Ok you Jake guru's, I understand the principal of Jakes but what I don't understand is the real mechanics of them.
I heard from a friend of mine that he may be able to locate some use Jakes for me. I'm assuming that there is nothing really wrong with used but what I'm wondering is how many parts are there to a kit for a 71 series excluding the switches? What parts might need to be scrutinized for damage or wear or are frequently missing when you buy a used kit? Are there different stages or kits?
I'm sort of guessing that I might not want to try an install myself or am I wrong? What's involved? What adjustments are required?
Does anyone have a ballpark estimate on what a used Jake goes for?
Mucho thanks,
-Dave
Dave I installed mine before I knew better, requires removal of racks, valve bridges, and retorqueing of same, adjusting the racks and resetting the valve adjustments and injector adjustments. you will also need higher valve covers and a bump out in the tailgate. Not for the mechanicly challenged.>>>Dan
He he he.....we, (I) were just talking about Jakes, soosss, here gooosss. A Jake brakes works, (or soosss I was told) by slightly lifting the exhaust valve(s) during the compression stroke. This creates work by compressing the air and heating it. About 70% of the heat stays in the cooling system, about 30% goes out the exhaust pipe along with a boss sound.
This slows down the pistons and eventually the coach. The valves are controlled/powered by the oil pressure inside the mill. A single stage works all cylinders at once, a multi-stage works either 2, 4, 6 or 8 pistons, or a combination of whatever number you have. A dash or stalk mounted electrical switch controls what happens.
Plenty of used Jake assemblies available for the older stuff which we run. You can either buy used and piece it together or buy a complete new, rebuilt or used assembly with everything you will need including the very neat necessary genuine "Jake Brake" switch identity tag surrounding the Jake Brake switch. Does a Jake work?
Yeah. In a light weight coach application, very well in fact. Sossss good in fact that going down gentle hills when icy, Jakes are NOT a good idea. May lock up the drivers. Going down steep hills at speed keeps you OFF the service brakes, which is also a good idea. A Jake can absorb a greater percent of the rated mill's horsepower. $Cost$ anywhere from $100 to $2000 per cylinder. :) :) :)
It's simple
buah buah buah buah buah buah buah buah
See... ;D ;D
Nick-
QuoteYeah. In a light weight coach application, very well in fact.
In my lightweight 4106 I need to modify mine to a two stage (easy to do, just the time involved). I'm tired of hitting my head on the windshield every time they activate. :D
All joking aside, mine can be annoying because it works so well. I added a momentary foot switch so I can use them like a brake and it saves me from hunting for the toggle switch; works great.
Dax, I wouldn't recommend trying to install your own unless you are capable of running the rack.
Used Jakes are fine. You can go to jacobsbrake.com and see all the parts and information you seek I believe.
Personally I would have them installed by a 2 stroke mechanic. There are many on this board. I would have them rebuilt with new solenoids and fuel crossovers. I know that will raise hackles among the "cheap as I can" crowd but you do not want to get them installed and find you have a crossover leak. Crossovers are cheap. I bought a new set for $8 each on Ebay just to have a spare set. There are O rings on the crossovers that have to be rolled in right or you will pump fuel into the oil.
The installation cost will be minimal if you have it done because it is just a little more work when a tuneup is done and you get a retuned bus.
I bought new Jakes for my eagle. They are pretty spendy.
I sold a set of used jakes that came with my 92 for $750 and threw away the crossovers because I did not want the buyer to come back and claim that I ruined his engine by selling him a bad jake.
On my 71 and the 92 the jakes are set to 55 clearance. Detroit recommends 65 and most routinely set them to 60. Mine work great on the Eagle with the 740 Allison. My rig is over 50,000# with the trailer and cars. I can leave the Interstate at 70mph and will have to let up on the jake before the stop sign. Saves a lot on brake shoes too.
Joe, I also ran my valves at.055 and the improvement from the .059 or .063 recommended by Jake was truly significant.
The one thing I can not remember is was this setting for hot or cold?
Richard
Quote from: Barn Owl on October 31, 2007, 09:01:47 PM
QuoteYeah. In a light weight coach application, very well in fact.
In my lightweight 4106 I need to modify mine to a two stage (easy to do, just the time involved). I'm tired of hitting my head on the windshield every time they activate. :D
I could only wish mine worked that well. I have a Series 60 and have had the Jaeks tuned up at a Detroit dealer.
