Hey gang,
As earlier stated, we own and operate a gas station, and every year we see many rigs coming through that are being operated by folks, old and young, that have no business driving a car, much less a rig of 30+ feet. Many are also pulling a trailer, some 2! They have trouble getting into the gas lanes, they can't competently back up, they block service lanes and impede traffic in their attempts to get fuel. They are a danger to themselves and others.
I understand that the RV industry does not want potential new owners to have to carry a special license to operate these rigs, but does anybody else think that you ought to have to hold a special license before you can pull out on the road in a 40' rig?
I'd like to know the statistics on new RV owners and accidents within the first 2500 miles of operation. I read on another bus conversion site about a new owner who picked up their Skoolie conversion and knocked off a window unit A/C the first time he made a RH turn, hung it up on a light pole!
Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO
I think that if you opperate a vehicle of X length or y weight you should have to get a special license.
the ONLY reason that R/V owners do not is due to the RV Lobby as with the inception of the CDL program prob 80% of people buying new RV's would fail to pass the test...or perhaps even the medical
as for the schoolie and window A/C
you should't hang a window A/C on a bus......probably was overwidth anyway...LOL
Ask any RV dealer how hard it is to drive a large DP. "Just like a car, only bigger. No problem". Then the saleman will let you drive it around the block and tell you that you're ready to go anywhere.
Len
My thoughts on drivers and special licenses is this (even for old people driving cars )
A personal vehicle should be able to be operated without a special license HOWEVER when a person is stopped or has an incident their driving skills should be checked.
Old drivers in cars or RVs or even young drivers who have no regard for laws or consideration for other drivers may need to be schooled or tested.
Just my opinion.
Melbo
What's crazy is in Calif (course there are alot of crazies out here anyway) is that with a normal class C license, you can drive up to a 40ft motorhome AND pull up to a 10,000lb trailer behind (overall length-65ft). So now, someone that knows nothing about a bus or air brakes can jump in a 40ft'r and go on down the road! If over 40ft, then a non commercial class A is required with a medical certificate.
In my opinion, if the motorhome, or complete rig with trailer is over 26,000lbs, if it has air brakes, then a class A non commercial with medical certificate should be required. Personally, I still have an active class A commercial license with active medical card. Good Luck, TomC
Frankly, I don't think overregulating does a damn thing except generate more money to be wasted by the politicians. It certainly hasn't done away with problems in the trucking industry. A good percentage of those drivers shouldn't be allowed on a tricycle,
let alone herding 80,000 lbs down the interstates. At least most of the RV owners are not driving under the influence of drugs or
lack of sleep! But I think the worst drivers in the country are your common everyday automobile driver.
If you really want to improve safety on the roads, then every driver in the country should be required to take a refresher course every year or two that includes classroom and behind the wheel training. The government now makes kids spend hundreds of dollars to get training before they can get a license. The force them to take driving tests that don't mimic the real world, and fail them if they so much as touch the curb with a wheel. But many of their parents have never had training in their lives, and they're the ones who have to ride with the kids when they have their learners permit and effectively teach them how to drive a vehicle "properly". They're the bad examples the kids follow when they cut them loose at 16 with their unrestricted driver's license.
My daughter got her license in Dec, and while she scares me to ride with her, she's a far better driver than half the people I used to be amongst while driving to work on the 3 lane interstate.
I have held licenses in several states, including a class A license at the age of 18. I've driven everything from OTR semis to ambulances to bulk fuel trucks. The only driving test I've ever had to take was when I got my current class B CDL license in 1994, and that was only because I didn't go renew my class A when they instituted the new CDL rules in 1991 and instead let it expire. That was a dumb move on my part. I know I could benefit from a refresher course. I took a few emergency driving courses when I was an EMT, and they were very helpful in my personal driving as well.
Maybe the rv manufacturers should be required to develop a driving school at their expense that all potential buyers must pass before they can purchase a large motorhome.
And maybe the laws in the country should be uniform from one state to another, so everyone is playing with the same rules.
I agree, the last thing we need is more regulation!
First off, make everything an even playing field, every state seems to have their own rules. After that make a uniform agreement as to what really needs to be regulated. Maybe it's wise to pass more tests if you plan to drive something as large as a bus but I see far more accidents caused by the average Joe who has a small amount invested in his car than someone with a whole lot of money and labor in their bus or MH.
