My bus (GM PD4106) currently has 12R 22.5 tires on it . Are these the common tire size that truckers use. If not, what tire size should I go to.
Thanks
Fred Mc.
not a truck common size.
trucks commonly run 24.5's
.
Tekebird,
No offense, as I am out of my league to speak on trucks, However here it goes. My opinion was that most trucks today run the 24.5's but in looking at truck 4 sale mag's at the fuel stops, I see more and more late models with 22.5's. I am assuming for less weight, more fuel mileage ? ?
If you ask why I am looking at ad's of trucks for sale, you have just joined my wife's line of questioning.
Have a great day,
Gary
Some trucks run 22.5's, some 24.5's. The most tire for your money is an 11r22.5 16 ply. They will be a couple of hundred dollars less than a 12r22.5 and work fine on a bus. There is less than an inch difference in the height of the tires.
Weigh your bus to determine the actual load carried by the tires. Then buy a tire that will do the job.
You need to do more than a simple axle weight as one side may have more stuff & result in tire problems if the tire rating is marginal for the axle.
I'll defer to NJT as he is one of the truck experts on the board
From being in the trucking industry for over 30 years, I can tell you that the 11R-24.5 was the industry leader for many years. Now that the trailers are tallers, they needed a smaller tire. The standard of the industry tire now is the 295/75R-22.5 or 275/80R-22.5 (Michelins size). No real advancements have been made on the 12R-22.5. But the tire now is the 315/80R-22.5 (metric version of the 12R). Michelin just came out with a 315 that will take up to a 20,000lb load on the steers approved at 65mph (was 55mph before). I changed to the 11R-24.5 since it is the biggest tire in diameter and I have a transit that is low to start with. Changing from the 12R to the 11R-22.5 would be a good change, except you'll loose about 16 revs per mile (making the bus a bit slower at top speed). Tire speed is as follows- 11R-22.5=502rpm; 12R-22.5=486rpm; 315/80R-22.5=489rpm; 11R-24.5=478rpm. Technically, the 12R and 315/80 are supposed to be on a 8.25" or 9.00" rim-of which you probably have a 9.00" wide rim. The 11R's can run on either a 7.50" or 8.25" wide rim. My guess is that a 9.00" rim could facilitate a 11R tire, but check with your tire man. So changing from the 12R to 11R-22.5 will make your 80mph top speed now a 77.5mph bus. Still a better choice than the 12R. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: Fred Mc on July 02, 2007, 11:30:28 PM
My bus (GM PD4106) currently has 12R 22.5 tires on it . Are these the common tire size that truckers use. If not, what tire size should I go to.
Fred -The magic number you should be interested in is 495. That's the number of
revs per mile that GM designed the 4106's powertrain around. Going to a tire that matches that rpm, regardless of rim size (22.5 or 24.5), will give you OEM performance out of your coach. Buried in the specifications for all commercial tires, you'll find the revs/mile spec for each size/type, which is a factor you should be considering.
Going to a tire that turns
more than 495 revs/mile will lower your top speed and increase your fuel consumption.
Going to a tire that turns
less than 495 revs/mile will have the opposite effect.
IF you have a V-730 instead of the OEM 4-spd, there is a Bridgestone 11R24.5 tire out there that turns 470 rev/mile. Installing this tire will bring the overall performance almost back to OEM, with the exception of fuel mileage.
Then there's the issues of load range and speed ratings. You don't want to purchase tires that do not have sufficient load range to support the weight of your coach fully equipped, nor do you want to purchase tires that are speed rated at only 50 or 55 mph (transit tires, commonly).
I will agree with Gary, however. It does seem to be that more and more trucks are running 22.5s. Besides being a lighter tire, therefore increasing the load they can carry, I think they're also switching due to the newer engine's torque characteristics, allowing them to run overdrive transmissions. TomC has noted some of this in his post above.
Also note that the manufacturers are switching over to metric sizing (315/80R22.5 for example), something else to scratch your head over.
Just remember that magic number of 495 as you work thru this.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
I just installed four Toyo M122 11:00R 22.5 14 ply tires on the rear of my 4104.