The Jakes certainly do help, but it doesn't seem like they do all that much. They probably are working 100% since I have nothing to compare against. Some of the grades on I80 through Utah I still had to use the service brakes occasionally even with the Jake on high. I guess it was better than some of the trucks where we could smell their brakes burning up.
I know some of the folks here with Jakes have said they can't always run them on high on some fairly steep grades as they slow down too much.
Brian,
I think you need to find another mechanic. I have traveled every E/W interstate several times, including I-80 thru Utah and I do not think there are any grades where I ever had to use the service brakes. This was with a 40,000 pound coach and always with a 4X4 Toyota pickup. If they (the Jakes) are working properly, you will know it!
Richard
One of the reasons mine work as well as they do is because my bus weighs #24,500 dry.
So how many parts are there that make up a complete Jake kit excluding maybe the valve covers? If you were to buy a used Jake from someone how would you know if it was all there and working?
-Dave
Yeah again, a wel-tuned, set up Jake does work very well in a Coach. Another subjective answer; back in 1970 or sossss, (are we that old?) my assigned 1963 Crown school bus weighing about 30000# loaded could come down the Ridge Route (North bound) at about 40 mph at about 2000 rpm in 4th gear without touching the service brakes. That's a 6% grade with 50 kids. The Jake was absorbing more power than the 743 inch 220 Cummins could put out. Pretty inpressive. :) :) :)
Parts include the actual Jake Brake (usually 1/2 are "masters" & 1/2 are "slaves"), same Jake fits both 71 & 92 series engines. Bridges (71 & 92 series are different), different fuel pipes (aka "jumper lines"), longer bolts (to attach Jake Brakes & taller valve covers), and buffer switch. You will also need the Jack Brake wires that have the fittings that screw into the cylinder head to get the wire from outside the engine to the Jake Brakes. Jack
As a Jacobs Engine Brake does its job via using engine compression, it works better at higher RPM.
If the engine is loafing in the lower part of the RPM range, you won't get as effective retardation.
Try selecting a lower gear, get the revs up higher and then try the Jake.
You may be pleasantly surprised!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Jake brakes, in my opinion, are a necessity. On any of the 2 stroke engines, they can be adjusted to hold back your bus on a 6% grade, if not, they are not adjust correctly. When I had my truck with the 8V-92TA, I was going up and down the Grapevine (6% grade for 5 miles) everyday, and could go down the grade with 80,000lb and only tickle the trailer brakes 3 or 4 times-getting to the bottom with essentially cold brakes on the tractor. On any of the 4 stroke engines, they should work very well, especially on the Series 60-they have extremely good Jakes-if not, find someone who knows how to adjust the Jakes.
Now as to how the Jakes work. The Jakes are a hydraulically powered (engine oil pressure) device that mounts over the valve train. When activated, a solenoid opens and allows pressurized engine oil into a chamber that pushes a rod down to the top of the injector rocker arm. When the injector rocker bumps up it pushes the Jake rod up which creates the hydraulic pressure that at the same time pushes the exhaust valve open. Since this happens at the top of the compression stroke, all the pressure from the compression stroke is released causing the rapping sound in the exhaust. On a normal deceleration cycle on the engine, the compression stroke causes the engine to work to compress the air, but also on the down stroke of the piston, causes the engine to pickup speed again with the compressed air, so that's why a Diesel has very little compression braking on its' own. When the Jake is activated, the engine is working to compress the air, but when the air is released at the top of the compression stroke, all that work goes out the tail pipe (causing the noise) and then the engine has to work again to pull the piston back down again under a vacuum. This is why you get some smoke on the initial activation of the Jake because it is pulling under vacuum any residual oil that is normally being held back by air pressure-like in the air box. Hope this helps. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: buswarrior on November 01, 2007, 03:06:52 PM
If the engine is loafing in the lower part of the RPM range, you won't get as effective retardation.
Try selecting a lower gear, get the revs up higher and then try the Jake.
I have a B500 with my Series 60. The tranny downshifts one gear automatically any time the Jake activates. I'll have to try downshifting manually another gear the next time I get to a long grade which will probably be next fall.
