http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-GMC-4905-Scenic-Cruiser-Coach_W0QQitemZ250197481548QQihZ015QQcategoryZ6728QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Looks like they changed it to "Buffalo". If this really is a Custom Coach conversion from new, it could be a very good deal for the right person.
My wife says that it's not me.
Len
it is no doubt a custom coach conversion
"If the motor ran right now, the coach would be driveable" :o Gotta luv a good auction! ;D
If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his .....well you know.... ::)
heck for what he wants for it if it had no motor at all it would be a deal...even with no generator.
It is one of my favorite buses. The seller seems to be forthcoming about its actual condition and I dig the shifter.
WoW !!
This is a "brother" or "sister" to my bus which is PD4905A-333. :D Mine was operated by Missouri, Kansas & Oklahoma Lines (MK&O) as M731 which is still visible on the entrance door (both inside & out).
They must have ordered many of their busses with the "hidden" bogie or tag axle. I've always been curious why they even bothered since it only added 5,000 to the GVW but weighed 2,200 lb?
It looks like this might be a very good deal for someone! ;D ;D
Steve Toomey
pabusnut
JLV,,,,, time to call up DERF and confirm that the Delivery roster is correct.
History is correct it's a ex MK&O P8M4905A.
jlv ;D
Think this might deserve some extra research......most of the units that went to Converters or were sold as shells were listed as No Record........Oddly the next serial number is a no record bus.
Find it odd that MKO would purchase the bus only to sell off well before the normal sell off period.
Do you know this bus John?
Quote from: tekebird on December 13, 2007, 08:39:53 PM
JLV,,,,, time to call up DERF and confirm that the Delivery roster is correct.
Doug -Who's DERF??? PM me if you want. . . I'm the one who provided the history info on this coach to the seller.
The delivery roster I have shows the next S/N as going to South Carolina State College.
Different rosters???
??? ;)
Derf Namyar, ???
(Fred Rayman) spelled backwards.
Fred Rayman is a now retired.He was a bus driver/bus historian for Jefferson Lines/Oklahoma Transportation Company,Oklahoma City,OK.
Fred had a Derf Namyar name plate that he used when he was still driving.
Bus passengers would ask what kind of a name is Derf Namyar?And his reply would be.It's a Gypsy name from Bohemia in Eastern Europe.
The reply back from the passenger would be a very puzzled look.
He would have people thinking that at the meal stop in rural Arkansas to be sure you try the possum hamburgers.
Now you know who Derf is.
jlv ;D
This P8M4905A was converted by Custom Coach new from the factory for MK&O in Tulsa,Oklahoma.
The coach was never used in passenger service only for special charter work for MK&O.
It was sold by MK&O in the in the mid 90's.
This is from Fred Rayman in OKC,OK.
jlv ;D
Very tempting. A 6V92 and V730 would be nice.
Guys,
Please be VERY careful using PD4501 in your subject line.
Unless it actually involves a PD4501.
There are a few out there (you know who you are) that have almost ruined a good keyboard trying to log on, so they could see what it was all about. :D
Think of there feelings and how disappointed they were when they found out it was really the "King of Coaches", the Buffalo, that you were talking about. :P
Cliff
Quote from: FloridaCliff on December 14, 2007, 12:36:22 PM
Guys,
Please be VERY careful using PD4501 in your subject line.
Unless it actually involves a PD4501.
There are a few out there (you know who you are) that have almost ruined a good keyboard trying to log on, so they could see what it was all about. :D
Think of there feelings and how disappointed they were when they found out it was really the "King of Coaches", the Buffalo, that you were talking about. :P
Cliff
Sounds like the "queen of coaches" is jealous of the real deal when it comes to icons of transportation history.
Cliff, If the 4905 was so great, how come it needed a roof raise?
ROTFLMAO
Quote from: kyle4501 on December 14, 2007, 01:27:47 PM
Cliff, If the 4905 was so great, how come it needed a roof raise?
ROTFLMAO
Kyle,
Well!
Let me explain the evolution of the GM coach to SOMEONE once again.......
Since you are somewhat familiar with the 4501, I will start there.
The 4501 was really the first in the great GM hump experiment, it was sort of the prototype, beta model so to speak.
The hump started out half way back, but then the GM Engineers (whom we should not question)
said "we can improve that half hump thing" and thus came the era of the "King of Coaches"
The hump was moved farther forward to a more manly position. And all was well in the GM world.
This position was so good it lasted decades and 1000's, not just 1001 coaches, as some models.
A meeting was held (in secret) of the original GM designers and they were ready to take it to the last level.
But alas, Greyhound, MCI and the whole loss of GM's dominance in the new highway coach market came to an end.
Fortunately, I found some documents stuffed in the air vents of my bus during the restoration process, which detailed GM's plan to raise the entire front end and complete the last stage, of the evolution from the 4501, to the Buffalo or "King of Coaches" as we know it.
So as a tribute to those GM engineers, I brought there dream to a conclusion.
And there you have the answer to "Why I raised the roof"
I would have been happy to show you the documents I described, but they were unexpectedly lost when my exhaust had a terrible leak, I had stored them by the access hole under the bed, tragically thinking they would be safe there.
