I have been planning on a propane cooktop (cooktop only, no oven) because I like cooking on gas burners as opposed to electric. But I am curious why it is safe to use one inside when two burner portable propane units warn that they are for outdoor use only. What makes the one safe indoors and the other not?
Would seem to be a contradiction as what about the two and three burner RV cooktops??? I know they have four burner ones too. Maybe it's the amount of heat that they produce as some of the RV types take forever to cook onythuing. Jerry
I think because people assume you will use a vent over the stove. I have or had a propane stove in my house and of course it had a vent. Don't know for sure but it could also be the small outdoor stove mfg are just covering their you know what.
ED
MCI 7
Just my 2 cents worth
Actually I didn't word that very well. I am planning on a 3-4 burner cooktop. But it is just a concern to me as to whether they are really safe when the camping versions put so many warnings not to use them inside. I'm more concerned about any potential CO issues than fire because I can protect wood exposures with metal or ceramic tile if needed. But I've understood that propane doesn't pose a CO risk (i.e. propane forklifts used in warehouses, propane floor buffers in stores, etc.). And of course there are many propane cooktops in many thousand S&S RV's, so I probably shouldn't be concerned. But the contradiction just bothers me.
Quote from: edvanland on June 10, 2007, 05:01:42 PM
Don't know for sure but it could also be the small outdoor stove mfg are just covering their you know what.
Ed, I think you may be onto something there. They may just be protecting themselves from the idiot that places it right next to curtains or on the sofa.
On the other hand, Coleman doesn't seem to be too concerned about dangerous heat below or to the sides of their propane camp stoves when they promote it with a photo like this (not that I think they really had the stove on for the photo shoot ;) ):
EDIT: I just zoomed on the burner and to my surprise, they did have the burner on for the photo shoot. I'm impressed.
Quote from: HighTechRedneck on June 10, 2007, 05:17:54 PM
But I've understood that propane doesn't pose a CO risk (i.e. propane forklifts used in warehouses, propane floor buffers in stores, etc.).
Well I'm no expert, but I know this is not the case.
Any combustion at all produces CO. This much I do know. If you use a propane stove for hours with a couple of burners going, unvented, there
will be CO problems.
In fact, in one of the fairly recent BCMags in one of the 'Systems Analysis' articles on ventilation, Myers points this out specifically if I remember right.
I would imagine that the mfgr. of the portables is doing some cya, and the people most likely to do this probably need a strong warning to prevent them from doing something they didn't anticipate.
Chuck, you are absolutely right. Here is an eye opener story:
Man dies of carbon monoxide poisoning traced to propane oven (http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/04/man_dies_of_carbon_monoxide_po.html)
Well, I know there are detectors for CO and for Propane. But all things considered, to heck with my preference of cooking on a gas flame, I will go all electric in the bus. I will use a camp stove outdoors when it is permitted and good weather, electric when indoors.
And a little more on the forklift and floor buffer use I mentioned:
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Associated with Use of LPG-Powered (Propane) Forklifts in Industrial Settings (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4849a2.htm)
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Associated with a Propane-Powered Floor Burnisher (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00021872.htm)
I got one of those induction cooktops and will use the propane outdoors also Jerry
I have a three burner stove/oven. I like the three burner since the front burner is bigger than the rest, bigger also than any of the 4 burner stoves. I have an unvented electric hood over the stove that blows out into the room. Then right above is a Fantastic fan that is always running when cooking. Works well and the cabinets don't get coated (we don't fry). If I were to do it again, I would get a 3 burner propane cooktop with a microwave, convection oven above. We have used the conventional propane stove about 5 times in 12 years. Good Luck, TomC
I just had to respond to this post, because I went through the exact same thought process that High Tech Redneck" is going through, and I had to tell you what we did.
I originally installed a RV style three burner cook top and put a convection microwave underneath in the same cabinet. Our bus is a PD3751 (Silversides) and the ceiling are quite low, so I did install a roof vent right over the cooking area with a Fantastic fan assembly. Like HTR we don't use our coach much, but when I did use the stove top the propane took forever to cook anything. Forget about ever boiling a pot of water for pasta. Besides, the heat was absolutely unbearable (and that was with the vent open). Then came the straw that broke the camels back. We went camping with our grandkids and it rained, we were all stuck inside the bus and I had to cook something. It was like being in a hot gas chamber. I knew I had to change, so I did my home work and this is what I came up with.
