hello everyone
i thought about this the other day,when someone asked me where im going to park my bus ,once i buy one. i thought that was kind of a dumb question ...i said in my laneway...where else ??
then i got to thinking...will that bus be able to turn into my laneway...its 40 feet long..mmmmmm
i live out in the country,on a dirt road,there are ditches on both sides of the road.
there are trees on both sides of my laneway
my laneway runs off the road at 90 degrees...like a "T"
so my question is....short of running out there with a tape measure. how"well" do theses buses turn????
how much room do i need??
two cars can pass each other on the road so....
if i pulled up on the far side of the road and cranked the steering wheel to the right....
turning radius ???
dont tell me ill have to get the chain saw out before i but a bus ....
thanks
scottie
Scottie,
I have about a 95% success rate with just looking and being able to tell if the bus can make it.
Unfortunately on my first trip home from the PO's house I had to cut down two Oak trees that were about 25' tall
in a 45 degree turn in my driveway. :P I left it there overnight, so my neighbors could enjoy the sight in the am
For fun you could get a forty foot rope and pull it taught and see if you can make that turn.
Its near the rear wheels that the crunching will occur on those turns, as you do the slideeeeeeeee to the right or left! :o
Cliff
Its surprising how short a turn you can make and equally surprising just how much room it takes to turn around. If you have a two lane road and you are turning onto a private lane I can't imagine how you would not be able to make the turn. Also keep in mind that you can back into a tighter spot than you can drive into.
A couple of years ago we were coming home from San Diego along the west coast. I wanted to stop at Wylies (water ski heaven in Seattle) so I located the store on Streets & Trips and let the GPS guide us there. Its in a warehouse district because, if you want to go there you will go there anyway and most of their business is done online. So we're headed down this fairly narrow street in the warehouse district and the GPS says to turn right. So I do and I'm facing a hill that goes more or less straight up, so steep I can't see what's at the top. Too late to back out now & I've got the micro-truck behind even if I wanted to back up. So we start up the hill, past Wylies which is right at the start of the hill. As I get closer to the top of the hill I can see chain link fence & it turns out that is it a Boeing parking lot, mostly empty cuz the airline industry was in tough times right then. It looked to me like I could make the circle, get turned around and come out to park just outside the gate and sure enough I could but it was CLOSE. Sometimes I don't guess that perfectly. Like the spot we're in right now - the last time I left here I had the micro-truck hooked up and then couldn't make the turn at the end of the lane without backing up. This time when we leave we'll hook up after we leave.
It's a question I asked myself many, many times before buying a bus - I've got plenty of room to park a 40-footer, but bought a short-wheelbase bus simply because of the tight turn into my property. My neighbours must have thought I was nuts in the months before I bought my bus because was I frequently to be seen walking backwards and forwards on my driveway with my arms outstretched, trying to judge what the turning circle of a bus would be. The first time I actually drove it in (having only ever driven it for about 10 minutes at that point) I was VERY stressed - but it went in fine, and I later learnt that if I reversed in it was easier still. The only problem with reversing is remembering that the front corner swings a long way sideways as you turn - it's very easy to clip trees and walls and stuff if you forget to look forwards as well as backwards when you are reversing.
Jeremy
PS. Funny story - By the time I had driven my bus in and parked it on my drive for the first time my neighbour had come out of his house to see what on earth was going on. Having maneouvred the bus into it's final position I turned the engine off and climbed out, then breathed a huge sigh of relief and said to my neighbour "God, I'm glad that's there'. He looked up at this huge vehicle that had just appeared next to his house, looked back at me and said "Well, you're the only one".
Your question is a very good one and one that should be asked by everyone before they buy a bus. Not to mention if local codes will allow it once you physically have it there.
Before I bought my bus, I had a friend bet me that I would not be able to get it up my lane and onto my property. The lane is narrow, about 9 ft wide, with a turn in the middle as it goes up a fairly steep hill. No place to turn around, but at the top I can back it into its space. Not possible with a towed. At the bottom it flanked by a fence on one side and a rock wall on the other. While the road that I turn from is also a country road, if I start on the extreme left side on the dirt, the corner can be negotiated. I do have to back down - about 1/4 mile, but I can back down almost as fast as I can drive in. yes I did have to take out one tree, but I did that while I still had "only" a fifth wheel.