;D
Cliff
Cliff, I've changed the color of your text to a more appropriate color to reflect your state of envy.
RE: Let me explain the evolution of the GM coach to SOMEONE once again.......
Again, Cliff, I am NOT your dream therapist. How many times must I tell you that just because I actually own a REAL PD4501 does not mean I know everything.
RE: the GM Engineers (whom we should not question)
Of this there is no doubt, but just because you use a few facts, you will not sway the intelligent readers of this board. They are way smarter than that.
RE: "we can improve that half hump thing" and thus came the era of the "King of Coaches"
The hump was moved farther forward to a more manly position.
The 4501's were in main line service for nearly 20 years. How's that for 'manly' stamina & real staying power?
RE: . . . lasted decades and 1000's, not just 1001 coaches, as some models.
Quantity VS. Quality comes to mind here. But I'm not so sure you'd understand quality. Look it up in any decent dictionary & you will see a picture of a 4501. One could also make the observation that the later buses weren't up to performing the work of the mighty PD4501 & therefore GM had to make more just to keep up!
RE: So as a tribute to those GM engineers, I brought there dream to a conclusion.
And there you have the answer to "Why I raised the roof"
And all this time it was to make your head look smaller. Nice attempt at justifying all your efforts tho.
RE: I would have been happy to show you the documents I described, but they were unexpectedly lost when my exhaust had a terrible leak, I had stored them by the access hole under the bed, tragically thinking they would be safe there.
Again, see what happens when the unprepared & ill equipped try to think?
I can only assume the real reason you haven't painted your 'queen of coaches' is because you haven't been able to get an 'envy green' that Julie will allow you to put on it. ;D
Cliff, this envy has just got to stop. Your friends (Yes, BOTH of them) & family are worried about you. Get help soon. I'll even let you sleep in one of my buses (yes, a real PD4501) as part of the treatment. But you will have to bring your own bed as I can't be bothered with details like that. ;D ::)
Ah, the pity. Fellow MCI'ers...we knew that one day it would come to this....a fallout in the ranks of those poor GMC owners. Nell's Bell's and Sweet Lucy Brown! Might this be a chink in their armor? A needle, perhaps, wherein a Kingdom might be lost? Oh, the humanity!
I cannot, in conscience, help but feel that all the hype I've heard about the superiority of GMC buses must now fall by the wayside in light of these disputes.
But, I caution MCI'ers...If they find out that we've discovered their weaknesses they will renew their ongoing attacks at us with renewed vigor. So arm yourselves with the strength of the stainless steel of our steeds and feel confident that it's stronger than, not only the slings and arrows of the others, aluminum.
With tongue in cheek...... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Bob
RE: I cannot, in conscience, help but feel that all the hype I've heard about the superiority of GMC buses must now fall by the wayside in light of these disputes.
HEY BOB! WAKE UP! You were dreaming again!
Watch your self Bob. Even the woefully inept Cliff was able to fix his exhaust system by his self even while working a full time job to support his family. 8) :o
I donno about the credibility of someone who can't even get a muffler for his MCI from the company that is still making buses! ???
How can you expect us GM owners to be threatened by a MCI when they can't even support their own with replacement parts as simple as a muffler? :o
BTW, wasn't the company that made your 8v71 a division of GMC once upon a time? Oh the irony. 8)
And another thing, I'll bet if Cliff put a GM muffler on your 5, it would run loads better. Maybe you should ask him. I'll bet you will increase your chances if you apologise first. ;D
You just wait until I get the orphans on the road. We'll have 'em ready in no time - after all, they are GM's finest. ;D
Some who I knew in my heart of hearts that it wouldn't take long to 'wake the sleeping giant!'
It seems that I have taken upon myself without realizing that not all the Members of this Board are supporters of the MCI goal. How tragic....but let that not divide us...as you have enough division within your own ranks.
I may have my own problems with the ineptitudes of the hirelings at MCI but I shall not be dissuaded in my quest for the original exhaust system. Sneer at me if you will, Oh Ye of Little Faith, for I shall overcome the obstacles placed before me by the fallen ones.
The MCI BusGod's will walk with me through this valley and...we shall endeavor to persevere! ;)
Got that Kyle?
Bob
HEY PICKLE -
Now look what you've started!!
:D :D :D :D
RE: . . . the MCI goal.
Maybe if the goal was quality vs. a vain attempt at greatness . . . ::)
RE: I may have my own problems
That just may be the understatement of the year :o , or is that Jackie's line ::)
RE: . . . for I shall overcome the obstacles placed before me . . .
So, Cliff agreed to fix it for you? You must have found the soft spot in his head ;D
RE: . . . the fallen ones . . .
Are you saying MCI "has fallen & can't get up"? :o
RE: The MCI BusGod's . . .
I thought that was "The MCI Busgobbs" as in GOBBS of grease ;D
RE: ". . . endeavor to persevere!"
My favorite movie line (spoken by Chief Dan George in 'The Outlaw Josey Wales')
Bob, The least you can do is be there for support while Cliff fixes what MCI can't. ;D 8)
Safe travels to Jack's Bash, I wish I could be there . . . .