The dealer said it is his best selling truck tire.
I've had two of these on the front for just over a year and am very pleased with them.
Toyos are very popular around me Mid Atlantic, very good tire value
the 12r22.5s are still made in Japan and can be hard to find. When I bought my last pair of tires they were backorderd with an expected delivery time of 6 months.
Sidenote: The Toyos made in japan give off some no so pleasant oders when warm.
Fred,
I'd like to reinforce a couple of points already made, and add a few notes.
First off, yes, 12R22.5 is a very common size on trucks. Not so much for the trailers, but definitely on class 8 tractors. 11R24.5 is arguably a more common size, especially if you count trailer tires (bearing in mind that the truck tire market is divided into drive tires, steer tires, and trailer tires, and you'll only want steer, drive, or "all-position" tires).
If your concern about "common size" has to do with cost, I would venture a guess that the 12R22.5 tires will not cost you enough more, over the life of the coach, to justify changing wheels. Changing wheels might lead to other issues as well, such as having to recalibrate speedo, cruise control, etc..
If your concern about "common size" has to do with availability in case you need one someplace on the road, you are likely to have slightly more choice in the 24.5, but not enough to matter. Most tire dealers stock at least one 12R22.5 (that is, if they are big enough to stock 24.5 as well). And we've had no problems finding used tires in that size, either. In either case, if you have, say, Bridgestone R250s on your coach, and you blow one and want to replace it with an identical R250, it is just as likely the dealer will have to order it in either size.
If you want to change tire sizes, whether or not that also involves changing wheel size, you need to be certain that whatever tire you choose can handle the load. Factors to consider are the rated load at max pressure, the pressure you will have to run to carry the load you will actually have, and any derating necessary due to speed (some tires require load derating above 55, 60, or 65 MPH). So the advice to weigh your coach wheel-by-wheel is really mandatory if you wish to change.
If your existing rims are 8.25", you can fit the 12R22.5 you have now, or the 11R22.5, which will have a lower load rating, and likely more revs/mile. If your rims are 9" (unlikely, but people have been known to change them), then the 11R22.5 is not an approved fitment. If you go to the larger wheel, you will be looking at 11R24.5, which will have a load rating closer to the 12R22.5 you have now.
Other factors to consider: The 22.5 wheels give a softer ride than the 24.5. This is why many truckers use them, and it is why buses were almost exclusively fitted with this diameter wheel. As has already been mentioned, you need to pay attention also to revs/mile, which vary among tire models even in the same size, and will vary more if you change wheels.
Also, tires with higher load ratings can (and should) be run with lower air pressure. So even in 12R22.5, a Load Range H tire will likely need less pressure than a Load Range G, for example. (Load range has a direct relationship to the older "Ply Rating" system, which has nothing at all to do with the number of plys in the tire, and a close relationship to the actual rated load in pounds. Note the rating is different for single vs. dual applications for tires which can be dualled.) Lower air pressure will, again, mean a smoother ride, and may also mean improved traction in soft surfaces. This is the other reason you need your correct weights -- so you can inflate the tires according to the manufacturers' "load and inflation" tables.
Lastly, choosing tires can be daunting. There are lots of brands, but only a handful of manufacturers. There is a lot of unsupported anecdotal "information" floating around, including on these boards ("don't buy brand X; brand Y is best, never rotate tires to the opposite side, etc.). You probably can't go wrong with any of the major brands -- just make sure you get fresh product as shown on the DOT code (it is not uncommon to get "new" tires that were manufactured two or even three years ago). And shop around -- pricing differences can be high between different dealers, even right across the street.
HTH.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
isn't the 11r22.5 the common low profile 22.5 for trucks?
the 12r22.5 is the suposed rare to find on the road tire becuase it is a bus tire primarly now days
According to what I've learned over the years, the 70-75 metric sizes are the lo-pros.
295R7522.5
275R7522.5
The 11.00R22.5 is a full sized tire (80% width to height ratio).
Another BIG reason trucking companies went to 22.5" rubber is that the FET on them is a whole bunch less than on 24.5" tires.