Quote from: belfert on November 02, 2007, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: buswarrior on November 01, 2007, 03:06:52 PM
If the engine is loafing in the lower part of the RPM range, you won't get as effective retardation.
Try selecting a lower gear, get the revs up higher and then try the Jake.
I have a B500 with my Series 60. The tranny downshifts one gear automatically any time the Jake activates. I'll have to try downshifting manually another gear the next time I get to a long grade which will probably be next fall.
My goal is always to keep the rpm above 1800 and below 2300.
Richard
On the B500, there is a programming that has automatic transmission down shift with the Jake Brake. You can program it to down shift one, downshift to 4th, downshift to 2nd, or just turn it off for manual selection. Personally prefer manual selection. Good Luck, TomC
Oki Doki, that tells me that If i want Jakes, I get a Bus that Already has them... To much work to Retro fit one :(
Good question.. Thanks... ;D
Paul...
Quote from: superpickle on November 02, 2007, 04:17:21 PM
Oki Doki, that tells me that If i want Jakes, I get a Bus that Already has them... To much work to Retro fit one :(
Not sure why you think this. You can at times find used Jakes for a Detroit at less than $1000 plus labor to install.
Only newer buses with electronic transmissions and DDECs will automatically downshift, but it just means you downshift manually.
Quote from: TomC on November 02, 2007, 03:39:57 PM
On the B500, there is a programming that has automatic transmission down shift with the Jake Brake. You can program it to down shift one, downshift to 4th, downshift to 2nd, or just turn it off for manual selection. Personally prefer manual selection. Good Luck, TomC
Hmm.. The local Detroit/Allison dealer said nothing could be done about some issues I was having with the interaction between the Jake Brake and my Allison with cruise on.
When the cruise and the Jake are both on the DDEC will activate the Jake brake whcih downshifts the Allison. The problem is the cruise will activate the throttle again less than two seconds which causes the Allison to upshift. The cycle then repeats within two seconds which causes the Allison to downshift again. This repeats 5 to 10 times in some case which is really hard on the tranny. The fix is to turn off the Jake when using cruise.
The dealer failed to mention the option of not having the Jake cause the B500 to shift at all. Not that I really want this option as I can see forgetting to downshift. I'm not realy happy with this Detroit/Allison dealer, but I don't have a lot of other choice for Allison work.
Here is the whole enchilada - FWIW
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:X5Y1IIaFK9QJ:rvtechstop.com/articles/accbrk.pdf+Jake+world+cruise+DDEC+downshifts+Allison&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
Call me old fashioned, but....
I prefer to make the decisions about which features engage at what time and under what conditions.
And if a feature is not in immediate use, it will be turned off.
The Jake's job is to engage when you lift throttle. The cruise control lifts throttle, the jakes engage, unless it has been programmed with sufficient speed differential between cruise speed and when the Jakes should engage. Sounds like someone who didn't know what they were doing has zeroed the setting. 2 mph/3kmh between cruise setting and Jake engagement lets you use the Jakes with the cruise without too much interference betwen the two.
As for leaving the Jakes turned on all the time, when the time comes for that obscure disaster that having the jakes engage and retard the drive wheels promotes a rear slide when you suddenly lift throttle in reaction to something ahead, because your habit has been to leave them on....
All that stuff that will give limited traction, Rain, wet leaves, winter conditions, sand or gravel on the road, worn cement in the rain, orange peels, dead frogs, locusts, cow poop, etc, that we won't be thinking about and remember to shut the Jake off.
There have been innumerable accidents, often involving leaving the road, that have been contributed to by the driver leaving the Jakes turned on under less than ideal road conditions, in both crowds, tractor trailer and passenger coach.
As for forced downshifts, having the electronic transmission mind its own business gives you more flexibility in choosing a downhill speed. I've driven them both ways, and the ones that dive for a heavy downshift to 4th or 3rd will not ease on down a more moderate hill. You can't get a balance between the Jake stages and the gear that the dumb thing lurches into. End result, you run faster or slower than desired, or your passenger hollers at you to quit it, or thinks it, if you have said passenger trained to keep their mouth shut while you drive.
We build our own coaches because we are not content with the ideas of others. Why would the programming of our drivetrains be any different?
Do it YOUR WAY!!!!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Richard,
I've always set my Jakes with the engine running and at operating temp.