Take someone who owns a new Monaco for example, they very likely have quite a bit of driving experience and are also unlikely to risk their investment with stupid driving and tend to be pretty careful.
Personally, I plan on taking the CDL just for myself.
I sometimes wonder where all the terrible drivers come from as it seems like everybody says they are a good driver and the problem is the other guy. Not picking on Craig at all and I am sure he is a good driver.
I have ridden with one person in my life that I refuse to ever ride with again. He tailgated everyone, switched lanes constantly to gain even a 5 foot advantage, and waited til the last second to slam on the brakes at intersections. He has totaled one car that I know of.
I know I'm not a perfect driver, but I have no tickets ever in 17 years of driving. I may be too conservative at times, but I would rather have someone behind honk instead of pull out in front of car with too little space. I have also been forced to exit freeways because I refuse to merge over into a truck driver's safety zone or merge in between two cars with only a few feet in front/behind my car.
Hold the Phone....
Although I m one of the many with commercial driving and training specific to buses
I personally probably would not qualify for medical reasons if you go by CDL requirements.
What I think should be a standardized requirement is that anyone who drives anything over
30 feet or 80 inches wide should have a rider to their license for completion of at least 2 weeks training on oversized vehicles. Not necessarily to CDL specs, But a training and qualifications test to be completed. I could see that in many cases the qualification would need to be tested every 3 years
even if by minimal standards.
I am sure that this would upset a whole bunch of people. But when you consider the safety of some minimal training I would imagine that many people would appreciate knowing that the guy in the motorhome, bus or truck of any kind at least is loosely qualified to drive.
On the enforcement side, I don't know how that would work. Nor the incentive side of it unless you gained a discount on insurance if you had training. I would hate to see a lopsided system that caused undu grief through inept law enforcement which is probably what would happen.
For many Bus conversion owners and prospectives, Having a standardized training would be a worthwhile and valuable thing. Maybe someone can put a plan together and get some sponsors that could host a traveling road show that teaches the basics and puts owners in a large parking lot for basic handling and driving training.
Generally I am against more RULES over who can drive. But I have spent many miles in fear that the other guy who has no clue how to handle his/her rig is going to do something stupid and catch me up in a mess on the road. I have seen some scary stuff out there...
I dunno, Just my rambling opinion.... I would pay $50 a year extra.
Dave....
I would probably have to give up my bus if special licenses were required to drive one. It isn't that I couldn't pass, but I doubt I could convince my friends to pay for and take a special test to drive my bus.
My trips are such that I simply could not do all the driving and need my friends to drive. My friends are wierd sometimes and would probably drive their personal vehicles 4,000 miles and sleep in a tent instead of get a special license.
One of the most valuable courses I ever took was my motorcycle safety class. Bikes were supplied and it cost a whole 25.00! I had a great amount of fun disagreeing with the instructors about where the controls for brakes, gears etc. were. My first bike at the time was a 1945 Harley Davidson built for the Army so I really had them stumped. As for driving our RV/coaches, I think a course would be great. I don't think a real medical certificate is necessary, until maybe beyond a certain age? I don't want to seem discriminatory about that at all. I'd have no problem having to pass one myself. :) I was lucky in that my friend - a truck driver of 39 years with more miles going backwards than I have forward) taught me the in's and out's. It was still quite an experience towing a 16ft boat and trailer behind my bus on the first turn. No problems, did great but it was amazing to see how long it takes to make a turn. I think that some states (California?) limit the length of RV and trailer. Can anyone speak to that? A 40ft (45?) and a 30ft car hauler probably should have some sort of permit/certification or insurance company incentive.
I'm the last one to lobby for more regulation of any type, but it is a problem. The ATV industry has instituted training programs and advertise their recommendation that all operators take such a course. Seems like the RV industry could do something similar, like buy your rig from us and get training for free. Even a few weekends in a parking lot with some pylons could help. Seems like slow, close quater manuvers and descending grades are where I see the most blantant lack of ability and understanding. Another problem is the "I'm bigger than you, so get out of my way" attitude. I try not to get in the way or block myself into a situation, but seems like I'm in the minority from waht we watch every year here at the station. Some pre/post education here would be nice as well. What ever happened to "the Golden Rule"?