Trism, CFI, CF, UPS, CR England, Transport America, Celedon, Swift, Werner, Schneider, JB Hunt, among most others, all use lo-pro 22.5's.
Dallas
Doug, here in the west the 12r 22.5 and the metric size of this tire are easy to find at a good price because they are used on the log trucks on the steering axle
Luvrbus, I was being a smartass when I said that about being rare.
theya re not rare...granted your Road service guy may not have one on hand but unless your in BFE ( email me if your not sensative and I'l give you that meaning if you don't know it) you should easily be able to find one, perhaps not the brand/ tread design you run...but the correct size withing 24 hours.
thats why buses carry spares. get a flat......replace with spare and arrange for another tire down the road a bit and keep on busin"
My understanding is pretty much the same as Dallas'. The LP 24.5 replaces the regular 22.5 series 80 (Series 80 tires aren't marked as such because they were the standard for years, both for cars and trucks) and the two are roughly the same diameter.
The 75 in 295R 75 22.5 means the distance from the tread to the wheel is 75% of the max tire width.
The 295R7522.5 is very close to 12" max width, the 275R7522.5 is slightly more than 11".
It does surprise me that Series 75s are considered LP because there isn't much difference between 75% and 80% (9.6" to 8.8"). I would have guessed that a true LP tire would be in the 65-70 Series range. Some auto tires are down to 50 Series, maybe lower from what I've seen on the road!
As far as ride quality goes-my bus originally had 12R-22.5 with steel wheels on it. I took my 11R-24.5's on Alcoa's to my mechanic in Washington to have switched. The mechanic, that has worked on too many buses to count said that the 11R-24.5's were the smoothest, best riding tire he's ever felt.
As to the 12R-22.5, the only truck I've seen them on is a heavy haul, logger, fire truck, dump truck (all local type trucks), but have never seen them on an over the road truck. The main reason that truckers are using the standard low profile 22.5 (295/75R-22.5 or 275/80R-22.5)is because of the higher trailers and having to have a lower frame height. The standard low profile 22.5's run cooler, cost less, get better fuel mileage than the 24.5's-mainly because the tire manufacturers are not spending any time on them. The USA and Canada are the only countries that use 24.5-22.5 is the standard world wide. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: Sean on July 03, 2007, 04:14:01 PM
Other factors to consider: The 22.5 wheels give a softer ride than the 24.5. This is why many truckers use them, and it is why buses were almost exclusively fitted with this diameter wheel. As has already been mentioned, you need to pay attention also to revs/mile, which vary among tire models even in the same size, and will vary more if you change wheels.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Sean I very seldom find anything in your posts that I find a need to question or that I disagree with, but this is one I must do both on! The wheels themselves don't make a differance about the ride, it's the tires! And also if you'll check specs on the Eagle buses (which a notably some of the best riding buses ever built! Especially since they didn't have fancy air ride systems!), I think you'll discover they came out almost exclusily with 24,5"s. At least all of them I've ever worked on, been around, or seen listed for sale had 24.5"s. So if 22.5"s are so much better riding tire, why do Eagles have the best ride there is? (with exclusion of there successors Setra's which were/are both products of Kassboro & Setra has that Eagle ride beat with it's independant front air ride suspension!). Also I used to be a trucker and I always either spec'd my trucks with 24.5" tall rubber, or if it came with it I took it and had it switched! And all my LARGE CARS rode like dreams! FWIW BK ;D
A side note to Busted Knuckle's comment on "fancy air suspension"- actually the rubber torsilastic suspension that Eagle and Flex used is alot more complicated from a design point and also for working on them. In my opinion, there is nothing more simple than an air suspension system-usually a straight axle with three or four trailing arms and one cross positioning arms, two or four air bags per axle and a leveling valve with air supply. Just ask someone that has rebushed and rebagged an air suspension system compared to re rubbering the torsilastic and re bushing it! Good Luck, TomC
I tried 11R22.5's on the steer on my bus and found the smaller size tire also lowers your ground clearance which may not matter to some if you only run on the hiway and go to nice modern parks but i like to go to some more primitive parks and area's . Jerry
For a simple system, I think my leaf springs have both your torsilastic and your airbags beat.