Others,
I do not have DDEC in my Eagle but I have driven many tour buses that had Series 60's and B500s and they interacted just like my Eagle with the 8V92 and 740.
My Jake doesn't activate until the cruise drops out when above the set speed.
The cruise doesn't know the Jake is on, it only knows to come on and drop off according to the selected speed.
The Jake doesn't know anything about cruise. It only knows the cruise has released the throttle lever and it should activate. When the cruise pulls the throttle lever, it causes the Jake to think you have given more fuel and it quits.
If your Cruise is hooked up to the linkage somewhere downstream of the throttle lever, change it so it only pulls the fuel arm and not the whole linkage.
The only time I would turn off my Jakes would be when the road is slick as BK pointed out.
My theory was and is, make everything as automatic as possible. None of us will ever get any younger or have better memory.
Hope this helps
QuoteThe Jake's job is to engage when you lift throttle.
I never liked to drive like this. Many times on the highway you may need to lift the throttle, but do not really want to slow down. Like going down a slight slope.
I never turned the Jake on unless I actually wanted braking action. Otherwise it was switched off.
Richare
10-4 Richard, that's what I do.
Not turned on unless I want it on.
The brakes work great in a panic stop.
Put the myth to bed.
Believe it or not, the Jakes won't shorten a panic stop.
Figure out the horsepower potential of the brakes on your coach versus the horsepower potential of the Jakes and you'll see the Jakes generate a drop in the bucket.
Safety demands facts, not opinions.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on November 03, 2007, 09:57:45 PM
Believe it or not, the Jakes won't shorten a panic stop.
Braking horsepower aside, any manual transmission will be unable to keep up with the rate of decceleration and you'll end up with no engine braking to help. I found this also to be true when I was running my HT 754 allison automatic.
The only caveat I have to this is when trying a hard stop while going down a 6-8% grade at 60mph. I had to do one of these and found that manually downshifting the tranny to as low of a gear as possible did bring the engine in to play for a little bit. I'm sure it helped some.
I don't have a Jake on the bus (yet), but from my trucking days, I hope I can provide some insight into using one. Anyone experienced with a Jake on a standard knows what happens when you forget to switch it off before leaving the driver's seat. (Engine stall, if you are wondering). It happens because it's just as easy to forget it's on as to forget it's off.
Consequences of forgetting it's on?
- Leaving the driver's seat? Stalls, as noted above.
- Emergency situation, road conditions aren't great? Big trouble!
Consequences of forgetting it's off?
- None. Just reach over and turn it on when you "need" it.
In the interest of safety, I have three points to make:
1. For the above reasons, I strongly agree with the posts about driving with it off until you want to use it.
2. Never depend on the Jake to replace your service brakes. If you can't stop safely
without it when going down a hill, you are in too high a gear (and going too fast.) If you can't stop safely without it on a flat surface, you are going too fast.
3. The Jake is a great addition, especially in mountainous terrain, and I would recommend installing one. But when you consider it a necessity, beware! You are one short-circuit, broken wire or bad connection away from disaster.
My opinion, FWIW, but hopefully, food for thought. Do it your way, of course, but always be safe.
Don
In my opinion, and this from 21 years on the road, a Jake brake has but one use-that's to provide enough engine braking in the proper gear at the proper speed to hold back your vehicle at speed so you don't need to use (or very lightly) the service brakes when descending a long grade. The reason- then if you do get into an emergency stopping situation on the way down the grade, your brakes will be relatively cool and provide the braking power to stop you.
Using the Jake brake around town to slow you down at the signal, using the Jake brake around town just to make noise is not what it is for (course you can do what you want, and there are some drivers that don't consider others). Good Luck, TomC
QuoteIn my opinion, and this from 21 years on the road, a Jake brake has but one use-that's to provide enough engine braking in the proper gear at the proper speed to hold back your vehicle at speed so you don't need to use (or very lightly) the service brakes when descending a long grade. The reason- then if you do get into an emergency stopping situation on the way down the grade, your brakes will be relatively cool and provide the braking power to stop you.
Using the Jake brake around town to slow you down at the signal, using the Jake brake around town just to make noise is not what it is for (course you can do what you want, and there are some drivers that don't consider others). Good Luck, TomC
Wise words, TomC.
