AP REPORTS
15 Hurt in Runaway RV Crash in Wash.
Jul 18 01:17 PM US/Eastern
PORT ANGELES, Wash. (AP) - A recreational vehicle driver lost control on a mountain road and slammed into three other vehicles before plowing through a railing and into a 20-foot gully. Fifteen people were injured, and driver was in critical condition, authorities said Wednesday.
The RV was carrying a family from Missouri. It was on a long downhill grade from Hurricane Ridge in Olympic National Park on Tuesday afternoon when it crashed.
"Preliminary investigations show that the motor home probably lost its brakes while driving north on Mount Angeles Road," Port Angeles spokeswoman Teresa Pierce said.
The RV driver, Lonnie Owens, 51, of Fairgrove, Mo., was listed in critical condition Wednesday morning at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. Three others were in stable condition at Olympic Medical Center in Port Angeles, and the other 11 people were treated for minor injuries and released.
Owens' wife, their four children and a family friend were also in the RV. Occupants of the other vehicles included tourists from France, Florida and Bellevue.
A terrible thing to happen.
It all comes back to leaning about your vehicle and what it is capable of doing.
I've seen Class C motor homes going down the road with loaded trailers that had the back of the MH down so far there was no way they could negotiate a steep driveway without dragging.
I also remember being passed by motorhomes when going down steep hills and having the drivers flip me the bird because I was going so slow. A few I've seen in the escape ramps, buried to the axles with smoke curling up from the wheels!
It's a lesson we should all learn... the behemoth is heavy and it's not going to stop as fast as your family SUV, even if it does have the Corian counters and mirrored ceilings and that monster Cat engine.
Back when I drove a wrecker for a friend in Duluth, Minnesota, I was called out to the big hill on I-35 where a 40' pusher motorhome pulling a race car trailer had gone over an embankment. All in the M/H were killed, but we didn't know how many for sure until I dragged the biggest pieces up the hill. 2 had been ejected and the run over and crushed by the chassis as it came apart. Neither one was more than 10 years old.
All you guys out there, PLEASE! Learn about your brakes. Keep them in adjustment, don't try to make them do things they can't physically do, and be careful out there... not just your life, but the lives of your family, passengers and bystanders are riding on the decisions you make. Don't make the wrong ones!
Dallas
Sad fact is the typical RV owner has no idea about braking on a grade. Throw in air brakes and a heavy trailer and the problem compounds.
I would really like to see the industry--not the government--encourage a special driver training certificate and test for new owners. Maybe tie it into a break on your insurance or something. I know it is really the responsibility of the owner, but it really is an education issue for the industry.
What do you all think?
In Canada an air endorsement is mandatory for anyone driving a vehicle with air brakes. I doubt many RV salesmen tell potential customers that they have to take the air brake coarse before they can drive their new toy.
I'd love to take a course on air brakes, handling, etc for a bus. The more I know about driving my vehicle, the more comfortable / less stressed I am. When I'm less stressed, I can concentrate on driving and other drivers. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any such courses locally. I am going to take a driver's offer, at a somewhat local charter company, to go out with me and help me 'master' the Spicer transmission. He seemed like he knows what he's talking about, so I'll see if he has time to teach me anything else. Like a couple others have mentioned, most new RV / bus owners don't know what these vehicles are capable of and what they are not capable of. Everybody benefits from more knowledgeable drivers.
David
Yes, it was probably something as simple (and stupid) as not gearing down for the descent and riding the brakes down. I drive the mountains and hills here in Colorado a lot, and am always amazed at how many folks in cars, vans, and SUVs simply mash the brakes the whole way down.
*sniff-sniff* "What's that smell, honey?" *sniff-sniff* "I don't smell anything."
But light vehicles can be a lot more forgiving of these sins, esp. with the 4-wheel disc brakes now common. Newbies driving a big RV the way they drive a car is destiny for disaster.
Sad,
Brian B.
p.s. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the industry to press for anything that might prevent one single sale. "Sure it's 40,000 pounds, sir, but drives just like your car!"
Unfortunately, our big vechicles here in the states still to this day use drum brakes. I am seeing some of the higher end buses and motorhomes with air discs. But with our older buses, we have drum brakes. Granted there are at least 10 different linings we can get for whatever service is required. I'm sure that my transit has a different lining then a highway bus.
Living out west, we have no choice but to have to go over some big mountains to go anywhere. Thee first thing I had installed in my bus was a Jake Brake. If you never plan to come west of interstate 25 or never go to Canada or Alaska, then you don't need a Jake Brake. But in the western 11 states, Canada and Alaska, there are some big continuous down hills that will heat up brakes very quickly. I just went to Bakersfield this weekend to have Don Fairchild fine tune the engine, and coming down the north bound I-5 which is 5 miles of 6% grade, I only had to switch back and forth from high to low on the Jake to control my speed-didn't touch the brakes once! That's both control and safety.
I'm quite sure that if that motorhomer had some kind of retarder, he'd still be driving his motorhome. Good Luck, TomC
The sad thing is we probably only here of less than one percent of RV accidents and there cause. It sure makes me glad that we have had only one fellow busnut involved in one, and it was horrible. That tells me that those of us who own these big coaches are more cautious and knowledgeable when it comes to driving these big beasts. You might be a safe driver, but the other fellow could cause a catastrophe with loss of life.
Please be careful out there.
Happy Trails,
Paul
Dreamscape
When I was a kid (17/18) I crashed my car going up (not down) Sutton Bank, which is famous for being the steepest major road in Britian, having a 1-in-4 gradiant in places. To this day I remember the trip back down the hill in the recovery truck which had my car on the back - the way the truck driver safely negotiated his way down the gradiant really impressed me at the time, and has probably made me a better driver ever since.
