I just got a phone call from a busnut in serious trouble. He is stranded in Clinton Tn. Jim Jenkins is driving a PD4108 and was moving from Pa to Fla. His muffler has caused a nasty fire in the rear of the bus. What should he do???
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
how bad is the damage? a friend of mine works for fleetpride truck parts in Chattanooga and may be able to tell me who in that area would be a good shop to help him out.
Steve
compedgemarine@alltel.net
Look like he is close to Knoxville and Oak Ridge. Any busnuts in the area? How bad is the damage Electrical? Engine? Structural?
Jack,
From what I learned in a rather brief conversation the damage is primarily electrical, the 4ought battery cables. The plywood floor is seriously burned and the rear window was broken while extinguishing the fire. It probably should be moved on a flatbed.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
Sorry to hear about the trouble. This makes the third buffalo that I know of on this board that has had a fire due to a faulty muffler. I think all GM owners need to do a through check of their exhaust systems.
Barn Owl,
I had, before this, observed that 2 other buffalo owners had fires due to muffler failures. So at BK's rally I talked to Dallas about how to prevent this. Yes it is a serious problem we really need to try to prevent.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
Jerry,
That is approximately where my S&S puked on me a couple of days ago, I know the area well!!! If they need any hands on work done to get them repaired enough to continue email me and I can have the S&S suited back up with tools to come and help, welding etc. It is about 4 hours from me. If they are interested in this email me their cell phone number and I will call and talk to them also before leaving.
I do not know of the exhaust system on the Buffalo buses but a heat shield over the entire muffler is something to think about to me or wrapping it in the heat blankets now being used on mufflers and will be on mine. Only a suggestion before even seeing what you have, but what do I know.
Gary
a lot :)
Hey guys,
I just got done talking to Jerry and I am going to look into building a "pie pan" shaped piece, as Jerry called it, to put over the top.
I haven't been under my bus yet to see what I am up against, but I would think it should be doable.
From the drawing Jerry faxed me, I was wondering if it might be easiest to make the "pie pan" and slot it from the edge to the center so a person would not have to drop the muffler down far enough to clear the bolt? And then have yet another piece to put over the slot so as to not defeat the purpose.
But like I said, I haven't looked up in there to see what I am up against yet. I just thought I would get some ideas flowing from others who know more about this than me. But Jerry sounds like hes got a pretty good idea going there. I think 19 ga. stainless would do the trick. I'm working late so it will give me a little something else to think about.
I hope Jim gets things worked out! My heart goes out to him. I hear he has had a couple problems lately. Wish I could be of more help.
Chaz
At least 3 owners of GM highway coaches made after 1967 have recently had fires caused by muffler failure. All these buses use the same exhaust system, at least did when delivered with an 8v71. The muffler is a steel cylinder forward of the engine but behind the rear axle under the plywood floor in the center of the bus. Inspecting the top of the muffler is very difficult and if holes develop apparently hot jets of exhaust are directed to the plywood above resulting in fires. I'm proposing a heat shield to be placed above the muffler and below the floor. What I'm thinking of is sort of an inverted pie pan made of stainless steel mounted above the muffler support cross piece but still below the floor. The idea is that any jet of exhaust from a hole in the muffler would hit the stainless,have it's heat spread over a large area, and not start a fire by hitting the plywood. Does anyone have a better idea?
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
Quote from: Jerry Liebler on September 12, 2007, 03:12:58 PM
I just got a phone call from a busnut in serious trouble. He is stranded in Clinton Tn. Jim Jenkins is driving a PD4108 and was moving from Pa to Fla. His muffler has caused a nasty fire in the rear of the bus. What should he do???
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
Ok, I don't get it... You guys are slipping! His question was, "His muffler has caused a nasty fire in the rear of the bus. What should he do???" And not one of you gave the correct answer.
The first answer should have been an unequivical, "Put the fire out!" ::)
Probably a good thing I wasn't online when the question was first posted. I'm sure you didn't want to hear smart-assed answers at that time. :D
Jerry,
that is little more than the principle used by auto makers when catalytic converters first came out. in the first cars no one anticipated the extra heat caused by the converter and there where some problems with the floor getting so hot that it would cause a fire if the converter was too close to the floor. thats when the heat shields came out. any type of steel or stainless shield would absorb the heat and as air moves past it would transfer the heat out keeping the floor cool. it would really only need maybe a 1/2 inch of clearence to the muffler and a 1 inch to the floor to dissipate the heat. my truck doesnt even have that much clearance but if you have it on the GMC the more the better.
steve
and Gumpy
years ago as a service writer people would call with a problem with their car and I would try to figure out what type of problem it was so I could schedule it. well with the less informed I would start with "does it start?" then "does it stop?" etc. well if they still couldnt answer anything my final question was " is it currently on fire?". imagine my surprise when one gentleman answered quite matter of factly "no they got that out would you like to speak to the fireman?"
so I guess no that was not such a smart a$$ answer.
steven
Jerry,
I'm working on it.