Sure, it may ride a little rougher, but...
10.) Rebushing is a snap.
9.) I don't have to wait for it to air up.
8.) Leaf springs don't leak.
7.) Leaf springs don't need plates welded on top of the airbeam to keep the air inside.
6.) If I break a leaf, most likely I can still go down the road to a safe place without wearing out a tire.
5.) Leaf springs don't need to be recalibrated.
4.) Leaf Springs don't rot.
3.) Leaf springs don't have complicated leveling systems.
2.) Leaf springs don't "porpoise" when traversing city streets.
And the #1 reason leafsprings are better than the others...
The bus won't squash me when I crawl under it!
;D
All valid points-but it's da ride, da ride! Good Luck, TomC
Fred, thanks for bringing this up. Some folks have made points here that hadn't been discussed before (to my knowledge), and it's helped me.
Since my health is now letting me get back to work on the coach, the first thing I need is six tires. Pieces of information - it's a PD-4107, total weight under 26,000 lb so its a light bus. We both still work, so the tread life isn't an issue - the sun will get to them before the highway does. Currently, coach has 12Rx22.5's. Most driving will be highway, improved surfaces - we're not planning any rock climbing or gully crossing.
So, here's my plan for tomorrow (Thursday) or Friday - unless someone here says I'm really off base. Calls to local tire shops (Dallas, TX area) found a place with the best prices, also had been recommended by the local shop of a national bus sales/maintenance organization.
Recommended options and prices from them are:
Firestone FS560, 12Rx22.5 - a Regional tire but with 75 MPH top speed, 487 Revs/Mile (8 RPM lower than Russ' 495 - a little better top speed but a little taller for first and reverse) - price before tax, mounting, etc. $302.
Firestone FS 590 Plus, 11Rx22.5 - a Highway tire, 503 Revs/Mile (8 RPM higher than the 495 - a little off top speed and fuel economy, but nicer on the clutch in first and reverse). I also suspect that the fuel economy will be a wash (versus the 495, maybe not the 487) if it lets me delay downshifting on hills. Price, before tax, etc. is $276.44, probably a savings of around $28 each with tax, or $168 total.
As of yesterday, this major local tire supplier had 8 12R's in stock, but 56 11R's - which tells another part of the story. Tire guy also mentioned that the 11R's will be easier to find on the road.
So, my decision - thanks in part to all the earlier posters in this and other tire threads - is to go with the 11R Highway tires. Price saving, availablility, are factors, but one of the deciders for me is the Highway vs. the Regional tire. By the way, why Firestone? - best price among brands - and I've run fleets of Firestones in transit service with no noticeable difference to other brands.
Now, to be fair, this may cost me more net money if I end up with seven tires - since I probably shouldn't use one of the existing 12R's for a spare. I'm hoping to find a used tire there that can be a spare.
Now, that has been another discussion - but maybe someone here has a thought. If 11R22.5's are so popular, does that suggest that I shouldn't carry a spare? Again, a piece of information - I don't plan to change my own tires, here or on the road. My preferred method of removing stud-piloted rear duals is to find out if either Visa or Mastercard is accepted. Yes, I have the tools and the knowledge if it's an emergency. My first job in the bus industry was sweeping and fueling buses, but that also ended up as somewhat of a mechanic's helper - including breaking down and building up split rim bus tires with sledgehammers and bars. However, I'm not in my teens anymore, and I've become a little too familiar with the ins and outs of health insurance - to want to take the risk. If I'm the only qualified driver, and hurt my back by lifting a tire, it'll cost a lot more than it would to call the road service folks.
I know this was a long post, but I wanted to explain my thought pattern - in case it helps someone else think through the options.
So, to all - thanks for the help.
Arthur
Quote from: Runcutter on July 04, 2007, 07:48:28 AM
. . . . . Now, that has been another discussion - but maybe someone here has a thought. If 11R22.5's are so popular, does that suggest that I shouldn't carry a spare? Again, a piece of information - I don't plan to change my own tires, here or on the road. My preferred method of removing stud-piloted rear duals is to find out if either Visa or Mastercard is accepted. Yes, I have the tools . . . . .