Doug in snowy Gunnison
Reddog, you just reminded me..
Some RV companies do have training courses at the factory rallies. Some very good friends took it a few summers ago, and I remember Julia being excited about the backing up excercises. I think they have a Newmarr.
Quote from: belfert on January 09, 2008, 09:53:16 AM
I would probably have to give up my bus if special licenses were required to drive one. It isn't that I couldn't pass, but I doubt I could convince my friends to pay for and take a special test to drive my bus.
My trips are such that I simply could not do all the driving and need my friends to drive. My friends are wierd sometimes and would probably drive their personal vehicles 4,000 miles and sleep in a tent instead of get a special license.
That wouldn't be a problem. If you get the training you would be able to instruct your auxillary drivers
to operate your coach. Since you would be there anyway I wouldn't worry other than walking them through the basics as needed for your trips. I was only thinking that the primary owner/driver(s) would be the ones with the extra training, Who you trust after that is your concern. Having one person qualified and in charge would work.
We have been over this subject many times from the standpoint of whether a CDL is required. However, the subject of should it be required is discussed much less often.
I have a class A CDL and think that some form of testing should be required.
At a MAK rally in Laughlin several years ago there was a fellow who made a presentation on this same subject. His thesis was that we RV owners (or maybe just bus owners) should work with the government to develop a less demanding non-commercial CDL type license (maybe something like a class B) rather than have the government force us all to get Class A cards. He basically was run off from the rally by a bunch of folks who took the "pry my weapon out of my cold dead hands" attitude. Indeed, they were quite rude and he never came back (BTW, he owned the original "Madden Cruiser" and it was changed very little from when John had it.
Another story: We were in our booth in Charlotte (FMCA) and a lady came by to look at one of our products. We got to talking and she got quite emotional. Her husband had passed away and he did not want to RV. She decided to buy a 40 ft motorhome and enjoy life. She bought the unit in Cincinnati and drove to Charlotte, hoping to take the "safe driving class". On the way she had three damage causing accidents! The RV dealer put here behind the wheel with no real training!!! :( :(. To this day we wished we have gotten her name so that we could see how she was doing. It turned out that she was too late to get in the class. Also, the class, a good one, is only classroom and not driving.
Back to the license. There are three issues that need to be addressed. First is vehicle safety (folks should know how to do a pre-trip inspection), second is driving skills, and the third is medical (some older folks should not be driving, and some older folks are better drivers than young folks).
At the very least, folks should be made to carry a medical card such as that required with a CDL. Maybe not quite so demanding (I barely pass the vision because of bad left eye). However, any good doctor would be able to weed out an obvious person who should not be driving a large vehicle.
So, run me out of town if you wish, but at every show (currently at FMCA in Indio) I will see several folks who have no business driving those monsters.
Jim
At least one of the local community colleges offers a motor coach training course cmplete with a 2.8 mile track with skid pad. One of the colleges offered a specific RV course, but I can't find it now.
There are already a lot of laws on the books that people are not following. If they are not going to enforce these, I do not think making new ones will help. The following link has a lot of great information and we will probably learn that most of us are already illegal.
Tom Hamrick
http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml
I was actually going to post a question about this a while back and forgot. I live in the Atlanta area and have been looking around for someplace to get some drivers training for a bus-sized vehicle. Short of a full-bore CDL class costing $$$ and a couple of weeks of vacation time, there is just nothing out there. I think one of the local RV places has a "new drivers" course (both hours), but from what I have heard, it is more about how to use the various systems (electrical, plumbing, etc.) on the rig than how to safely drive it.
My plan was (once I have a bus or am ready to make a purchase) to pester one of the local (or close to it) guys on here to take some $$ and provide some basic training.
It's not just motorhomes and buses. I have seen many travel trailers in Florida sashaying wildly down the interstate. A 30 foot trailer with a motorcycle and/or generator on the back, hooked to a too small tow vehicle, without the proper hitch. I have also seen a lot of them in a pile of splinters on the side of the road.
Those of us who frequent these boards are interested in learning all there is to do it right and do it safely. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who don't know or just don't care.
Len
The law here states that with a standard car licence you are not permitted to drive a goods vehicle over 7.5 tons - but neither a bus or a RV are goods vehicles so the limitation doesn't apply - but in all fairness it probably should.
