So, early this morning, we started getting a flicker in the lights, seemed like the generator was running as smooth as ever, no voltage drop according to our digital meter, but had us concerned. We ran to McDonalds for a sausage biscuit, swung up to the office to grab a few things and some oil for Genny, just in case, and when we got back to the house, the power was out. Genny was running, but nothing coming out of her.
We shut her down and took her up to the shop, and we're getting no field voltage. Larry suspects the Static Voltage Regulator, but we can't seem to come up with a wiring diagram for the generator. The voltage regulator is a Basler vr 63.4, but that search pretty much comes up blank. The generator puts out 125 amps @ 240. . .trying to remember the brand ???. . . . . . Larry's drawing a blank ::). . . .
(So I google "industrial air compressors" cause he's sure it was the same name as an industrial air compressor. . . after me naming about 50 different brands, I get a hit on a Sullair. . . yayyyyyy,) it's a Sullair generator. . not that this helps anyone tell us what is wrong, ha ha. So, anyone have a clue where to start???? Thanks, Christy Hicks
P.S., Yes, we've been without real power since Monday, and just to kick a woman when she's down, today I get the mail and guess what it is in with it. . .yep, you guessed it, our UTILITY BILL! hahahaha :D
Maybe you need some brushes. It could be an easy fix.
Um, this one doesn't have brushes. . . I wish, ha ha. Thanks anyway though! Christy
http://www.basler.com/html/rscacc.htm
Christy, Try these folks. They also rebuild Voltage regulators and might have a rebuilt in stock. Good Luck. http://www.flightsystems.com/bmk_regulators.html
Bob
Yeah, I already checked the Basler site, but they don't list this voltage regulator in their downloads. . .I'm really trying to find out if there's anything we can check this weekend. Come Monday, I imagine we can find out more info from local companies, but I was kind of hoping that someone on the board might have suggestions for troubleshooting or some wiring diagrams for this style of generator. We don't even know if the voltage regulator is bad yet. . .we're just wondering where it gets it's power. . .or, how to tell if it's the generator head itself. . . that type of thing. Thanks and please, keep swinging at it, ;) Christy
And the most unhelpful post in this thread...
Quote from: Christyhicks on December 15, 2007, 02:03:18 PM
We ran to McDonalds for a sausage biscuit
THAT was your first mistake! :)
(sorry 'bout that)
The alternator is probably a Lima or Kato or Marathon if the unit was manufactured in the US. According to your description it would be identified as a brushless, synchronous, revolving field alternator. This should be on the alternator name tag, along with the DC excitation voltage required.
The Basler 64.3 regulator, as I recall is a small beige colored plastic box a little larger than a pack of cigarettes. Its output is in the 10-50 volt range up to a maximum of about 60 volts I believe and its input excitation voltage is 120 volts. Probably only four connections. Two are AC input and two are DC output.
The engine must be running to accomplish these tests
First, disconnect all the loads or turn off the output circuit breaker if you have one.
Then remove the leads from the VR. Jumper a 12 volt battery to the DC output leads going to the alternator that you disconnected from the VR.
Can not remember the numbers unfortunately, but the regulator case should be marked. You should then get about the normal output from the genset. Somewhere in the 160 to 200 volt range. Might even be a little over the 240 volt rating of the genset, but not very much more. Polarity of the battery input is not really critical in this test. If you do not get any voltage then the problem is in the alternator.
If you get an AC output voltage, then the alternator is working properly. If you do get AC voltage from this test, then reconnect the VR leads.
The next test is to connect the same DC voltage to the DC terminals of the VR momentarily after you have re-connected them. Do not leave the is DC connected to the regulator for more than a couple or three seconds. This is flashing the field. You should then get an immediate AC output voltage and the unit should continue to output the proper AC voltage when you remove the external field flashing voltage. If you do not continue to get AC voltage when you remove the flashing voltage then the regulator is defective.
There are many regulators available to replace the VR 64.3. Any one that outputs 0-125 volts DC with 120 volt input will work directly. I know Marathon makes an exact duplicate of the Basler 64.3 under the Marathon name.
It is truly a very simple system. If you need me to walk you thru it give me a call at
three zero four, nine two seven, four zero nine three.
Richard
Go back to the basler site here http://www.basler.com/php/download_page.php?section=regulation#VR634UL
You can download the product bulletin and the instruction manual.
Len
If it turns out that you need a regulator and you don't like basler's prices, consider getting one of these: AVR12 from Solesco
http://www.solesco.com/AVRmenu.html
They are cheap ($75-80) and I LOVE them. I've used 5-6 now on various generators and they seem to be truly universal, super simple to install and reliable. There is a hitch, they need to have 208-240 coming in to them to work. If your genset has 208-240 connections it's easy, otherwise it'd require a small step up transformer to create 240 out of your 120 volts, probably in the 300 watt range.