Arthur
The need to carry a spare depends on each individual's circumstances or comfort level.
Some of my thoughts on needing to carry a spare:
- If you intend to stay on improved roads, risk of needing a spare is low.
- Can you afford to loose a day or 2 to get a tire replaced during your travels?
- If you don't use the spare, it will age faster than one in use & you may find it unsuitable for service several years from now - time does fly when you're having fun ;D
- Can you afford the expense of buying a tire while traveling?
- Can you afford the cost of carrying a spare - lost storage, buying a tire you may never use, etc.
- Can a single tire on the rear safely carry the weight to drive to the next open service station?
I'm sure there are more factors to consider, but you get the idea.
I don't carry a spare, nor did I when I was truck driving (very few trucks carry spares) even though I was an irregular truck driver with being in all parts of the country-many times off truck routes. I also have the Doran wireless tire monitor that will alarm you if the tires go down beyond a certain point. At which time you can pull over and find out why the tire is running low. Most times the tire will have picked up a nail or such, where you can just add air to the tire to get you to the next tire service place (You do have an air hose and hook up to use the air system of the bus for tire inflation, don't you?!). If you have a tire failure or blow out (which is very rare if the tire pressures are up to specifications-most blow outs are caused from low tire pressure which causes a hot running tire that fails) you can just call a mobile tire man (of which are in just about every town) to bring out a new tire. I think you're making the correct choice on going with the 11R's. You may loose some top speed, but you'll have a little better startability, and if you're like most of us, don't go barreling down the road up against the governor, you're fuel mileage might actually be better, since you won't be working the engine quite so hard (but I bet you won't even notice). Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on July 03, 2007, 11:45:39 PM
... The wheels themselves don't make a differance about the ride, it's the tires!
Yes, absolutely... it's the tires. But if you look at the 11R24.5 vs. the 12R2.5, you will see that for nearly the same overall diameter, you have another inch of sidewall, which gives the whole assembly more room for flex. So, it's the tires -- but the wheel, in this case, enables the better-riding tire. So, common wisdom in the coach industry is 22.5 gives you a better ride. FWIW.
Quote
And also if you'll check specs on the Eagle buses (which a notably some of the best riding buses ever built! Especially since they didn't have fancy air ride systems!),...
Actually, the Torsilastic suspension is, IMO, exactly the reason Eagles had such a great ride. Much better-riding suspension than air. That's the reason a bunch of Eagle fans are trying to bring the brand back.
That being said, Eagles don't constitute a majority of buses made, by any stretch. Even if we stick just to the US (as it has already been noted that 22.5 is the standard nearly everywhere else, including Europe and Central/South America), GM and MCI together account for the lion's share of the market, past and present, and 12R22.5 (and, more recently, 315/80R22.5) account for the majority of tires/wheels on those brands.
And, of course, Eagle is no longer (not counting the new start-up, which has yet to sell even a single bus), so virtually every parlor coach rolling off the line today has 22.5" wheels, either 8.25" or 9" in width.
Not disagreeing with anything you said -- just explaining why I said "almost exclusively" (and note, I did say "almost"). :)
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Thank uyou for all the replies .Most informative.
Like someone else on this thread I don't put a lot of miles on my bus. I use it locally a few times a year and usually have one major trip each year. Which means that my tires don't get used much BUT still deteriorate. My reason for wanting to switch to a tire that is used extensively in the trucking industry is to buy used tires more frequently. As you can appreciate I don't reqiure a lot of tread wear. I would much rather spend $100 every few years on an "almost" worn out tire than $4 or $500 on a tire that I have to get rid of thst still has 75% of the tread left.
Thanks
Fred Mc.
You might want to consider buying new tires and then selling them befor they start to weather. That is what I am trying to do. It recently cost me about $300 to upgrade up to 2 new tires.
HTH Jim
It'd be tough for me to replace tires on my bus if they were still good - I'd put it off 'just a little bit longer' & end up with tires no one wanted :(
Also, on an RV, the tires are more likely to have been abused & a trucker might not want to take a chance on something that could cost more than he saved.