Whilst better driver training is always to be welcomed, as someone from a very much over-legislated country I would say 'be careful what you wish for' - in the UK you now have to pass an extra driving test to be allowed to tow any kind of trailer, and in Germany you have to attend a course and pass an examination before you're allowed to go fishing! In most of Europe (not the UK fortunately) the whole concept of 'bus conversions' is impossible because of the extremely strict laws on vehicle modifications.
Jeremy
Quote from: Jeremy
in Germany you have to attend a course and pass an examination before you're allowed to go fishing!
Jeremy
They musta heard my horribly tacky polish fishing joke and believed it was true! LOL!
;D BK ;D
Yes ... Stan is right in Canada you need an air indorsement ... but the RV industry did an end-run around this by installing hyd over air brake system... and the goverment let them do it ... how supid is that.
Ron
Ron: I haven't heard that Alberta is overlooking the air brake endorsement. Here is the definition in the Alberta Safety Act for air brakes and the regulations say you have to have an air endorsement if you drive a vehicle with air brakes. For a lot of years they exempted RVs in Alberta, but they are included now.
(b) "air brake" means a vehicle braking system that initiates air pressure at an engine‑driven compressor and transmits the pressure through a series of hoses, reservoirs and control valves to the vehicle foundation brakes;
I personally would like to receive training on shifting, adjusting brakes and all the important issues a good heavy duty vehicle driver should be versed in knowing even if a flat is experienced and controlling our vehicles on our highways.
By the time I am ready for any of this I will probably have to have someone come over here and show me how to start this thing!!! Good Grief.
If you know of any training courses available to us "Newbies" please let us know here in this thread. I live in Greenville SC, I sure wish Rick Long from CA. was here, but am sure there is qualified teachers here I would welcome to learn from.
We cannot just jump in a 18 ton vehicle and think we can know it all. Makes my butt pucker just thinking about it.
Let us know on available training for us, perhaps after a few posts on this on the main page can be allowed before being moved to the help section so that all of us busnuts will know this information may be available if needed. List by States & Cities if possible.
Thanks,
Gary
I was suprised when I didn't have to get training/liscense or anything. So i got them to at least give me the book. Made it a lot less overwhelming.
The local DMV should have the CDL test booklet, get that & read it. It is a great start to learning. Then there are the local truck driving schools. . . .
Just a thought
Most states should have the CDL books on line.
For Montana http://www.doj.mt.gov/driving/forms.asp#driverlicensing (http://www.doj.mt.gov/driving/forms.asp#driverlicensing)
If your state does have it online it would be interesting to have the url posted
so we can compare.....
Skip
These kind of accidents will be more frequent as more Baby boomers age and hop into their newly purchased RV's and try to drive it like an SUV. This will prompt more and more regulations by the politicians who think they know how to protect us from ourselves.
The best way to learn about anything is information, ie., the internet. There have been many threads on this board and I've seen threads at Woodalls and Escappees as to how people should safely drive mountain grades. That is where I learned. There is just no excuse anymore for not knowing.
The standard advice: go down the hill the same speed and gear you went up. How many times have we all read this?
David
anyone that can go to the Escapade annual Escapee rally in Goshen, IN this year, can take the safe driving course. it costs extra, but teaches you how to drive an RV. i know we don't have RV's, but its better than not having training. i think it's a one day course.
i got a copy of the CDL requirements book for Ohio. No, i didn't go pass a test, but that was for other reasons. the book was helpful if for no other reason than it listed all the things to check before you release the brakes and take off on your trip.
i don't have a Jake, so i keep it in first or second and hit the brake hard periodically to keep the speed down. i aslo try to avoid steep grades until i can afford a Jake.
the insurance policy break as incentive is a good idea. i'd support that. pass a test, written and driving, to get a 20% break on the fee. Problem is the insurance industry would probably raise the rates 10% for all of us first.
Quote from: Gary LaBombard on July 19, 2007, 07:23:43 PM
I live in Greenville SC, I sure wish Rick Long from CA. was here, but am sure there is qualified teachers here I would welcome to learn from.
Gary -What would it be worth to you for me to fly back there from CA for a couple of day's training??
;)
The "go down in the same gear as up" was valid when everyone had small engines. With 600 HP engines in motorhomes that climb 6% grades in high gear it no longer fits every case. It is scary that almost every MVD will allow people (many over 65) to drive a large motorhome with no previous experience, other than the family car.
One other little tidbit that has bitten me.
Some of the newer smart automatic trannies will upshift if the RPM reaches a certain point. EVEN if you have selected
for it to be in that lower gear. BTDT half way down the pass. It's a scary feeling because all of a sudden it feels
like you are free wheeling. Pull over Stop and walk around the bus till your heart rate is normal! That reminds me
I need to get a tach
FWIW
Skip
I love buses (don't we all). When I puchased my first antique coach (fancy name for a 1958 old look) I was lucky enough to have a very good friend come out with me for a few early Sunday mornings, so that I could learn how to drive a 40-transit bus the proper way. You never know everything you think you do, but it would have been pretty stupid of me to think that I could jump into the driver's seat of my first bus and drive it like someone who has been doing it for a living for 25 years.
maria n skip
I had the auomatic upshift happen when my jakes failed, up shifted due to rpm, and then I was going way too fast down the siskyou mountains. Created a lot of adrenaline!! The tranny does that to "save" the engine from over revving. saved the engine, sacrafice the bus and driver! I made it ok, but it sure makes you think twice about your speed.