Using the standard car licence you now are not allowed to tow anything which seems a totally unnecesary restriction - if it were based on the length or weight of the trailer then fair enough, but an outright ban seems draconian.
All driving licences here expire at (I think) the age of 75, but if you retake and pass your test you can continue driving. I don't think a 'medical' is required, beyond the standard eyesight test
Jeremy
Like anything run by government and bureaucrats, the laws and regulation may have no bearing on the original idea. In Alberta, and I think all of Canada, you have to have an air endorsement to drive a vehicle with air brakes. This is a good law, and when you read the posts on the boards by people who don't know you have to drain tanks and adjust brakes, it should contribute to safety on the road.
On the other hand, for any class of commercial license, you must take the driving test in the class of vehicle that the license covers, but you can drive a 40' motor home when you take the test in a compact car.
I sold my bus because I knew my vision was not good enough to drive it but the government mandated eye test says that my vision is adequate for a class 1 commercial, and in fact I carry a class 3 commercial.
Quote from: belfert on January 09, 2008, 09:48:49 AM
Not picking on Craig at all and I am sure he is a good driver.
I'll be the first to admit I'm not as good a driver as I was 20 years ago, or even 15 years ago. Things have changed. I've gotten older and fatter. My muscles have changed to fat and my reflexes are no longer cat-like :D I also moved to MN and had to learn a new way to drive in order to survive a 60 mile per day commute.
Very good questions and comments. My Crown ex-schoolie-maybe-some-day-motorcoach weights 12 tons stripped, goes 85 mph, (maybe much faster later!) and has six (6) huge air brakes. Stops faster than my Volvo, handles better than my VW Rabbit diesel and is fairly immune to side winds. Time for another annual $inspection$. In Oregon, NO SPECIAL LICENSE IS REQUIRED!!, nor do I have one. This is as it should be. We out/up here are lucky. Someday this will change as we catch up with the rest of the nation.
It is the individual who MUST be responsible for his/her's own actions. Not government. I am 58 and have NEVER received a moving violation traffic ticket. Some other people's driving scares me and I refuse to ride along with them, that plus the little fact that it may be a control thing tooss since I alsos get car sick easily as a passenger. Barfo big time. Ideally, government should intrude minimumimumly in our lives---the reality is that we, the people, get what government we deserve. Thank you. :) :) :)
;)I love the fact that I can drive a motorcycle or a bus on the same road with the same license, This is America.
It's bad enough that they tell me I have to wear a helmet or a seatbelt.
Here's a fun site
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/DrivingRight.html
FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT
As hard as it is for those of us in Law enforcement to believe, there is no room for speculation in these court decisions. The American citizen does indeed have the inalienable right to use the roadways unrestricted in any manner as long as they are not damaging or violating property or rights of
another.
Government, in requiring the people to file for "drivers Licenses, vehicle registrations, mandatory insurance, and demanding they stop for vehicle inspections, DUI/DWI roadblocks etc. without question, are "restricting", and therefore violating, the Peoples common law right to travel.
Quote from: HB of CJ on January 09, 2008, 02:47:20 PM
It is the individual who MUST be responsible for his/her's own actions. Not government. ...
... Ideally, government should intrude minimumimumly in our lives ...
My thoughts exactly. I too am concerned about some of the RV drivers I have seen, but to be honest, the ones that come to mind shouldn't even be driving a car, motorcycle, bicycle, roller skates or running shoes either. ;) But giving the government more power to interfere in the lives of private citizens is not the answer in my opinion.
I think the best solution would be for private organizations/individuals to make training readily available at an affordable price. Perhaps some experienced drivers could pick up some extra money training RV owners how to safely drive and maneuver their large vehicles. Might even be something some full timers could offer at the parks they stay at. When I bought my bus from a private charter operation, the owner was willing to take me out to a large parking lot and give me some training on maneuvering and safe operation. It was brief, informal and I was a terrible student, but it gave me the knowledge I needed to safely drive my bus (with pickup towed behind) home, almost 3000 miles, without incident.