If you buy used off a truck, you will be getting tires a year or 2 old.
You may have sucess in finding a smaller trucking company that would like to get a little better 'trade-in' on their tires.
Sometimes you can get lucky with the local truck tire store & they will work with you & watch for a good set of takeoffs.
Good luck.
I looked around for used tires. I'm cheap, I'm a bargin hunter and not afraid to negotiate. I tried many different places and could find nothing in used that I would spend my money on. Let alone bet my life on! I'm cheap not stupid.
I know some people seem to have better luck or maybe its skill. But from what I could find I would rather buy new.
These are steer tires I am referring to. Although I would not have bought anything I saw for any position on my bus!
If you want to save money, run near new on the front axle, and a quality (Bandag) set of matched retreads on the rear. Most of us do not run at 80mph for hours on end, and since heat it the big enemy hear, retreads on the rear would be fine. It has been proven that 50% of the rubber you see on the road is from new tires. Bottom line is keeping the pressure at the required setting to avoid overheating. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: jjrbus on July 05, 2007, 07:39:54 AM
. . . .I'm cheap not stupid.
I know some people seem to have better luck or maybe its skill. But from what I could find I would rather buy new.
These are steer tires I am referring to. Although I would not have bought anything I saw for any position on my bus!
Jim, you are my kind of guy! ;D
I think luck has more to do with it than skill.
I hear 'ya. I don't think I'd want used on the steers either.
I asked the guy that hauled my bus about the used tires & he said that once you find a good guy at the the tire store (not the A$$ hole) getting the used will be easier. He also said I may have to wait a little while for the right set to come in. He even offered to change his out a little early if I was gonna buy his used - that's why I suggested a smaller outfit.
Coming from you I consider that a real compliment!! Finding a good guy at the tire store is tough when you only buy tires every 6 or 7 years!!
Quote from: jjrbus on July 05, 2007, 12:13:51 PM
Coming from you I consider that a real compliment!!
Who have you been talking to? What did they say? ;D :o 8)
You have an AWESOME coach, so I'd use that to my advantage & drive it to a tire shop & see if someone there takes interest in it. Talk to them a little & see if you 'click'. If not, try another shop. City bus garages might be a good source for tire shop references too.
City bus garages generally are on leased rubber now days and only deal with their leasing rep.
Only problem with used rubber is you do not know the care of the tire....perhaps it gust took a sizeable curb hit.
". . . . perhaps it just took a sizeable curb hit"
That's true, but then it would match my other tires very well ;D
If I get the rims I'm hoping to get, I'll be looking for 20" tires. I doubt I'll find those sitting on a local shelf.
The things we do for vanity :o
Quote from: kyle4501 on July 05, 2007, 04:52:21 PM
". . . . perhaps it just took a sizeable curb hit"
That's true, but then it would match my other tires very well ;D
If I get the rims I'm hoping to get, I'll be looking for 20" tires. I doubt I'll find those sitting on a local shelf.
The things we do for vanity :o
Don't ya need to get 'm on the road before ya put those fancy ghetto wheels on 'm ? ! ? LOL
Damn BK, that was cold. If I wanted to hear abuse, I'd listen to my wife. :o
I don't know about your buses, but mine need wheels & tires to move once they hit the road. ;D
Besides, don't rush me, I'm pacing myself. Wouldn't want to get burned out 'ya know. Besides, I'm having too much fun collecting them!
Sorry! :( I really didn't mean to be cold! Just blunt! I really can't see anyone wanting to go back to 20"s these days! Except all those "Bling, Bling (look at me) - Ghetto rides" ya see putt'n 'round everywhere these days with 1-2 inch side walls on 20-24" wheels, clobbered up so high to get the wheels to fit that they'd cause you to rupture a kidney if ya went over 3 mph! Ya know $10,000.00 (+) dollars worth of wheel/tires on a $700.00 car! I really meant it as a joke (sorta, unless that's really what you had in mind spending $ on B4 making them road worthy but hey it's yer $, an yer buses! Do it yer way!) not to be harsh.