Quote from: kyle4501 on December 14, 2007, 08:28:13 PM
You just wait until I get the orphans on the road. We'll have 'em ready in no time - ...
No time is when they will be ready ??? I see
I also see where you bid it up to $530 5 times in a row :P Don't worry I'll keep your secret. ;)
At least you won't have to lower the floor to keep from raising the roof! ;D
I guess MCi engineers were just a little bit taller. :P
BOY, Boy, Boys...GMC had the best bus in the industry with the Scenicruiser! That was the first "HUMP' As you call it. As the reduced the size of the hump the whole thing went downhill. The last bus they produced was called the Titan II. Here it is!
And Cliff...I stil love ya! (In a totally hetertosexual sort of way!) (Spoken in a "Manly Man" voice!) ;D
now now....the best bus ever produced was the 4104......although not as distictive as the scenicruiser it was far more successfull and untill the MC-9 was the most produced highway coach in US History.
there are probably twice as many 4104 tooling the highways today that Scenicruisers produced
This has the potential to be the most entertaining post EVER! :D
Where is my popcorn?
Quote from: tekebird on December 15, 2007, 09:40:35 AM
now now....the best bus ever produced was the 4104......although not as distictive as the scenicruiser it was far more successfull and untill the MC-9 was the most produced highway coach in US History.
there are probably twice as many 4104 tooling the highways today that Scenicruisers produced
The 4104 was built to the same awesome standards as the 4501, & is a durable, well built coach for sure.
I'm sure you know that there were legal issues that prevented GM from making more 4501s after the initial production run of 1000 (+ the prototype). Since the 4104 most closely matched the mighty 4501 in the front, it was the natural choice (not to mention they were priced much cheaper). But, alas, they had to play second to the 4501 & as a result, they received routes only when the 4501s had break downs - & we all know that never happened. That is why so many 4104s are still out there, they are essentially new buses. :o
I have a friend who owns both, a 4104 & a 4501. Both are fully seated & functioning. Guess which one is the bus of choice? It ain't the new one. :)
Thank you, I've enjoyed the post, and now am enlightened and filled with wisdom (among other things), expiring minds want to know lol
NAAAA, don;t think so......
the scenicruiszer although Iconic was frought with structural problems and initially very underpowered.....yup more so than the 4104 LOL
the 4104 didn;t see service on alot of main lines because it had more seats and greyhound spent untold Dollars advertising it's service.
Ca't count personal preference in a better bus debate
Besides, we all have heard that the Eagle is the best bus around
Quote from: tekebird on December 16, 2007, 07:17:16 PM
Besides, we all have heard that the Eagle is the best bus around
Thank you!! i was going to say something myself, but it was tooo entertaining to let you all keep debating. :D :D :D ;D
RE:
NAAAA, don;t think so......
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - even if it is wrong ;)
the scenicruiszer although Iconic was frought with structural problems and initially very underpowered.....yup more so than the 4104 LOL
What would you expect? The poor ole 4501's had to do ALL the work. Remember there were only 1001 of them & it was 20 years before enough other buses could be made that the 4501's could be retired. Seems like it took ~10 other buses to do the work of 1 PD4501. What other bus make survived as long in regular fleet service before being sold off? The MC9 was designed from the start as a 30 year / 3 million mile bus, but they didn't make it halfway before they were replaced.
Besides, what some would call 'structural problems' were actually opportunities for load carrying enhancement. How many other buses could carry 4 8V71's plus a full load of passangers with luggage?
the 4104 didn;t see service on alot of main lines because it had more seats and greyhound spent untold Dollars advertising it's service.
Someone has been dreaming again. Ever stop to think why greyhound quit spending $$ advertising the 04? Maybe it the fact that NOTHING could compete with the PD4501 in the real world
Ca't count personal preference in a better bus debate
Personal preference is the ONLY thing that matters
My mind is made up, so don't try to confuse me with facts (real or made up).
The sad thing about the Scenics is that they marked "the beginning of the end" for GMC's bus building dominance. Greyhound management was so frustrated over some of the initial problems Doug mentioned and GMC's reluctance to fix them that they bought this little bus company up in Winnipeg. . .
I don't think there's a busnut alive that wouldn't agree that the Scenic is one of the bus industry's, and, for that matter, pop culture's icons. Similar, if you will, to the infamous RouteMaster Double Deckers in London. I've seen it happen time and time again where a Scenic will pull up alongside an MC-9, and people will flock to ride the old cruiser rather than the 9. This is an obvious tribute to the timelessness of the Scenic's design.
The Scenicruiser was an excellent coach for what it was designed to do - line-haul revenue service. It's PR value alone virtually saved Greyhound's butt in the late '50s/early 60s, even though the venerable 4104s working invisibly alongside them actually carried more passengers. (Simple numbers - there were thee times as many 4104s in the fleet compared to the Scenics.) Such is the power of the Scenic that when you talk to anyone in their 40's and older, and you mention Greyhound bus, the immediate mental image conjured up is that of the PD4501. It's also one of the reasons that coaches are often called Scenicruisers in "for sale" advertising - it's so ingrained into folks minds that it's a trigger that helps pull people into the ad.