I have driven school and charter bused trucks and 747's and have a CDL with multi trailer and bus endorsements. Most of my life i have had a class of license for commercial vehicles. With these big get togethers maybe some groupe shud set a safety diving seminar. I remember those for aircraft why not for RV'x Jerry
perhaps next year at Arcadia everyone who signs up should be required to ru =n a Coach Rodeo corse for time/accuracy.
would be interesting to see the results at least.
also would be interesting to see the difference between guys with backup cams and those who do it old school
I am against all regulations. I know that is an unpopular view. I do think, as others who have posted here, the the individual should be responsible for their actions. Meaning, if I cause you a problem, I pay for it up to and including my life. timely and severe penalties for damages and/or injuries would swiftly put an end to a lot of foolishness.
Don't flame me, I'm just crazy enough to not care and I am not going to change my mind. ;D ;D
TOM
I agree with Tom in Principle,
unfortunatley we live in a society where people do not take responsability for thier actions......and in many cases many people do not have the where-with-all to cover any damages they may inflict.
I have know people who have been in accidents with damn near 1 million in medical expenses alone not to mention lost work etc. not too many folks can buck up 1 million in a decent ammount of time.
Drivers on the road damage other people's property for many reasons. It may be poorly maintained vehicle, unqualified driver or just plain careless. Regardless of the reason, they do cause harm to others. They may even kill themselves in the onslaught (it is not an accident) but since they didn't carry insurance and their only asset is their now demolished vehicle there is no compensation for the ones they harmed.
If your attitude is 'screw you, I'm Ok' it is a sorry reflection on modern society.
Just ran across this RV driver training school in Bronson, MO. I have no connection with them and don't know about them, but someone out there in the PRIVATE sector is providing the training. So, how many are going to sign up?
http://www.rvtrainingschool.com/
Gary D
Hello just today in the latest FMCA january edition they post all state motorhome requirements with respect to length ,towing length, speed limits, etc Driver license class required and the last column is a reciprocity agreement with the other states as to the acceptance of your license in that state.
That issue also gives all the 2008 vehicles that are towable.
happy bussin mike
If the reason for signing up is as stated on the website...
"Is driving your recreational vehicle an intimidating experience?
Are you frightened every time you drive your motorhome? 5th wheel? travel trailer?"
...I won't attending.
Jay
87 SaftLiner
Quote from: Jeremy on January 09, 2008, 11:44:13 AM
The law here states that with a standard car licence you are not permitted to drive a goods vehicle over 7.5 tons - but neither a bus or a RV are goods vehicles so the limitation doesn't apply - but in all fairness it probably should.
Using the standard car licence you now are not allowed to tow anything which seems a totally unnecesary restriction - if it were based on the length or weight of the trailer then fair enough, but an outright ban seems draconian.
All driving licences here expire at (I think) the age of 75, but if you retake and pass your test you can continue driving. I don't think a 'medical' is required, beyond the standard eyesight test
Jeremy
Ohh.... Then how do you explain "TOP GEAR"....I guess that doesn't count. Some of the antics those guys pull would get them locked up here just for the safety infractions....( See the camping episode )..
Just Kidding....
Quote from: Stan on January 09, 2008, 06:45:13 PM
If your attitude is 'screw you, I'm Ok' it is a sorry reflection on modern society.
I don't think anybody here is saying that. And even in the larger scope of all people who are against over regulation by the government, I doubt there are even 1 in a 100 with that attitude.
I, and evidently a few others, simply believe that government intervention into private citizens lives is not good for the individual or the whole. There are better ways to deal with the problem. I think if convenient and affordable training opportunities were readily available, RV owners would voluntarily take advantage.
Quote from: Stan on January 09, 2008, 06:45:13 PM
... but since they didn't carry insurance and their only asset is their now demolished vehicle there is no compensation for the ones they harmed.
That pretty much demonstrates the ineffectiveness of government intervention since most states (if not all), legally mandate insurance. Yet there are so many uninsured motorists that the rest of us have to double up and carry "uninsured motorist" coverage as well.
Quote from: TomCat on January 09, 2008, 07:37:12 PM
If the reason for signing up is as stated on the website...
"Is driving your recreational vehicle an intimidating experience?
Are you frightened every time you drive your motorhome? 5th wheel? travel trailer?"
...I won't attending.
Jay
87 SaftLiner
Yup, that is an example of bad marketing. They will get a few terrified souls to sign up but not most drivers. The pitch needs to be done from a positive standpoint. For example:
- Learn to maneuver your rig like a pro!
- Learn from an expert on how to improve your chances in a panic stop.