It depends on what coach you buy.
I believe a GMC 4905 turns in about 50'. My Neoplan turns in less than 40', 39 curb to curb and 43' wall to wall.
There used to be a website on coach specs that gave the turning radius and exterior height of all the coaches, but I dont know if it still exists, I quit looking at it after I bought my coach.
Ed
PS I found the site I was referring to. Look around in it.
http://www.coachinfo.com/index.html
Ed
Put an in the classifieds for an old Greyhound driver, he or she will park it in a shoebox if you want.
But will the codes allow you to park it in a shoebox?
I'm planning on bringing mine home this weekend so I can try to get some work done on it. Hopefully the neighbors won't complain too much, I don't think most of them care and a few think it's pretty cool.
If I can get it down the street and manage to turn in the narrow driveway I figure I can just fit it width wise in the drive and along the house with about a couple of feet or so to spare and get it back beyond the front corner of the house. The problem is that my fence and gate is only 6' tall and hiding the bus in there will be like hiding a gorilla in the living room.
If the a$$hole two doors down who elected himself mayor and dictator of the block leaves me alone maybe I'll be able to leave it here and work on it through the winter. Hell, all he'll see is the back end sitting back in the driveway. Local code says that all vehicles that come beyond the rear corner of the house must be licensed, I found that out when he called on me once.
Anyway, I was told that you can get a tighter turn by unloading the tag axle. Is this true and if so how much tighter?
-Dave
Dave,
Yes you can get a slightly better turn with the tags unloaded. But the truth is that it's not that big of difference and the main reason to unload the tags is too do less scuffing of them to make them last longer! You can make tighter turns backing in, and with tags unloaded while backing it will make a bigger difference than forward! Easy solution for the nosy A$$ 2 doors down is to make a plywood extension of your fence and raise it as high as the bus is! Or tell him that one of your "new bus nut friends" is president of the TN (or wherever) chapter of the "Hells Angels" and wants to bring a couple dozen of the boys out for a couple months to stay in the backyard / garage to help ya slam the bus together in time for a big (national) spring rally to be held in the street in front of your house, with the Motor Coach being the center of it all! LOL! FWIW ;D BK ;D
Oh yeah be sure to tell him yer buddy says if he keeps his nose 2 doors down where it belongs, it wont end up 6 feet down looking up!
Hehe, not to jack the thread but I do have a plan.
One of my other much too expensive hobbies is that I have a full 35m movie theater projector setup in my back yard with surround sound and a giant screen. I have a few friends who are cops and fire fighters and I thought I'd throw a free movie night or two for the various police and fire departments and families. I want to do this anyway just to thank them for their work, it's a mostly thankless job. I suspect that the jerk won't make a whole lot of noise when the street is lined with cop cars for our movie nights.
Some of the guys think the bus idea is really cool and they also like my muscle cars so they of course want to come check them out now and then. It made him tone down his behavior in the past. Maybe again???
We now return you to the original thread..........
Ahh yeah I don't wanna hijack the thread any longer either. But I'll make one more short observation. All my cop buddies have been getting rid of their hot rods and obnoxouis 4X4's and buyig Harleys! Tellhim if he keeps bothering you'll start a new chapter of "Biker Cops with out Glaze!" LOL!
;D BK ;D
Lets see if I can explain this? I need 3 lanes to turn a corner with our MC-8. If I am making a right turn and I am in the lane next to the curb, I will need 2 lanes of the road I am turning onto. If I can be in the left lane on the road I am turning from, I only need 1 lane on the road, I am turning onto. Clear?? When turning into our driveway (a right turn), I swing into the left lane of the two lane road in front of our house, then make to turn into our driveway (2 lanes of the road + 1 lane of our driveway=3 lanes).
Anytime you are turning, remember that the drive axle is the pivot point. This is why it is ofter easier to back the bus (as long as there is enough room for the front of the bus to swing). Hope this helps, Jack
Uhh...