I sold the cook top to another bus nut. I took out the old counter top and replaced it with a new , one piece counter top with NO hole for the cook top. I bought an induction cook top that sits on the counter top and stores away when not in use. Why one do you say? Because in reality, almost all of our cooking is done outside, where I have a complete kitchen set-up. I don't use propane, I have three butane cook tops (the type that are used by restaurants for Sunday brunches at the omelet station). They are extremely hot and can boil anything. Plus, because they are butane they can be used inside if it rains. (I actually got started with these cook tops buying supplies during Hurricane Wilma) I have a hot little barb que for grilling and I have a super propane cook top that produces over 90,000 btu's of heat , and I use that for big parties and meals.
This last Memorial Day weekend we went away with the bus and I set up the induction cook top and set it to cook some vegetables, I put the skillet on the cook top turned it on walked toward the door and it was already bubbling. The great thing is......with induction cooking there is ABOSLUTELY NO ambient heat around the cook top. Just the food gets hot. As a matter of fact you can take the pan off the stove and place your hand on the cook top ( after boiling some water, let's say) right on the cook top, right away and it will be cool. That is because induction cooking uses magnetic impulses to cook with not heat like we know it.
Our meal was prepared in only a few minutes, there was no extra heat in the cabin, and momma was happy. And you know what it's like if momma ain't happy.
If I had the money I would install a built in induction two or three burner cook top, but for now we are thrilled with what we have.
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
Dave Siegel
3751 Silversides
Naples, Florida
HTR, I didn't mean to scare you off of propane altogether, just wanted to point out that any combustible, whether portable or built-in, has to be vented in one way or another. Heck I have a three burner that I've never even hooked up yet. :)
Dave, your induction testimonial is pretty darn convincing. Hmmm. I understood those are mostly/all 240v? Not that that would be a problem, just something to think about when I get around to a generator someday.
But I am curious why it is safe to use one inside when two burner portable propane units warn that they are for outdoor use only. What makes the one safe indoors and the other not?
RV LP ranges DO come with a warning regarding CO. Somewhere you will find a sticker or some such that says something like: WARNING, not for comfort heating. In reality this means [and in some cases, states] that dangerous levels of CO may be generated by using the stove burners instead of the furnace to warm the place up.
Just FYI
Dale
Hey High,
I bought a brand new 3 burner that I have decided not to use. I definitly wanted gas over electric, but then I did some research on induction cooking. That is the way I am going to go now. ya might look at it, but if you are set on propane, I can make ya a deal on a new top! :)
Let me know!
Chaz
Quote from: Chaz on June 11, 2007, 11:03:29 AM
... but if you are set on propane, I can make ya a deal on a new top! :)
Let me know!
Chaz
Thanks, Chaz, but I think I am going all electric too. One less thing to go wrong. ;)
Then DEFINITELY look at induction!!!!!!!!!!! Check it out here: http://theinductionsite.com/proandcon.shtml It's a good site.
Chaz
I'm glad that I have stirred the interest in induction cooking again. You are all right. There is nothing like electric cooking but induction cooking takes it over the edge. I found 3 burners built-in tops for around $700 that have no knobs protruding, it uses a touch pad sensor in the ceramic glass top. That burner is 240 volts. Then I have found 2 burner models that have control knobs and they are 110 volt.(Good for those 30 amp hook-ups.)
Both of those are out of my budget for now so I use a plug in 110 volt model I bought on e-bay new for about $120 delivered. It is the Spurentown?? model. Here is the e-bay listing number: 300118045857 just put that number in on e-bay and it will take you right to it. $85 + $25 shipping. (It even comes with a neat pan to cook with.)
Good cooking to you.
Dave Siegel
Quote from: Dave Siegel on June 11, 2007, 12:12:34 PM
(It even comes with a neat pan to cook with.)
Do induction cook tops require special pans?
Induction cook tops do require special pans. No aluminum for example. But then again aluminum cookware is not good for your health either. I found that good cookware with heavy bottoms don't work to well either. Just a thin weigh metal pan, can be the porcelain type, they just need to be metallic and magnetic, or the type that a magnet will stick to. Cast iron will work but they are usually too thick and require a much longer cook time.
Thin stainless works very well, even though stainless is not magnetic?? Go figure? No glass corning ware either.