She stated it is connected for 240 volt output, so it should be OK.
If anyone has her phone number, call her and ask her to call me. I do not know if she has power to monitor the computer or not. I can probably work her thru a temporary fix it the regulator is bad.
Richard
Finally got back online for a few mins. . .got your messages, thanks a million Richard. . .I've got your number written down, will print your post out for Larry and we'll attack it in the morn. Your description was so good, I wondered if maybe you were looking over our shoulder or something earlier today! ;) ;D
Len, thanks for the link. Thanks again everyone, and will let you know what happens in the morn. We think the utility guys will have us going in the morn 8). . .they were so close and worked for at least two hours after dark. . poor guys. . .it sure was cold and windy today. . .not pleasant at all for these guys, especially the ones who came up here from the gulf coast. . leaving 80 degree weather to work up here in the 30's!
Oh, and ahem, Chuck, hahaha, you kill me you goof. :D
The good news is, well, we cheat ;). We started the 3200 watt portable genny, (we're currently running off a 4.5 Onan from our old motorhome), while Larry worked his end, I worked mine. . .we took a long piece of SO cord, he wired up a short piece of romex on his end, while I did mine, he shoved his into the 240v outlet on the genny right after I tied my end to the well wires, I plugged the water heater into another cord, and we jumped into the shower.
Guess I wasted that bottle of wine we drank. . .cause I smell pretty anyway. (for those of you who missed the earlier chat room, I explained that I was chilling a bottle of wine outside, was going to ply Larry with wine so he didn't realize how much I smelled without taking a shower tonight. Couldn't cook, so wrapped some cheese up inside some luncheon meat and tried to convince him it was fancy hor-de-vours :D).
Anyway, thanks all. . . going to call it a night. . .will let you know what we find out tomorrow. Christy Hicks
Check all your wire connections, Over the years all my generator failures have been broken wires. Trouble shooting will give you all types of indicated failures but in my experience it has always been a broken wire some where. Sometimes they are hard to find. Maybe you will get lucky
Prather
OK Christy, guess I'm feeling sorry for Larry so I'm going out and start the fans headed East and will start them blowing heat up to you two you probably wish you had come SW by now don't feel too bad it was 37 here this morning up to 42 but by the time it gets to you two it should be low 70's enjoy.
Larry Have fun
LarryH should be there by wednesday this week.
Quote from: Christyhicks on December 15, 2007, 10:13:32 PM
Finally got back online for a few mins. . .got your messages, thanks a million Richard. . .I've got your number written down, will print your post out for Larry and we'll attack it in the morn. Your description was so good, I wondered if maybe you were looking over our shoulder or something earlier today! ;) ;D
Len, thanks for the link. Thanks again everyone, and will let you know what happens in the morn. We think the utility guys will have us going in the morn 8). . .they were so close and worked for at least two hours after dark. . poor guys. . .it sure was cold and windy today. . .not pleasant at all for these guys, especially the ones who came up here from the gulf coast. . leaving 80 degree weather to work up here in the 30's!
Oh, and ahem, Chuck, hahaha, you kill me you goof. :D
The good news is, well, we cheat ;). We started the 3200 watt portable genny, (we're currently running off a 4.5 Onan from our old motorhome), while Larry worked his end, I worked mine. . .we took a long piece of SO cord, he wired up a short piece of romex on his end, while I did mine, he shoved his into the 240v outlet on the genny right after I tied my end to the well wires, I plugged the water heater into another cord, and we jumped into the shower.
Guess I wasted that bottle of wine we drank. . .cause I smell pretty anyway. (for those of you who missed the earlier chat room, I explained that I was chilling a bottle of wine outside, was going to ply Larry with wine so he didn't realize how much I smelled without taking a shower tonight. Couldn't cook, so wrapped some cheese up inside some luncheon meat and tried to convince him it was fancy hor-de-vours :D).
Anyway, thanks all. . . going to call it a night. . .will let you know what we find out tomorrow. Christy Hicks
Hope I was some help. As you can tell I have spent quite a bit of time over the past 50 years on those beasts. I tried to cover the highlights but I have a lot more information that can help, depending on what you find out from the preliminary data I supplied including how to convert to manual voltage regulation if the VR is bad.
Richard
Well, by the time we hit the sack last night, Larry decided that first thing this morn he was going to pull the plate off of the generator head. He had flashed the vr earlier when first trying to figure out if the regulator was bad, so he really had decided that it was a broken wire or something in the generator head itself. ???
Sure enough, today, he pulled the plate off and a wire had come unsoldered on one of the diodes. It'll be a pretty simple fix. ;D
They've got the main wires up on top of the insulators on the entire section of high-line that was down, and they are back down at the corner near our house, so I'm thinking we might have power soon. . . I'll be very surprised if we're not up and running today. :-\
I spent the morning rewiring the blowers on our wood heater and hauling wood. . .got two big carts full, and the sun is out and shining, so the ice should be melting to beat the band today!