You say the street is wide enough for 2 cars to pass. Now the question is are the lanes the 8 foot width or are they the new 12.5 foot lanes?
If they are the 8 foot and than would make the road 16 foot of pavement.
Making a 90 degree turn into and 8 foot or even 12 foot wide side street
off a 16 foot main road is gonna be tricky and almost impossible if you don't have
run-out room for the front end to swing. Even a 12 foot wide main road is going to
give you problems if you don't have a wide unobstructed path to let the front end overhang
off the pavement up to 8 feet. Count the usable shoulder of the roads as part of the usable space. Look out for poles, culverts, fences and anything else that might interfere of cause damage.
Most buses have a 39 to 45 foot turning radius, Some even larger.
Measured usually from the pivot point of the rear axle. (Depends on the length! and wheelbase)
Basically if you can't measure a 50 foot diameter clear path from the centerline of the side road where it intersects the centerline of the main road, You will have trouble making the turn. Even an RTS with it's amazingly tight turning ability might be stretched a little.
I may be off a bit on the "technical" correctness here. But I have good mirrors and dual rear cameras so that I can see what is beside and behind me when I have to go solo making a turn.
A Pair of FRS radios and someone to spot for you is recommended. Make sure that the spotter can give you the right directions as if they were sitting in the drivers seat. Not from their orientation on the ground. Saves a lot of yelling and crunching of surrounding objects. And always remember that when you are backing up you have to go left to go right and vice versa.
If in doubt, Stop, get out and do a walk around to get your bearings.
DrDave, in your post you used two terms somewhat interchangably, turning radius and turning diameter.
I have a thought that while cars and light trucks use the term turning circle, or diameter as their measure, for buses, its only the radius, making the actual circle we could turn around in twice as large. I have a 39 foot turning radius, but it takes me a section 78 feet wide to actually turn the bus around in. (plus room for the bumpers and overhang).
I do agree with your post and I am not trying to flame you, just trying to clarify. My experience also supports Jacks about needing two lanes in at least one of the directions - either the road you are turning from, or the road you are turning into. Otherwise, the rears run over things you would rather not run over.
One other thought; If the road or drive you're turning into is not level and it's necessary to turn in at an angle to prevent dragging, you have to consider that. Sometimes that requires extra space. Just thinking about my own driveway. Luckily, Barn Owl was good enough to bring his bus down and test it out for me so I at least know when I buy one I know I can bring it home. LOL Dennis
A very good question and the answers are many---it all depends upon the type of bus and the experiece level of the driver. My '74 Crown 40' ex-schoolie has a turning circle equal to, or greater than, the Queen Mary or a Air Craft Carrier. A big one. Or maybe an Enterprise class Starship.
I mean when I first got her, I had to routinely turn left 3 times soosss I did not have to turn right. Now am just used to it. Did have my mechanic friend check to sees if there was some way to tighten up the turning radius. He told me no, it was the 16K front axle and fat tires. Good luck. :) :) :)
Forget bus drivers parking buses. Some of the newer ones have rarely engaged reverse. The best limited space drivers are mechanics and shifters. It takes a lot of skill to park rows of buses only a foot apart.
One of my proudest moments was when I parallel parked a 40' tour bus in a single space once, and on the first try! I didn't know I could, I just wasn't smart enough not to try it in front of the people waiting to load. Phewww! I would rather be LUCKY than SMART sometimes. LOL
Dennis
boy there some great answers to my question... thank you!!
i was just heading out the door,tape measure in one hand ,digital camera in the other, to measure the road from ditch to ditch and measure my lane way tree to tree,but its POURING RAIN so another day lol
there is a school bus for sale about 20 minutes away from here....gee i could ask the guy for a test drive and see if that would fit in my laneway,,,thats all i need getting that big yellow thing stuck inbetween two trees and calling the guy up and telling him ill buy it, but you have to come here to pick up the money lol
i do see school buses fly down my road ,i could allways flag one down and see what they think.