Sadly, none of the coaches built since has had such a dramatic effect on "pop culture", and it will probably be a long time, if ever, that it will happen again. Kudos to those who have taken the plunge to save as many of these examples of excellent industrial design as possible - especially those who keep them NOS/OEM.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
I like you Russ!
>>>>>>Sadly, none of the coaches built since has had such a dramatic effect on "pop culture", and it will probably be a long time, if ever, that it will happen again<<<<<
Russ - it may not be too long before the 'ole bus comes back into f(L)avor - what other form of transportation can be readily adapted to alternative fuel sources, easily retrofitted to entirely 'new' powerplants, and have enough room available to allow experimentation with revolutionary new technologies?
Russ,
Boy do you know how to CALM a group of scenic owners. ;)
And your right!
Cliff
Scenicruiser Service :)
Let me add to what what Russ has added to the subject.
I am a very lucky bus person as I have been around the Scenicruisers since 1954. I was able to see the 2nd Scenicruiser that Greyhound received new from GMC to (Florida Greyhound Lines) in St Petersburg,Florida.
My daddy back then was a Greyhound bus driver and I have been many miles with him back in the day's of Scenicruiser Service.
I can remember back many years ago on one of his trips out of Tallahassee,FL to St Petersburg,FL we had a full Scenicruiser and a PD-3751 Silverside behind us working the 2nd section for local pick up's along the route.
It was summer time the A/C quit on the Scenicruiser and my dad told the passengers that the old Silverside had a good working A/C and fell free to ride on that bus.
No one got off of the Scenicruiser to ride the Silverside even with out A/C folk's still wanted to ride on the Scenicruiser.
The Scenicruisers were a fine bus and thanks to some bus historians a few remain for show and tell.
Thanks for Going Greyhound and using our Scenicruiser Service!
jlv ;D
Quote from: FloridaCliff on December 17, 2007, 02:56:59 PM
Russ,
. . . . And your right!
Cliff
Cliff, I knew you would see the light & give up on your little fantasy.
See, I told you so! ;D :o 8)
King of coaches, har, har! that was a good 'un ::)
Quote from: kyle4501 on December 17, 2007, 06:21:56 PM
Cliff, I knew you would see the light & give up on your little fantasy.
See, I told you so! ;D :o 8)
King of coaches, har, har! that was a good 'un ::)
Now Kyle,
Since Russ had to make your point, You might want to use your previous suggestion to me to "Look up quality in the dictionary" and go a few pages back yourself and look up Humility. ;) ;D
Also I beleive he said Your coach was a "pop icon", you know, like Brittany Spears, there was NO mention of King. :-*
Cliff
Cliff -
Oh, please don't drag the mighty Scenics thru the same mud hole that Miss Spears is wallowing in. . .
Reverently, they should stand alongside the Routemasters, the Spirit of St Louis, EMD F7s and the Space Shuttle.
I called them pop icons, Cliff. . . not "Pop Tarts"!! ;D
Quote from: FloridaCliff on December 18, 2007, 12:01:28 PM
. . . . .go a few pages back yourself and look up Humility. ;) ;D
Cliff
I did, & it said something about being reserved for those who don't own a PD4501. ::)
Since I own a PD4501, or two, I'm good to go. 8)
You should listen to Russ. He is providing sage advice. ;D
Kyle said; Since I own a PD4501, or two, I'm good to go.
GGGUUURRRRRR
Or two he says!
Oh well!
By the way...this is what forums are about...keep it up boys!
Jack
QuoteBy the way...this is what forums are about...keep it up boys!
Actually, it sounds more like a grade school playground! ;D
By the way, Buffalo's still rule.
Chaz
Actually, it sounds more like a grade school playground! ;D
Some of us refuse to grow up & like to hang out where intelligence (or what passes as) won't be as noticed :o
By the way, Buffalo's still rule.
Rule what?
Quote from: FloridaCliff on December 18, 2007, 12:01:28 PM
Also I beleive he said Your coach was a "pop icon", you know, like Brittany Spears, ....
Cliff
So that is where the "Scenic" came from and would also explain the lack of drawers :o :D and also we now know why the call it PD...... ??? ::)
Here ya go Kyle. Just in case your "Scenic-Radar" hadn't picked this up yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI3t3NQj7q4
Chaz
p.s. by the way............ the road! ;D
Thanks for the video link Chaz. I always knew you would be good for something. . . ;D
the road? ? ? You must be dreaming too ::)
At least it can't be said you don't have an imagination! ;D
Chaz,
Great Scenicruiser footage. Those old coaches are great! And Buffalo's are way cool too!
Tom
Good looking Cruiser... Sorta defeats the purpose though since the closed off the top windshields.
Quote from: kyle4501 on December 19, 2007, 07:58:02 AM
the road? ? ? You must be dreaming too ::)
Kyle,
You know, the road!