Living near the Rockies, almost every truck around here has a Jake, and most drivers use them for around town (illegally, I should add, due to noise bylaws). The reason? To save wear and tear on their brakes, they say. When I owned trucks and had to pay for the wear and tear, I never found a need for the Jake around town. When you learn to watch traffic patterns far ahead, anticipate traffic signals and control you speed accordingly, service brakes are used only sparingly in any event.
Cool breaks on a long downgrade? That's exactly the goal.
I just realized that I may have strayed from the original purpose of this thread; my apologies! Learning about the mechanical issues in buying and installing a Jake is why started reading this thread in the first place.
Don
QuoteAnyone experienced with a Jake on a standard knows what happens when you forget to switch it off before leaving the driver's seat. (Engine stall, if you are wondering)
I have only driven a Jake equipped coach with an automatic. Can someone explain why leaving the switch on would cause the engine to stall on a manual tranny equipped coach. At idle speed, the Jake should be inoperative in my experience.
Richard
Richard,
The Jake on an automatic will not function when the torque converter drops out of lockup. Manuals don't have lockup.
Joe, please excuse a dumb ole redneck hillbilly for not understanding, but my Jakes quit working when the rpm drops down to about 1,000 RPM, (not enough oil pressure to actuate the solenoids). So how could they cause the engine to stall when the idle rpm is in the 500 rpm range. I am assuming the tranny is out of gear and/or the clutch is depressed.
Richard
Quote from: akroyaleagle on November 05, 2007, 06:19:50 AM
Richard,
The Jake on an automatic will not function when the torque converter drops out of lockup. Manuals don't have lockup.
Richard,
I think your jakes quit working, not because of low oil pressure, but because of a low pressure switch in the transmission.
At 1000 rpm, you should be close to full oil pressure on a DD 2 stroke.
On my NTC 400 BCIV cummins, RTOO 14613, there was a switch that would disengage the jake at low rpm. I know this because the switch went out once and the jake would kill the engine at idle unless the clutch was depressed or there was light pressure on the accelerator pedal.. on a cummins that's about 25psi oil pressure.
IHTH
Dallas
Richard, on automatics the Jake only works when the transmission is in lockup. On manuals it works all the time the clutch is engaged. Jakes are more efficient at higher rpms. Yours is probably working at 1000 (If you are in lockup) but is so inefficient it seems it isn't. At 2250 (max no load in my Eagle) the Jake is most efficient and efficiency decreases as the rpm lessens.
Most of us do not drive through towns At 2300 rpm. If you have the correct muffler(s) on the coach the Jake really doesn't make much noise. The laws are to keep unmuffled trucks from waking up the area.
In the Pacific Northwest the log trucks I've seen make a LOT of noise when the Jakes is on. Also many drivers pop them a lot in truck stops. I don't know why except maybe to get noticed.
Modern Jakes have up to six stages of braking. Mine has two. High and Low. I find leaving it on all the time works for me. It doesn't work below about 18mph when the transmission drops out of lockup. Mine works great. Cruise will work as the transmission down shifts in a climb. (It doesn't down shift much with the 8V92). On the descent, remember the cruise is pulling on the fuel lever so the Jake doesn't come on until cruise backs off. On long grades in the west I do turn my cruise off.
We should wire the Jake to the brake lights but I haven't done that. It hasn't gotten high enough on my list of things to do. I think it is a good idea to let the folks following know you are decelerating. The cruise also drops off anytime the brake lights are on. If the brake lights are not functioning, The cruise will try to speed up anytime the brakes are applied. That is not good.
It all sounds great, but my Jakes are not wired thru the tranny. And at idle the engine does not stall when the Jakes are turned on. As I recall, the Jake literature also mentions that the Jakes will not operate at idle rpm due to low oil pressure. My oil pressure at idle is about 5 pounds .
Oh well, enough of this. Just one of the mysteries of life I guess.