Hey Kyle,
Ummm, I just tossed two 20" split rim wheels with Kelly Highway tires when we left Honeydew.
I still have the 4 on the back of the bus though. 80% tread or better. As soon as I can find some decent 22.5's with good used rubber.... that I can afford, you can have them.
I like my split rims and wouldn't get rid of them but the bias ply tires cause that annoying "Thump, Thump, Thump" for at least 100 miles until they warm up and lose the flat spots.
Dallas
Michelin still has a XZE2 that is available from a 9.00 to a 12.00 width in steel radial. But why would you want to run split rim tube type tires? If it is for the time element from the 50's for your 4501, this would be one area I'd by all means pass on. If you think the 12R-22.5 was hard to find on the road, the XZE2 will be even worse-Michelin only makes the one tire in tube size! And-they are only rated to 65mph. Please-keep it safe and stay with a proven modern tire that is currently available in the tubeless style. Good Luck, TomC
I agree, use a modern tire, until you get your scenic to concourse level restoration and start showing it there is no need to be that correct, besides not even a scenic nut is going to fault you on using modern tires
Quote from: kyle4501 on July 05, 2007, 04:52:21 PM
". . . . perhaps it just took a sizeable curb hit"
If I get the rims I'm hoping to get, I'll be looking for 20" tires. I doubt I'll find those sitting on a local shelf.
The things we do for vanity :o
I'm pre-selling tickets to kyle4501's "HOOPDE SCENICRUISER MUSEUM" opening simultaneously with the release of his new Rap 8-track "Hound in da hood" :D
My MC-8 came with 11R-22.5's on the front and 295/75R-22.5 on the drive and tag axles. I believe 295mm = 11.6". Would having 'slightly' wider tires than original on the front cause any problems? I'd like to have all the same size tires and that would mean putting 295's on the front most likely. Also, what tire pressure would one use? The plate in the bus has pressures for 11's and I believe 12's, but definitely not 295's. Should I go by the max psi listed on the tire?
David
David- the 295's are the standard of the industry now-even more so than the 11R's. You'll sit about an inch lower with the 295's over the 11R's. Both tire sizes have just about identical weight carrying capability, so that's not a problem-especially in our case where we are not even close to max carrying. My bus for example is 5,000lb away from max gvw in full travelling form with both my wife and I inside and full tanks. Compare that to most sticks and staples that are usually just a few hundred pounds from the factory BEFORE loading!
As to tire pressure, please get your bus weighed on a truck scale (CAT scales are at many truck stops) by axle when your bus is in travelling form with full tanks. I can look up the tire pressures for you in my tire books if you'd like. For instance, I weigh 10,500lb front, and 20,500lb rear. While the tire inflation guide says I could run 80psi in front and 85psi in rear, I just run 90psi all around for a little extra cushion-but not hard enough to make the bus ride like a forklift. Good Luck, TomC
Hey BK, no offense taken, I was just funnin' back ;)
As for spending $$$, don't forget that I'm the nut that was given 3 scenicruisers! I can wait for the rims to be tossed my way.
Dallas, let me know when you need those rims hauled off, I'd welcome an excuse to visit with you & Bubbagal ;D I may even let that newbeemc9 feller tag along. . . We can have a good laugh when he tries to break-dance to "Hound in da hood" ;D ;D ;D
BTW, wouldn't I have to actually drive my bus to hear the "Thump, Thump, Thump" ? :o
The reason I want to run 20" splits is because I like the look of them. They look 'cleaner' & the tire looks better to me. I've already done some looking around & the 20" is available - If you don't mind waiting.
Quote from: kyle4501 on July 06, 2007, 10:16:19 AM
BTW, wouldn't I have to actually drive my bus to hear the "Thump, Thump, Thump" ? :o
The reason I want to run 20" splits is because I like the look of them. They look 'cleaner' & the tire looks better to me. I've already done some looking around & the 20" is available - If you don't mind waiting.