That black surface that the low boys carry you around on... ;D ROFLMAO :-*
Cliff
Quote from: FloridaCliff on December 19, 2007, 08:39:27 AM
Quote from: kyle4501 on December 19, 2007, 07:58:02 AM
the road? ? ? You must be dreaming too ::)
Kyle,
You know, the road!
That black surface that the low boys carry you around on... ;D ROFLMAO :-*
Cliff
Oh, I understand what you are thinking now, but Cliff, you have missed something rather important. It is the common buses that are transported on lowboys.
When a Scenicruiser is transported, it is very much like the pope being carried in his sedia gestatoria. 8)
OK,
Let me set the record straight!
I hope you ALL have had a few laughs as Kyle, Jackhart, Newbee, Chaz, Russ, Myself and a bunch of others, have enjoyed poking fun at each other.
In person Kyle and Myself step it up a notch or two in the teasing, so we both did pretty good here keeping it PG.
I do have an immense amount of respect for Jackhartjr, Kyle and there Scenic projects, There is NO doubt in my mind that they will get them all back to roadworthy condition.
So in a move to reunite all the GM factions again "GMC's are King of the Roads"
And the congregation of Get More Cash said "Amen"
Cliff
Quote from: FloridaCliff on December 19, 2007, 02:37:08 PM
OK,
So in a move to reunite all the GM factions again "GMC's are King of the Roads"
And the congregation of Get More Cash said "Amen"
Cliff
I will be happy to say "Amen" to that...
with one caveat... The 4102's and especially the 4103 "Henry J's" were the older brothers to both the 4501 and the 4905. Without those two models, none of the later models would have been possible! ;D ;D :D :D ;) :) ;)
Dallas
The PD 4103s were great buses, solid fast and simple. The PD4905s probably owe more to the fishbowl than any other bus, however. And the relationship between transit and parlor coach would have eventually led to an RTS-based coach. But it was not to be.
So now one of yours has asked for a 'peace treaty'. What with Arcadia coming up in less than two weeks a feeble attempt has been made for solidarity among the ranks of the GMC guys....how shallow! :D
I take no issue with the Sceni-Cruisers...they are like most GMC's...antiques. :'(
With the improvements made to over the road buses with the advent of MCI's, Greyhound finally found a bus that they could depend on and kept the flow of passengers and packages flowing with a profit. :-*
With all due respect to the dreamers in our hobby, MCI's still rule. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
With tongue in cheek,
Bob
MCI? Many years ago at the airport in Houston,Texas (IAH) the big airport.
Continental Airlines used the MC-5C's ex Saudi Greyhounds for employee transportation.
They had the MCI logo on the front under the windshield.
A fellow aircraft mechanic and my self were standing awaiting the employee transportation for the American Airlines mechanics.We had to ride on Blue Bird's yuck.
Billy asked me Vickers what does MCI stand for.And my reply was Motor Coach Industries.He said nope you are wrong it means More Creeps Inside!
Now every time I see MCI I have to think of Billy's saying More Creeps Inside.
But today it could also mean More Cash Invested!
I am not picking on MCI the owners even though I happen to own a P8M4905A 1974 Buffalo converted coach.
I think the MC-9 is one of the best over the road coaches MCI has ever built.
Only the PD-4104's by GMC can come close to the production and number of years they were built.
jlv ;D
The great thing about this thread is that it has shown that there are often many different ways to look at something. & just because you disagree doesn't mean you are wrong. Just because you may have a witty comeback doesn't mean you are smart ::) :(
That said . . .
So now one of yours has asked for a 'peace treaty'. What with Arcadia coming up in less than two weeks a feeble attempt has been made for solidarity among the ranks of the GMC guys....how shallow!
When I hear feeble & shallow in the same sentence, there ain't nothing GMC that comes to mind! I get a mental image of a poor guy in suspenders trying to explain to his wife why he can't get a muffler for her bus - this is AFTER he talked her into letting him get the bus by convincing her that parts would be easy to get since MCI is still making buses!
I take no issue with the Sceni-Cruisers...they are like most GMC's...antiques.
Bob, you should know all about antiques. ;)
With the improvements made to over the road buses with the advent of MCI's, Greyhound finally found a bus that they could depend on and kept the flow of passengers and packages flowing with a profit.
Hmmmmmm, Is that why greyhound is such a highly sought after means of transportation today & that desireability must also explain the proffit status of the company. ::)
With all due respect to the dreamers in our hobby, MCI's still rule.
Bob, the problem with talking to yourself while dreaming is that no one important is listening (this is something I have learned from personal experience.)
(It's great to tease in person, but later you often find yourself thinking "I should have said . . . . . " So, yes, this is all good fun.)
May this thread never die! ;D
Kyle, I want to adopt one of yer orphans! :D
Chaz,
Thanks for posting the video! What sweet music to hear that ole DD sing.
I have always liked the looks of those scenic cruisers. They just look cool.
We should have a favorite section that includes videos such as this for all to enjoy and easy to get to.