Am getting tired though. . . we hit the sack about 1:00 a.m. last night, and I sure thought we'd sleep in late this morn, but we both were awake by 6:00 a.m. anyway. We really can't go anywhere. . need to be here to monitor the generators, wood heater, etc., Getting tired of tripping over extension cords, taking a flashlight EVERYWHERE you want to go, and a million trips up and down the stairs to check the fire, check the generator, switch cords. .shoot, everytime you want to turn something on, you have to unplug something else. . .we're running out of clean clothes. . . piles of laundry building up. . .my back is sore from all the times I snagged my foot on a cord or my hair on something downstairs in my shop, (because I'm so darn tired of carrying a big flashlight with me). . . it's to the point now where I can pretty much go down the stairs in the pitch blackness, take a couple of steps, turn, and go up and down the stairs leading into the furnace room, and then turn and go another 20' or so to the back door to open it for light. . . arrrrrgggh >:( whew. . .have to practice that patience thing again I guess. :D Christy Hicks
;D ;D ;D WHOOOPPPEEEE! We've got power!
Well, finally, late, late this afternoon, they got our power back up again. ;D We ran around plugging stuff into the normal outlets. . .refridgerators, freezer, furnace, etc. It has never felt so good to toss an extension cord down the stairs as it was this afternoon!
I had already ordered a pizza delivered, so we just finished it off and are waiting for the softener to complete it's cycle, so we can take the longest shower ever taken. . .we're talking Guinness Records for this shower! ;D I will be SOOOOO glad to wash that gasoline smell off my hand. . .yep, I told Larry, "You check the oil while I fill her up with gas. " only to have the stupid spout push back up into the gas can so I had to grab it and pull it out before I spilled gas everywhere. . meanwhile, he's checking the oil, and it doesn't need any. . . so all he has to do is put the plug back in! Next time, I'M checking the oil! Yuk! :P
We turned the heat up to 73 degrees and cooked it out in here. . . ahhhhhh, it feels good to sweat! AND I plugged in the heated mattress pad and turned it as high as it will go! Yipppeeee! I hope it's so darn hot that when I jump into bed I have to jump right back out with a scorched backside! ;) :D
Larry just let out about the fifth huge sigh already. . . when you're running on generators, and your parents are doing the same, and you know, if they or you have any problems, you'll be out there in the cold and dark trying to fix them, well, it's just kind of hard to really relax. NOW, we can kick back and relax.
Thanks to everyone for their help and good wishes for us. We did make it through the whole week with a pretty decent comfort level, and we know that the utility guys worked their tails off to get our lights back on for us, so overall, it was an interesting experience. . .notice I did NOT use the words "fun", "exciting", or "entertaining" experience. . . ha ha ha.
Everyone have a good night and a good week ahead, ok? Christy Hicks
Hip Hip Hooray! I am so glad you got the power back on. Now, if those limbs don't pop back up and knock the lines down again. Get clean and snuggly and enjoy flipping that light switch and dumping that flash light.
YEAH! Power...on...PRICELESS!!
We've BTDT. Don't want any more. Still, could be anytime now.
During Hurricane Hugo we spent several weeks without power out here....Hugo the hurricane in '89. That lasted 2 weeks plus.
And a couple of ice storms have torn our power system all to hell. But, in a week and a half it got fixed and we moved on.
My problem is keeping everything from freezing up. We have water in the barn, wash pits for the horses. Home never gets cold enough to freeze up. I've got a Buck Stove in an unvented gas log design. Sucker makes a lot of heat....with or without power.
Glad ya'll are back to COMFORT!! And showers...HOT showers! More better priceless! :D ;D :)
Best, JR
This is for general information, but probably applies to Christy and Larry's generator as well.
Most voltage regulators function the same but the difference in them depends on the resistance in the field windings or the stator windings, if you will.
As a general rule there are 4 leads goig to the voltage regulator, some have 6 but that's a rarity. In most cases there are 2 leads labeled F1 and F2. These are the field exitation leads and generally speaking F2 is - or ground. The other 2 are voltage reference leads (some ore 120VAC others are 240VAC) but even in the case that the generator is wired for 120/240...the sensing leads may still sense only the 120V side of the winding. That's OK.
To test the windings of the generator to prove that it's a voltage regulator problem...connect a quality meter to the AC leads...for safety set it at 240V. You can use a 6V lantern battery to jumper the + to F1 and the negative to F2. You should read a reference voltage on your AC meter. Since you are only using a 6Vlantern battery you might not get full voltage since it may require more than 6v to excite the field...but you have proven that the generator end is OK and the problem is the voltage regulator.
That was simple wasn't it?
Bob