Richard
There is a way of hooking up the Jake so the only switches on it would be the throttle and clutch (and obviously the switch on the dash). On this type of setup, on an engine that maintains oil pressure at idle, like a Cummins or like the Caterpillar I have in my truck, the Jake can start activating causing the engine to surge and burp with the Jakes trying to work-usually eventually stalling out the engine. On my truck, the stop solenoid shorted out, so the engine stayed stopped. I removed the solenoid and to turn off the engine would just turn on the Jake, rev it up to only about 1000 and release the throttle and would stall out the engine. If the Jake is properly wired, it should also include a switch in the governor so that when it comes down to an idle, it disengages the Jake, then you won't have the problem of Jake activation when idling. If you have an electronic engine, this feature will be built in. If you have a Detroit 2 stroke with the Jake switch on the governor, it too is built in-course you also won't have enough oil pressure at idle either. Only 4 strokers with mechanical injection and not properly wired might have this problem of Jake operation at idle. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: akroyaleagle on November 03, 2007, 06:38:32 PM
Richard,
I've always set my Jakes with the engine running and at operating temp.
Others,
I do not have DDEC in my Eagle but I have driven many tour buses that had Series 60's and B500s and they interacted just like my Eagle with the 8V92 and 740.
My Jake doesn't activate until the cruise drops out when above the set speed.
The cruise doesn't know the Jake is on, it only knows to come on and drop off according to the selected speed.
The Jake doesn't know anything about cruise. It only knows the cruise has released the throttle lever and it should activate. When the cruise pulls the throttle lever, it causes the Jake to think you have given more fuel and it quits.
If your Cruise is hooked up to the linkage somewhere downstream of the throttle lever, change it so it only pulls the fuel arm and not the whole linkage.
The only time I would turn off my Jakes would be when the road is slick as BK pointed out.
My theory was and is, make everything as automatic as possible. None of us will ever get any younger or have better memory.
Hope this helps
As much as I like being giv'n credit when I deserve it, I also feel I should note when it is giv'n to me by mistake! I believe the credit should be giv'n to BW aka Bus Warrior! But many thanks anyway! As it is something I would have said, but since I've been away from the computer it wasn't me this time as this is my first reply on this post!
Now as to the subject of the Jakes stalling an engine at idle, I have seen it as TomC points out on a CAT and also on a Cumapart both installed by backyard mechs. that only used throttle,clutch, & dash switches and eliminated some of the other stuff! I have pulled into a truck stop and got out to start fueling and had the truck start shaking, choking, & smoking b4 the engine violently shut down because I'd forgoten to turn the dash switch for the Jake off! Ya every one else notices too! LOL! Oops that's what happens when you borrow a truck or help a friend out and drive an unfamiliar truck for the first time! And just for the record, NONE of our coaches have Jakes, but my SETRA's have awesome retarders! (speaking of which mom & dad drove an '05 S417 this weekend and LOVED it, and one of the things dad noticed the most was that the retarder would stand you on your nose! and surprisingly did so to him going down Mount Eagle! LOL! {as a side note I'm just glad they finally drove something besides an antique 102A3 for a change! LOL!) Also on my big trucks I had a terrible habit of leaving the Jakes on in fair to great weather, but NEVER left them on if there was even a chance of rain or worse! I did love being able to set the cruise (at speeds we won't mention) out west and letting the truck do the work! Of course we didn't have no
sissy (oops I mean auto) tranys either! LOL! ;D BK ;D
is there solnoids for 24 volts and 12 volt or are they all the same, found a set off of a truck i assume they are for 12 volt.
It all sounds great, but my Jakes are not wired thru the tranny. And at idle the engine does not stall when the Jakes are turned on. As I recall, the Jake literature also mentions that the Jakes will not operate at idle rpm due to low oil pressure. My oil pressure at idle is about 5 pounds .
Oh well, enough of this. Just one of the mysteries of life I guess.
Richard
Our Jakes are not wired through the trans.
The only time the Jake should work is when the throttle has no fuel applied and sufficient oil pressure. When parked or below your lockup speed the trans is not in lockup and the trans is disengaged from the drive train so no braking action.
My idling oil pressure is 20-25 and my Jake has never come on at idle.
I am getting older but I try to turn off all unneeded switches so probably don't have it on at idle. I do have it on when driving. I guess that comes from pulling such a large trailer with the Eagle and knowing it may help me keep from rear ending somebody when the suns in my eyes and I'm half asleep.
This thread has turned from a request for info to whatever it has become. I think I will move out of this discussion and try to provide the info requested.
There are 12v and 24 volt solenoids. They do not interchange but you can just change them to the correct ones.