Paul
So now one of yours has asked for a 'peace treaty'. What with Arcadia coming up in less than two weeks a feeble attempt has been made for solidarity among the ranks of the GMC guys....how shallow! :D
no need for a peace treaty Bob, All of the GMC owners have their own preferences, but if backed into a corner they'll fight to the end for any other GMC owner and his/her choice
I take no issue with the Sceni-Cruisers...they are like most GMC's...antiques. :'(
It just goes to prove that the finer antiques are worth saving, unlike the ticky-tacky cardboard cutouts like the MCI MC5A (which they couldn't get right and had to make a "B" and "C" version to try to recoup their losses and cover up the mistakes), which should probably be sent back to it's original smelters and turned into it's rightful place in society as a safety pin or a coffee maker.
With the improvements made to over the road buses with the advent of MCI's, Greyhound finally found a bus that they could depend on and kept the flow of passengers and packages flowing with a profit. :-*
Does that include the Greyhound MCI's that I've seen on fire or being towed because of a fire from I-95 in South Carolina? It's not uncommon to see at least one and usually two or three per week burnt out.
With all due respect to the dreamers in our hobby, MCI's still rule. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
And MCI owners have a right to dream, and dream, and dream....... after all, they don't have much else to look forward to when they close their eyes in the frustration of knowing that no matter how hard they try, their bus will never be a GMC
With tongue in cheek,
Try to remember not to bite down
Bob
Dallas
PS: Keep Your GMC, ALL GMC!
DF
Quote from: Green-Hornet on December 19, 2007, 05:30:23 PM
May this thread never die! ;D
Kyle, I want to adopt one of yer orphans! :D
OK, but you'll have to pass the qualification testing process first.
Shouldn't be too hard, its just something to verify you can afford to provide for the orphan.
To take the test, you just start sending untraceable, unmarked, non-sequential 'hunnret dollar bills in a plain brown box via UPS. When I think you have sent in enough, I'll select which one you can adopt. 8)
Shouldn't take more than a few UPS deliveries (remember there is a 70# weight limit per box).
Sounds like a good deal for me ;D
I have to admit...after this hell uv a day I had, finally checking in at 1:00AM, I was looking forward to see where this post has gone! Ya'll didn't dissapoint...thanks a ton!
Jack Hart
PS...FloridaCliff, ditto!
See most of you 'uns in Arcadia!
Quote from: kyle4501 on December 19, 2007, 07:42:52 PM
Quote from: Green-Hornet on December 19, 2007, 05:30:23 PM
May this thread never die! ;D
Kyle, I want to adopt one of yer orphans! :D
OK, but you'll have to pass the qualification testing process first.
Shouldn't be too hard, its just something to verify you can afford to provide for the orphan.
To take the test, you just start sending untraceable, unmarked, non-sequential 'hunnret dollar bills in a plain brown box via UPS. When I think you have sent in enough, I'll select which one you can adopt. 8)
Shouldn't take more than a few UPS deliveries (remember there is a 70# weight limit per box).
Sounds like a good deal for me ;D
I am not THAT commited to the cause! ;)
1st born son is the best I can do.....hard worker...but will eat you out of house and home.
Gentlemen, Gentlemen,
I understand that most of you are biased, and I understand that. I also realize that is the reason that the finest coach of them all has yet to be mentioned. Those of us that are lucky enough to own one have sat in the background reading this dribble long enough.
The 4106
Thats why it was named the sports car of coaches!
Jim
Jim -
I know of which ye speak - I love the 4106, and own one myself. The very first generation "Sports Car of Buses", as the late industry photographer Bob Redden dubbed them. The RTS is, IMHO, the second generation Coach Sports Car, no offense to Geoff - we've bantered back and forth about it good-naturedly several times.
The sad thing about the 06 is that, even tho it had a reputation as an extremely dependable and economical revenue service vehicle, it came at a time when the industry began shifting to forty-foot coaches, plus the demand for more luggage space to handle increased package express. It also had to operate in the shadow of the Scenics, as well as following the most popular 35-foot coach of the time, the 4104. Not to mention, of course, Greyhound's purchasing more of those vehicles built in Winnipeg, and having to compete with, paraphrasing A. Sloan of GM: "As Greyhound goes, so goes the industry. . ."
The 4106 actually had a better sales on an annual basis than the 4104, when you look at the average number delivered over the life of the coach's production run. The 04 averaged about 724 per year, while the '06 averaged 807. Had the industry not shifted to the larger coach, the '06 probably would have eclipsed the '04 in numbers.
But I will agree with you that they're a great coach, I've been a fan of them since I was a teen-ager and first rode on one with friends from Los Gatos over the hill to Santa Cruz to go to the beach. Don't remember if I was more fascinated by the coach, or the girls that were with us. . . probably the latter. . . no, the former. . . no, definitely the latter, especially Shari B. and her. . . oh, never mind. . . :o
Now, if only we could get new glass for the rear window. . . sadly, just like the Scenic and 4104 folk, it's now made from unobtainium. :'(
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
I know of which ye speak - I love the 4106, and own one myself. The very first generation "Sports Car of Buses", as the late industry photographer Bob Redden dubbed them. The RTS is, IMHO, the second generation Coach Sports Car
I don't think I'm nowhere near the busnut you are to consider something 35' long & sports car in the same thought - unless it it is a trailer to haul it on. ;)
The 4106 actually had a better sales on an annual basis than the 4104, when you look at the average number delivered over the life of the coach's production run. The 04 averaged about 724 per year, while the '06 averaged 807. Had the industry not shifted to the larger coach, the '06 probably would have eclipsed the '04 in numbers.
