am in the process of converting to a wobble in my old S&S just for the better mileage caus nothing will pause that 440, gotta love that gas engine, Dodge. I take it that the wobble and the York have the same compression ratios for 22.
Just some thoughts and reflections,
John