I'll probably be there friday.
Gotta get Ron and Mike out the door first. If the guys still willing, we'll see what the damage really is and go from there. Most likely it's drivable after some minimal repairs.
I'll call you tomorrow.
Dallas
Cliff recently had an identical muffler related fire in his GM coach. They patched it up and he drove it back to Florida from North Carolina. He can probably shed some BTDT light on the subject.
A good bit of the wiring could be safetied out of the way. Don't need much other than to get the muffler repaired or replaced.
Cliffs muffler came apart on the top end near the bedroom floor.
Sorry to hear of a busnut with issues!
JR
Jerry,
what ever happened to the poor guy that had the bus fire and how is he doing and also does he need any help?? I lost track of him in the rest of the post here.
Gary
Jerry,
I would be happy to share any thoughts on what I did to get going with my own experience with the
Muffler setup and failure. http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=1218.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=1218.0)
From your description of Jim's fire with the window breaking, it sounds like he had a hell of a problem.
Mine ended up burning a hole about 1' round, but mostly smoldered and put out a lot of smoke. I did not have any major flames.
The idea of the heat shield is what I did to get home from NC. Anyone working in this area will quickly find out what a pain it is. You will be laying on the floor, arms fully extended through a 1' X 1' hole.
Even if I had a good exhaust, I would at a minimum put a heat shield over it, but it is NO guarantee to protect you from the hot 700+ degree gases of the exhaust. Just a "feel better" measure.
If you have a GMC that has the exhaust tucked up under the floor, you need to take serious consideration into the muffler setup that is on the last page of the link above. The key is getting them out from up under the floor. Around 600.00 in parts and no more worries of a fire from that muffler. Cheap really.
The only drawback to what I did is the mufflers are more vulnerable to damage than when they were tucked up neatly under the chassis. I have been about 8000 miles with my new ones, through many off roads in state parks and all over. So far, so good.
By the way, it took me three times the time to fix the floor that was burnt, than to completely remove and replace my single exhaust into duels. Make your choices, live with your results!
Cliff
Just got in today but spent the night in a park in Clinton. If i knew any thing i would have stayed and tryed to help. Just no way to get email in the park that i was in. Know about "wiring fires".
Uncle ned
be sure and let us know how thing come out. gary if you start let me know.
in these failures didn't anyone notice the large increase in engine noise? I had one of my 4104 mufflers fail on the way to go look at the MC-8 that I bought. It was obviously louder after the comprimise of the muffler. and that was from only 3 cyl.
Jerry,
Any updates on Jim and his situation?
Cliff
As Jerry and Cliff have noted, it is by far too many of these muffler failures that have placed our BusNuts and their families in jeopardy.
Why don't you GM guys have a gathering of the minds at one of the upcoming rallies and pool your information in the form of a flier, or something like that, which can be disseminated to other GM owners of the prospect of the dangers of not inspecting these mufflers on an ongoing basis? Perhaps Mak and others could publish warnings.
So far, it's been fires. But how about the possibility of CO (Carbon Monoxide) poisoning to anyone in the rear of the bus. That's a topic we haven't touched on here....and it's very difficult to detect...unless the Medics are aware of the possibility. Imagine your Grandchildren playing with Grandma on the bed, or Mama taking a nap with the pet while you're tooling down the road...oblivious to what might be happening back there?
Time to take this thread a step farther, in my humble opinion........
NCbob
Here here. I think a Monoxide detector would be a very cheap form of life insurance along with a standard smoke detector. One set at each end would be better still. 8)
I agree with NCBob, All RVs should have smoke and carbon monoxide detectors as well as a propane detector if propane is on board.
If installing detectors, remember that smoke and carbon monoxide detectors should be near the ceiling. CO has a vapor density that is lighter than air. Propane detectors should be near the floor as propane's vapor density is heavier than air. CO detectors can also save you from a neighbors generator exhaust fumes as well given wind direction, open windows, etc. Jack
Here is an update on this bus. This was copied from the GM busnuts Yahoo BB Jack
Mike Hill,
burned out 4108
Mike if you see this would you be interested in purchasing my 4108?
It has a rebuilt 8v71, out of frame by Ozark diesel, less than 40,000 miles on it. A recored radiator, rebuilt starter, air compressor, four almost new Bandags on drive, less than 3,000 mi. two new steer tires, less than 600 mi. two new 8d batteries, an air throttlejust installed. A good used bath room, smoke damage only, a good small frig. an 18" dish washer, 4 burner gas range w/oven, single bowl stainless s sink.
She is located in Clinton, TN on 25w south. It caught on fire entering TN on I 75 headed south going up jelico hill. Muffler had a hole and caught the rear floor on fire. Firemen broke out the rear window, large one, and both pains of the sliding windows rear drivers side. Ceiling in bed room burnt off, extensive smoke damage throughout the bus. Thanks for your consideration. Jim 4108