Hmmmmm, it took ~24 months of production to make 1000 4501's & that was enough to set the standard to which all other buses are still compared. ;D
Now, if only we could get new glass for the rear window. . . sadly, just like the Scenic and 4104 folk, it's now made from unobtainium. :'(
Glass can be had, you just have to spend $$$ for the tooling. :o
The sad fact is that no curved glass tooling exists for these - something to do with storage & keeping up with the inventory of molds costs more than making them again. Then there is the issue of evolving technology in making curved glass has rendered old molds obsolete . . . :'(
seems to me at some point we are all going to have to get together and finance a production run on the rear windows...would be really nice to have the light back there...
I tried to do just that.
There is a fellow in MD that has the upper windshields & teardrops & front windshields for the 4501. I didn't like the tint or his price, so I got a price for new glass with the 'correct' tint. If just 10 had agreed to purchase a full set, we could have gotten the cost down to less than half the MD price.
But most choose to wait until they have an immediate need rather than planning ahead. . . .
I heard from 1 guy that said he'd buy 2 pieces for $150. Holy crap! You'd be lucky to get a windshield for a modern car in mass production for that price! So, that's what you are up against.
If I win the powerball, I'll do it myself - IF Nancy says I can . . . . ;D
For the 4501 creating a need for the upper stuff would probably be hard....But for all the 4104 rear windows, which from what i can tell at least half the conversions have covered with sheet metal, it might be possible to have enough "need" BTW did I misread or are the 4104,4106 and 4501 rear windows all the same? THis would increase the need even more....maybe..
So in a move to reunite all the GM factions again "GMC's are King of the Roads"
And the congregation of Get More Cash said "Amen"
Cliff
[/quote]
Got Mechanic Ccoming
Sorry I could not resist.
Now back to figuring out my German bus built in Colorado. ::)
Quote from: zubzub on December 21, 2007, 09:39:05 AM
For the 4501 creating a need for the upper stuff would probably be hard....But for all the 4104 rear windows, which from what i can tell at least half the conversions have covered with sheet metal, it might be possible to have enough "need" BTW did I misread or are the 4104,4106 and 4501 rear windows all the same? THis would increase the need even more....maybe..
Instead of covering with metal I would use Lexan, or something similar, for the rear. If yer brave enough to take one out and use it for a bending mold then you can follow these directions. Thickness may be an issue but I think you can make your own seals with the foam tape that truck toppers use, or something else.
Vac Forming
this requires heating your sheet too around 260/280c depending on thickness for it too become rubberised. you can read and make your own Vac former at this link http://members.aol.com/GCGassaway/vacuform.htm
bending lexan/plexiglass is rather simple affair
To curve either of these two products
one must invest in a simple homeowners propane torch kit (generally around
$12.00 US). To bend lexan and plexiglass your piece should be clamped
firmly to a strong, stable surface that is preferably indoors. Once you
have clamped the piece begin to heat the panel along the line where you
intend to have it bend. DON'T put the torch too close for too long as it
will cause the plastics to get cloudy or even bubble up. You will know when
the plastic is ready to bend simply by applying pressure to the free end of
your work piece. Large pieces will require the help of a partner who can
apply even pressure along the entire length of the bend while you torch the
plastic keeping a uniform and consistant source of heat applied until you
have achieved the bend or shape your desire.These types of plastics are
also virtually indistructible but they are also a bit more costly. Wall
thicknesses on these products can go up to several inches thick. remember you need too be careful working with HOT and nearly MOLTEN plastics. please get adult supervision if at a young age.
Cutting lexan
Cutting / Drilling:
Tin Snips (Nice clean cuts). depending on thickness!!
Hack saw (don't cut too fast, or the plastic will melt).
"Utility" (or Hobby) Knife and a metal edged ruler.
Do NOT use a scroll saw due to small blade (it typically 'melts' it's way through the plastic). and can cause problems
Can be drilled (best if drilled by hand). i found hand drilling lexan more easy than hispeed drills these too also tend too melt through the plastic and not cut it. Shaping:
Heat.(Softens at about 290-340F or 143-171C)
Use a strip heater (or use a stove element with two heavy tiles to form a thin strip of heat, or your toaster). or heat torch,oven. remember hot plasics need careful hadling with heat proof gloves when i bend lexan. i will warm up the sheet. But the pipe or whatever you use must be clean. the lexan/plexi will take on any slight imperfection on the item used too form the bend. so be sure too use a item that will be use for bending your plastic only and nothing else.
glass is a almost perfect surface for forming over, bowls work well but will need to be thick glass too widthstand the vacum formed when forming in plastic, steel etc etc its a trail and error thing
hope this helps you guys with the crazy ideas for rigs
The big center window in my 04 is lexan. then painted with a picture.
the two small windows would be the problem.
uncle ned
I have some of the smnaller windows still.