with my luck a mci will come up for sale,excellent condition,really close to here,and a great price,and i cant even park it in my own laneway..
scottie
okay im back, the rain slowed down so i ran out ,tooks 4 pictures which i cannot post (too big?) so ill only post one,and i did some measureing
the road from ditch to ditch is 26 feet,
the laneway ditch to ditch is 15 feet
distance between my gate posts is 13 feet....
so if i was able to get the bus into my laneway, it would fit between the gate posts ...right ?? 96 inches or 102 inches wide??
so any comments,do you think i have enough room,or should i go shopping for a "short" bus
scottie
Scottie,
I might be a little worried about the mail box. What you can do now that you have some dimensions is to get a piece of paper and simulate it by hand.
To scale draw out the intersection. With a compass bysect the the 90 deg angles.
Set you compass to 52 foot scaled. move up and down the intersected line with the compass to be on the driveway going onto the road. Draw the arc. then do the same from the road to your driveway. These would represent the pathes you would need to drive. If it cuts the
corner where the two roads meet then you may have to fill in that area. Play with moving
up and down the intersect line to see the different path you could take. If you have outside
room on the arcs to the outside road then you can go with a larger turning radius. Don't
forget this is the inside path add the 8 feet or so to the arc for the outsie of the bus.
I'm sure I didn't explain that very well but I hope you get the idea.
Skip
Kind of difficult to tell distance and perspective from a picture, but it looks to me that you will have no problems. YOu will have start your turn on the far side of the road from the lane as the rears will follow a path about 8 or 9 feet inside the arc the front tires take. Mine is tighter than what this looks like, and is not an issue.
Looks like something might make that turn, probably scrape a little onthe mailbox and do a little cross-country at the edges of the roadway and driveway.
An schoolie probably could make the turn, But an MCI and a lot of the highway coaches would need some extra space. They just don't turn quite as tight as buses like Flx 870's and RTS buses.
Oh.. and my use of the terms turning radius or variances.. Brain Fart.. Sorry about that.... :D
The best part of driving a great handling bus is knowing exactly where the edges are at all times.
We and I say that loosley and while trying not to say exactly where. Used to run 40 foot RTS buses through ticket booth lanes with 4 inches of tire clearance at 50 mph. Usually scared the fudge out of the booth attendants after hours. It was the only fun the late night shift had while ferrying the buses back to the garage area.
If in doubt get out and look where your tracks are. Big parking lots are good places to do actual turning tests also.
I am going to say.....yes, any highway coach save a maybe a 45 footer will make that turn...not much wiggle room though
schoolies are not a good comparison
I think backing in would pose more of an issue due to front end swing, would have to have the bus just in the right spot starting off to allow the @$# to go in and the front not to walk into the ditch
Well I'll bet $ that if someone will pay me to take a few terrible days off work, & for fuel, meals, expenses, etc. I could take my 45'er up there and back it in on the first try, and make it look like childs play! Any taker$?
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on October 06, 2007, 04:48:45 PM
Well I'll bet $ that if someone will pay me to take a few terrible days off work, & for fuel, meals, expenses, etc. I could take my 45'er up there and back it in on the first try, and make it look like childs play! Any taker$?
;D BK ;D
I could probably do it also. It takes patience and experience. Knowing where your edges are always helps too. No I am not game for a challenge. I have done more difficult turns. May not have been pretty but they can be done.
Sound like it time for a bus rodeo to me?...
We would need a lot of cones and really big parking lot. Ever done a slalom in reverse for 1,000 feet
through cones set 100 feet apart? I have and fast too.. Or did the instructor say I went too fast?
Or backing through a 180 degree turn without touching any cones with the front or back wheels?
The mouse is tough on their bus drivers...
man thats an Idea for Arcadia....Conversion Rodeo
Scottie,
i'm throwing out an opinion based on my limited experience as a since my bus was the first one i drove too.
- Go ahead and move the mailbox by choice. no need to have an extra uneeded worry
- fill the ditches at the corners with large rocks, just in case you have a little trouble at night. I learned that one on a fun filled new years eve. :D
look up, branches can do damage. I took out the tree at the end of my driveway after it claimed a window awning. if you trim branches, trim them at the base, ---another scar from a fellow busnuts driveway.