- Be able to impress others with your backing skills.
- Improve your ability to get in and out of difficult sites.
- Whatever your experience level, we can help you become better!
Be honest on what is offered, but go for the ego. It works on everyone from the timid to the macho.
(yes, I used to work in marketing)
Quote from: DrDave-Reloaded on January 09, 2008, 07:51:42 PM
Quote from: Jeremy on January 09, 2008, 11:44:13 AM
The law here states that with a standard car licence you are not permitted to drive a goods vehicle over 7.5 tons - but neither a bus or a RV are goods vehicles so the limitation doesn't apply - but in all fairness it probably should.
Using the standard car licence you now are not allowed to tow anything which seems a totally unnecesary restriction - if it were based on the length or weight of the trailer then fair enough, but an outright ban seems draconian.
All driving licences here expire at (I think) the age of 75, but if you retake and pass your test you can continue driving. I don't think a 'medical' is required, beyond the standard eyesight test
Jeremy
Ohh.... Then how do you explain "TOP GEAR"....I guess that doesn't count. Some of the antics those guys pull would get them locked up here just for the safety infractions....( See the camping episode )..
Just Kidding....
I haven't seen the camping episode, but I can imagine what it's like. Top Gear does deliberately try to wind-up the anti-car lobby, and all power to them I say.
Regarding towing specifically, fortunately I (and the TG presenters) am old enough to have a car driving licence issued before the towing restrictions were brought in - and of course you can pass an extra test to get 'towing' added to your licence. Good thing too, as I would guess that 80% of our RV industry is based around towing trailer tents or caravans.
Jeremy
hey folks
most everyone starts out by sayin, "no more regulation". then purport that drivers ought to be forced to do such and such. how does that work?
Quote from: HighTechRedneck on January 09, 2008, 07:56:46 PM
I, and evidently a few others, simply believe that government intervention into private citizens lives is not good for the individual or the whole. There are better ways to deal with the problem. I think if convenient and affordable training opportunities were readily available, RV owners would voluntarily take advantage.
I agree with this statement to a point. That point begins when people KNOW they shouldn't / can't drive a particular vehicle safely but still drive it, or they aren't required to take a course, so they don't. Sure, they should be held accountable for their actions, but what does that do to correct the loss of life, etc that can occur from their actions?
Slightly off topic, but related, is boating. Here in NC, it's regulated as far as required equipment and registration. I have seen the rudest 'drivers' of all in boats. They really don't give a rats a$$. One in particular was a 40-45' cruiser going through Snow's Cut (at Carolina Beach, for any that know the area). It's full of small fishing boats full of families due to all the rocks on the sides placed to help prevent erosion. This particular boat was going so fast with such a wake that several small boats washed up onto the large rocks. I was on my jet ski trying to get away from the wake but was traveling in the same direction as this boat. Did the person in control of this boat know all the crap he was causing? Did he care? Who knows. Did he have a license to revoke if somebody was lucky enough to get his registration numbers and report him? No, there is no boating license. There is no insurance requirement for boats, either. I don't like govt. intervention in my life, but face it, the few out there who don't know or don't care ruin it for those who
try to be good, responsible people.
David
garhawk: It is really quite simple. You let the drunks drive the wrong way on the freeway, without insurance, in a vehicle without brakes and then your children can hire a shyster lawyer to sue for wrongful death.
That way there is no restriction on your right to do what you want! It is all a matter of how many restrictions are necessary and there is no agreement on that point.
Quote from: Stan on January 10, 2008, 07:19:52 AM
garhawk: It is really quite simple. You let the drunks drive the wrong way on the freeway, without insurance, in a vehicle without brakes and then your children can hire a shyster lawyer to sue for wrongful death.
That way there is no restriction on your right to do what you want! It is all a matter of how many restrictions are necessary and there is no agreement on that point.
You are certainly right about no agreement ;D
In your scenario, I think the impaired driver forfeited his rights when he choose to drive impaired. I would forcibly administer a blood test for drugs/alcohol/whatever. If the test came back positive, the driver would be hung on the same highway with a sign noting his crime WITHIN ONE WEEK. No long appeals. No 20 years on death row at taxpayers expense. This would cause two things to happen. Those people who can control their behavior would not engage in risky behavior. Those who could not would soon be dead. Drunk/impaired drivers would soon be an endangered species.