Problem is both the outboard sections and the middle peice have compound curves....Read curves two directions simultaneously/
There you go Doug...talking about compound curves in the glass! I bought a compound miter for doing wood working several years ago...messed up a bunch of wood learning that thing!
Of course if I am reading Green Hornets post on bending it...hey, hey, hey, I'll get Kyle, Uncle Ned, and a couple more bus nuts from around here...and practice on 945's rear window!
Jack
By the way, the bus that this thread started out about has 20 hours left. IE. it will be sold tomorrow, 12/22 . Better get ready to get in on it, if ya want it!!
Chaz
p.s. too bad it's a compound curve. I understand tempered glass can be bent quite a bit. On something like that size, maybe as much as 2-3 inches. That is according to the famous Hot Rod builder, Gene Winfield, whom I just spent some time with. (80 years old and still buildin!!)
This is lexan thing interesting, I'm trying to think where else i could use it. My MCI (more cash inserted) windows are flat. :P
guess your high bidder on the bus there kyle, I know how you like your busses to not use much fuel ;)
Quote from: Green-Hornet on December 21, 2007, 10:25:15 AM
Quote from: zubzub on December 21, 2007, 09:39:05 AM
For the 4501 creating a need for the upper stuff would probably be hard....But for all the 4104 rear windows, which from what i can tell at least half the conversions have covered with sheet metal, it might be possible to have enough "need" BTW did I misread or are the 4104,4106 and 4501 rear windows all the same? THis would increase the need even more....maybe..
Instead of covering with metal I would use Lexan, or something similar, for the rear. If yer brave enough to take one out and use it for a bending mold then you can follow these directions. Thickness may be an issue but I think you can make your own seals with the foam tape that truck toppers use, or something else.
Vac Forming
this requires heating your sheet too around 260/280c depending on thickness for it too become rubberised. you can read and make your own Vac former at this link http://members.aol.com/GCGassaway/vacuform.htm
bending lexan/plexiglass is rather simple affair
To curve either of these two products
one must invest in a simple homeowners propane torch kit (generally around
$12.00 US). To bend lexan and plexiglass your piece should be clamped
firmly to a strong, stable surface that is preferably indoors. Once you
have clamped the piece begin to heat the panel along the line where you
intend to have it bend. DON'T put the torch too close for too long as it
will cause the plastics to get cloudy or even bubble up. You will know when
the plastic is ready to bend simply by applying pressure to the free end of
your work piece. Large pieces will require the help of a partner who can
apply even pressure along the entire length of the bend while you torch the
plastic keeping a uniform and consistant source of heat applied until you
have achieved the bend or shape your desire.These types of plastics are
also virtually indistructible but they are also a bit more costly. Wall
thicknesses on these products can go up to several inches thick. remember you need too be careful working with HOT and nearly MOLTEN plastics. please get adult supervision if at a young age.
Cutting lexan
Cutting / Drilling:
Tin Snips (Nice clean cuts). depending on thickness!!
Hack saw (don't cut too fast, or the plastic will melt).
"Utility" (or Hobby) Knife and a metal edged ruler.
Do NOT use a scroll saw due to small blade (it typically 'melts' it's way through the plastic). and can cause problems
Can be drilled (best if drilled by hand). i found hand drilling lexan more easy than hispeed drills these too also tend too melt through the plastic and not cut it. Shaping:
Heat.(Softens at about 290-340F or 143-171C)
Use a strip heater (or use a stove element with two heavy tiles to form a thin strip of heat, or your toaster). or heat torch,oven. remember hot plasics need careful hadling with heat proof gloves when i bend lexan. i will warm up the sheet. But the pipe or whatever you use must be clean. the lexan/plexi will take on any slight imperfection on the item used too form the bend. so be sure too use a item that will be use for bending your plastic only and nothing else.
glass is a almost perfect surface for forming over, bowls work well but will need to be thick glass too widthstand the vacum formed when forming in plastic, steel etc etc its a trail and error thing
hope this helps you guys with the crazy ideas for rigs
This thread has taken a life of it's own. Hope it is still going strong long after the auction is over. ;D
Hope the dude that is selling it knows how much entertainment it has brought so many of us!
Quote from: Chaz on December 21, 2007, 07:49:34 PM
p.s. too bad it's a compound curve. I understand tempered glass can be bent quite a bit. On something like that size, maybe as much as 2-3 inches. That is according to the famous Hot Rod builder, Gene Winfield, whom I just spent some time with. (80 years old and still buildin!!)
I'm not sure if tempered glass is the same as toughened glass, but the rear screen on my bus (toughened glass) was a flat sheet bent into place. The bend was way more than 2-3 inches, but it was a big pane of glass (pretty tall and as wide as the bus).
Jeremy
TADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so who is this Case character, who is going to shell out 5600.00
The last thing he bought on ebay was a pair of Indian moccasins so he is ready to own an old GM bus.
QuoteI'm not sure if tempered glass is the same as toughened glass, but the rear screen on my bus (toughened glass) was a flat sheet bent into place.
It may be Jeremy. Different terms, different side of the pond. Gene said it was pretty cool how far it would bend. Nice to know,
Chaz