-remember that you are sitting in front of the front wheels, and may have to hang out over a ditch and let the wheels but it does make it easy to get the bumper close.
just my youghtas
Quote from: tekebird on October 06, 2007, 06:58:23 PM
man thats an Idea for Arcadia....Conversion Rodeo
Hmmm, I check into this. One other thing to remember when turning the bus is that you will be sitting in front of the front wheels. You can actually be sitting "off the road" while your front wheels are still on the road when turning. Jack
Oops, Looks like Newbee & I posted same message at the same time
hi everyone
wow didnt expect this much responce.im not too sure i would like the idea of sitting over the top of the ditch ,looking down (and not falling in ) while the front wheels are still on the laneway,that must be a wierd feeling!!
i guess i wasnt clear re the mail box (which i just cemmented in this summer) i would be comeing in from the other direction....so when im driveing home i would be makeing a right hand turn into the drineway and the mail bow would be on my left.
gee busted knuckle thats real tempting..just how much money are we talking here ;D lol lol back it in on the first try ...mmm do i get to keep your 45 footer if you dont make it ;D ..just kidding..
a friend of mine bought me a set of laneway marker,because they had a hard time backing down my laneway at night in a s.u.v. (i will not mention what sex they were )
scottie
Scottie, my bet is that no way are you going to come in from the right and turn into that lane. I seriously doubt if you can even back in, but no way are you going to pull in.
Richard
Quote from: scottie on October 07, 2007, 06:24:32 AM
gee busted knuckle thats real tempting..just how much money are we talking here ;D lol lol back it in on the first try ...mmm do i get to keep your 45 footer if you dont make it ;D ..just kidding..
scottie
Don't ever bet with a pool shark, or in this case, a bus shark. I've watched Bryce back up and believe me... he CAN do it.
Quote from: bubbaqgal on October 07, 2007, 06:37:17 AM
Quote from: scottie on October 07, 2007, 06:24:32 AM
gee busted knuckle thats real tempting..just how much money are we talking here ;D lol lol back it in on the first try ...mmm do i get to keep your 45 footer if you dont make it ;D ..just kidding..
scottie
Don't ever bet with a pool shark, or in this case, a bus shark. I've watched Bryce back up and believe me... he CAN do it.
A lot of difference between pulling in and backing in. That mailbox would definitely, in my opinion, prevent pulling in from the right.
Richard
Wow, could I ever make some money betting with you. LOL
Quote from: JackConrad on October 07, 2007, 05:52:08 AM
Quote from: tekebird on October 06, 2007, 06:58:23 PM
man thats an Idea for Arcadia....Conversion Rodeo
Hmmm, I check into this. One other thing to remember when turning the bus is that you will be sitting in front of the front wheels. You can actually be sitting "off the road" while your front wheels are still on the road when turning. Jack
Oops, Looks like Newbee & I posted same message at the same time
They say Great Minds think alike. :P ;D :D
i didnt question that when i got my first bus but now i have the 2nd bus,i have to ? it now
well,i think the next time i see one of the long school buses going down my road, i will flag him over and ask him if he thinks he could turn into my driveway .maybe ill leave my car on the road (lol ) just in case ;)
ill keep everyone posted on this,and report back just how easy /hard it was for the school bus driver.
hopefully i will not be posting a picture of a big yellow bus sitting in the ditch blocking my driveway lol
cheers
scottie
Scottie,
Now that I can see the 3rd angle, NO problem.
Cliff
yep I say no problem for or aft.
I would stone the radius of the lane a bit more just to give you some wiggle room
Yep. With the new photo, looks like plenty of room if you swing wide into the left lane.