Dave
My pans are mostly the stainless steel with copper bottom. I wonder if they would work with an induction cooktop.
I would try. I found that pans with heavy bottoms took longer to heat things using induction. Thin pans like the one that comes with the unit are very efficient. Once you see it you can understand better.
Another cool thing about induction is if you have a pan on the cook top that comes to a boil, when you reduce the heat to simmer let's say, the heat change and reaction in the cooking food is instant. You are far less likely to burn food with this system, and conversely if you do.......it really gets burned.
Dave
A look at the site mentioned shows that thet are mostly talking about residential or commercial units with elements 0f 2-3.2 kw. I think the little 1200 watt portables would have the same drawbacks as a 1200 watt hot plate, notably not enough power.
We definitely like to cook pasta and especially boiled crab. I think it would have to be outside on propane. Even the RV propane cooktops and ranges have pretty small burners when it comes to "cooking large".
My next bus will have a residential gas stove in it, with a large, powerful vent to remove the excess heat.
Here is a review I found on the Target website;
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/ref=cm_reviews_dp_seemore/602-0892107-1038202?ie=UTF8&coliid=&frombrowse=1&alt%5Fview=custReviews&asin=B0009EXY28#R2WURN2ERA1RVS
I purchased this burner because I am stuck with a lousy rental electric stove, and I wanted something quick to heat that I could use on the countertop or table, and I liked the idea that the induction burners cool quickly, for safety's sake. This burner does come up to your chosen temperature (low is listed as 120F, high as 440F) almost instantly, making it as responsive as the gas stove I wish I had - but it truly does go cool to the the touch 30 seconds after you turn it off. It's compact and only weighs a few pounds, so it truly is a portable option for use anywhere you've got electricity.
As for how it cooks, I've found that it runs to the hot side even when set to "medium," so I have to adjust the heat up and down a bit as I cook a dish, which is not difficult with the easy-to-use touch pad on the front. But even set on the highest level, this burner took perhaps half an hour to bring a few quarts of water to boil for pasta, an experiment I won't repeat (I moved the pot to the stove).
And a friendly warning about magnetic induction burners, since this isn't made clear in the description: You can ONLY use cookware on it that is made of magnetzed metal. No anodized aluminum like, and not all stainless steel is magnetized. If a refrigerator magnet sticks strongly to the bottom of the pan, you're A-OK. All cast iron and enameled cast iron works great, but double-check your stainless tri-ply (some high-end brands, like Cuisinart, don't work).
Lots of the great cookware Target sells works perfectly well on the SR-1851, I'm happy to report. I'm so glad I got this - it's a great improvement over electric coils for stir-fries and the like. I can understand why powerful induction cooktops are very popular throughout Europe, considering what this little table-top model can do.
Len
Hi Len glad you chimed in. That 1200 watts when used in induction cooking is really hot and really fast. I find I can wake up my food by starting on high for about 10-15 seconds then I turn it to low/medium and cook from that temp range. The 1200 watt high setting is powerful enough to heat a pot big enough to cook a pound of pasta at at a high roll.
But you are missing the entire purpose, there is NO ambient heat. NO extra heat in the cabin, no heat at the cook top, nothing that you can get burned on. In a small space like our coaches, that is very important.
Here is a link to the built-in models.....just for comparison. Like I said they are a little pricey but well worth the little extra if you are starting from new. Be sure to get the entire line of link in.
http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/JSP.detailmain/Kenyon_Horizon_2_Burner_Cooktop/itemID.11263/
itemType.Product/iProductID.11263/qx/shopping/product/B42501.htm?mtcpromotion=NextTag%3ECooking
%3EBuilt-In%20Cooktops%3EB42501
Dave
P.S. I cooked a 3 gallon "Lo Country Boil" on ours and it was magnificent. I did it outside though because the pot was so big.
Len,
Something like this http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/CTG212FDW.html?mv_pc=dt (http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/CTG212FDW.html?mv_pc=dt) might work well for you, too. It's definitely not a residential stove, but who wants the heat of a gas oven in a bus? I'll probably have one of these plus the induction cooktop in mine. For now, I'll use a 2 burner electric hot plate like I do in our camper. It heats much faster than the gas 3 burner cooktop. I really don't want to run the generator just to have A/C, lights, and a burner on all at one time (on a 30 amp service).
David