On the Thump, Thump, Thump! There are several ways to accomplish this! If ya wanna make it where folks outside the bus hear it louder than inside then you just drive it on flat tires! LOL! And if ya just wanna make it go Thump, Thump, Thump to where it annoys those inside and out put about 4 concert stack speakers driven by a guitar amp in the luggage bays! LOL!
As for the 20" split aluminums ? those do look good! I never realized they even made a 20" split aluminum wheel! the only 20" wheel I ever had any experience with was the 10:00-20 Dayton wheels we had on our dump trucks back in the '80's and B4 (much B4! LOL!) I have seen a few 20" "BUD" style split wheels also! And I have always hated split wheels! PERIOD! But I have to admit those do look nice!
David, that might explain your baggage door damage.
that bus would have come from MCi with 12rx22.5's all the way around, the 11's are a bit lower profile and the 295's even moreso.
Kyle, do you have a shop that will work on the splits.
We don't have anyone who will anymore in central PA.
Point of interest. I am not sure when they stoped, but the Silversides was delivered with a greyhound proprietary tire size, supposedly to deter tire theft.
Kyle, do you have a shop that will work on the splits.
Yep, ME. I've even got the tire cage too. To me, it's not that big of a deal to change the splits.
We don't have anyone who will anymore in central PA.
Yet one more reason to not live there. ;D There's several places around here that said they will change them.
We sometimes do odd things for vanity. My attitude towards the splits may change, but that is the way I want to go for now.
If I had listened to the nay-sayers, I'd have never bought a scenicruiser. I liked it then & still do. As for those that said that parts were unavailable & super expensive, MY experience doesn't back that up. Sure, some stuff is difficult to get & some you have to have custom made - BUT - that has provided some of the most fun so far AND allowed me to meet a lot of GREAT people (& a few not so great).
Enjoy your hobby in a way that brings you the most rewards!
We sometimes do odd things for vanity. My attitude towards the splits may change, but that is the way I want to go for now
good answer!
and if you have people that will work on the splits and can get tires.....go for it.
what do 20's cost these days?
what do 20's cost these days?
Same as other sizes - TOO MUCH !
Seriousy tho, it's been a while since I looked, but they were in the same $$ range from what I remember.
I'm gonna wait till all else is done before I buy tires, don't want to hit the road with new tires past their expiration date
The new tires went on the 4107 yesterday. In Dallas, TX, ended up with Firestone FS560 Plus, went with 11R22.5's, for a total of $2,050. All six, mounted - fronts only dynamically balanced. I'll see how she rides to see if I want to have the rears balanced -- only $22.50 per tire for balancing.
I'd mentioned earlier what the thought pattern was. The 12R22.5's turn below the 495 revs/mile, more top speed but making first and reverse (stick) a little taller. The 11R's turn at 503 revs/mile, a little gentler on starting. I normally drive at or below the speed limit,so I don't need a high speed coach - and smooth driving fosters fuel economy. 11R's more available on the road. The original price for 12R's (from the vendor I used) was just under $2400 - so I saved about $350. Interestingly, the $2050, if divided by six tires is $341 average cost per tire.
But now, I have to recalibrate my speedometer (if it can be recalibrated). Since I normally travel with a GPS, I can turn it to a function that gives me an accurate speed readout - and that'll give me the rough offset.
In other good news, I haven't started the coach since February. The only reason I started her then was to move from one storage slot to a much better one (and it was fun doing so just 2-3 weeks after surgery). The last 2-3 times we've been over to work on the interior, I'd hooked up a battery charger to the coach start batteries. Yesterday, turned battery switches on (yes, I'd checked fluids, etc.) - and she started better after sitting for five months than my Lincoln does after sitting at the airport for five days. Rrr, Rrr, fire. I guess she was bored with the view, and wanted to get on the road. I finished the pretrip, and off we went.
Kyle, my spare is on a 20" split rim. I intend to pick up a new rim, and put a used 11R22.5 on it (good takeoffs were available for $100, so I was going to purchase one if I had the proper wheel in the spare compartment. I don't know when I'll get to it, but you can have the 20" split when I do - although shipping may be pricy.
Thanks to all here for helping me make the final decision.
Arthur