Don't tell me, I already know I am crazy/mean/unfeeling(put your own adjective here) ;D ;D ;D
oldmansax: I wouldn't call you any of those names since I agree with your statement "I would forcibly administer a blood test for drugs/alcohol/whatever. If the test came back positive, the driver would be hung ....". But then I look at your previous quote "I am against all regulations" so you seem to have trouble agreeing with yourself. ;D
Stan,
We are having fun now!! ;D ;D ;D
I guess I should be more specific but it is hard to type like I think. ;D
Absolutely no regulation would mean anarchy. I would not want that. But, with maybe a few exceptions, I would like to see only those laws which hold parties responsible for their actions; meaning anyone does whatever they like UNTIL it affects someone else or someone else's property. When they do, PUNISHMENT (not rehab) would be swift, sure, and severe.
This is way to complicated to debate here but maybe this clears up my views a little.
Now what I REALLY want to know is how do I mount 50 cal. guns in the front of my bus......... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just Kidding..........
TOM
Quote from: oldmansax on January 10, 2008, 06:47:56 PM
Now what I REALLY want to know is how do I mount 50 cal. guns in the front of my bus......... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mine's mounted in the spare tire compartment. The bumper flips up on a hydraulic cylinder. I mounted it on a swivel so I could get wide dispersal.
The grenade launchers are behind the flip up headlights. ::)
Craig -
You're confusing your MC-9 with a DB-5!
;D
I've said for years if you want to check someone's IQ out, just put them behind a steering wheel! (//)
I'm voting for oldmansax!
I was suprised to find out you didn't need a special liscense as long as it is registered as a RV for personal use. I found out at the DMV. I asked her to at least give me the training book.
She did, it was free, and i did not have to wait in line, or take time off work to read it.
I keep it on the bus with the manuals.
I ventured around the block and parking lots, run to store, etc. for a month or two before i ventured out on the highway. First highway test trip was to Harbor Frieght on early sunday morning when traffic was sparse.
then camping at friends houses, then eventually a 2 hour trip to campground.
just my way, I'm a slow learner so had to build my own comfort level.
You could contact these people and sign-up for one of their courses.
http://www.neoplan.de/en/Service/NEOPLAN_Academy/NEOPLAN_Academy.jsp (http://www.neoplan.de/en/Service/NEOPLAN_Academy/NEOPLAN_Academy.jsp)
Quote from: Lee Bradley on January 11, 2008, 08:29:51 AM
You could contact these people and sign-up for one of their courses.
http://www.neoplan.de/en/Service/NEOPLAN_Academy/NEOPLAN_Academy.jsp (http://www.neoplan.de/en/Service/NEOPLAN_Academy/NEOPLAN_Academy.jsp)
And so conveniently located! ;)
http://www.neoplan.de/en/Service/NEOPLAN_Academy/Dates.jsp (http://www.neoplan.de/en/Service/NEOPLAN_Academy/Dates.jsp)
The one in Sachsenring is coming up in April. ;)
Quote from: gumpy on January 10, 2008, 07:31:05 PM
Mine's mounted in the spare tire compartment. The bumper flips up on a hydraulic cylinder. I mounted it on a swivel so I could get wide dispersal.
The grenade launchers are behind the flip up headlights. ::)
I LIKE the flip up head light idea..... Hadn't thought of that!
I considered the spare tire bay for the 50 cal but what do you do if the guy causing the problem is 3 or 4 vehicles ahead???
BruceKnee - Thanks for the vote but I have way to many skeletons in my closet to run! ;D ;D
Quote from: gumpy on January 10, 2008, 07:31:05 PM
Quote from: oldmansax on January 10, 2008, 06:47:56 PM
Now what I REALLY want to know is how do I mount 50 cal. guns in the front of my bus......... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mine's mounted in the spare tire compartment. The bumper flips up on a hydraulic cylinder. I mounted it on a swivel so I could get wide dispersal.
The grenade launchers are behind the flip up headlights. ::)
Oh Sorry... I was thinking "Counter Measures".... :o :o :o
I personally prefer the "Oil Slick" spray unit. Ohh.. wait!! Some of you guys already run with those.. ::) ::)
The Smoke Cloud generator works good too... Downshift and the problems behind you disappear.. 8)