Richard
ALSO Scottie that a SKOOLIE/TWINKIE is nothing like a real coach, and can go many places you'd better never think of trying to take a coach! FWIW JMHO ! ;D BK ;D
hi busted knuckle
i just wanted to get a rough idea about getting in the laneway,so i thought a school bus would be a good start.
gee i would hate to finnally get a m.c.i. bring it home and have to park it on the road....the township would love that and so would the guy driveing the snow plow ::)
scottie
Quote from: scottie on October 07, 2007, 06:31:26 PM
hi busted knuckle
i just wanted to get a rough idea about getting in the laneway,so i thought a school bus would be a good start.
gee i would hate to finnally get a m.c.i. bring it home and have to park it on the road....the township would love that and so would the guy driveing the snow plow ::)
scottie
Not a problem if he's like the guy that drives the snow plow down here (keep in mind we only have 1 for KY, TN & MS LOL that they share), after he hit it hard enough the first time it'd be spring B4 the tow truck would attemp to remove it from the trees! LOL!
;D BK ;D
What's it worth to you if I park this in your driveway for you to take a picture of it sitting there MINUS the load of course???
hey Larryh
that cant be for real??? someone drove that ....thats like a train on wheels
i like to know whats in the black box lol :-\
scottie
Quote from: scottie on October 08, 2007, 06:31:14 AM
hey Larryh
that cant be for real??? someone drove that ....thats like a train on wheels
i like to know whats in the black box lol :-\
scottie
I used to see these units occasionally on the west coast. Never saw one here in the east. I suspect that it is a big transformer for the utility company. At least that is my guess.
Richard
And it takes two drivers. One in front and one in the rear.
Quote from: scottie on October 08, 2007, 06:31:14 AM
hey Larryh
that cant be for real??? someone drove that ....thats like a train on wheels
i like to know whats in the black box lol :-\
scottie
I use to move loads like that with a similar set up. If you look closely, some of those 'jeep' axles aren't dual wheels, they are actually triples, two standard duals on the outside and a third wheel inside the frame.
We primarily hauled parts for nuclear powerplants with those units, but also hauled huge magnets for Morton Thiokol.
Some of our loads were in the 750,000 to 1 million pound range. My max load ever was 725,000 pounds. It took 3 drivers, 2 in the front, one in the rear. We could travel between the hours of 02:00 and 06:00. I had to sign a paper that said I wouldn't divulge the contents or the destination of the load.
We had 2 pilot cars and 8 state police cars as escort. Other police cars closed off entrance ramps to the freeways we were on for 15 minutes before we passed until 30 minutes after we passed.
Two trucks were allowed to travel per night from the loading point and each truck had to use a different route to the destination.
Just for information, a company I was leased to also sent us to Alaska on some runs to Prudhoe bay. The highway is called the Dalton highway and also known as the 'Haul' road. Our loads at that time were only in the 250,000 pound range.
That was back when trucking was still fun. The rates were also a joy to receive. I paid for my truck and almost half of my trailer with the proceeds of just one of the Prudhoe Bay loads.
Dallas
there is an outfit in the souther tier of Ny state that specializes in this type of rig.
each axle can be steered individually hydraulically. they were a co host of the last Bus Bash in NY and had a demonstration I beleive
Scottie, Yes I drove the rig posted both rear tractor's ie Mules are controlled by me in front tractor.
When we get to close quarters two more operators get on unit by large Hyd tank towards front and rear ofunit we can actually make a 90 degree turn. and crab the unit to about 140 ft widewidth varies on main unit from 23 to 27 feet on the load bearing carrying surface. We usually have 4 escort vehicles plus two tire support vehicles to service the 246 tires as set up here. a variable amount of police vehicles cost run close to 2500 dollars per mile to the co.
This particular load had CIA guards 24 hour 1400 mile trip took a little over 9 travel days. Yes it pays well.
LarryH
Quote from: larryh on October 08, 2007, 05:40:44 AM
What's it worth to you if I park this in your driveway for you to take a picture of it sitting there MINUS the load of course???
I saw a rig identical to that one coming thru UC last week! And as Larry said it had 4 escorts and many "special support vehicles" around it! I figured it was headed to the GoodYear plant here but I kept going South towards Memphis. I noticed that they'd done away with the drivers that rode down in the little jeeps looking like they were driving go-carts. Even though I really tought that it was cool too!
;D BK ;D